Orwo colour film teaser?

[AgX]

Frankly I don't understand the craze for the (relatively) expensive low-fi colour films especially when they're invariably scanned and not wet-printed.

I stick to the analogue way. And yes, even I am interested in such films if they gain something I cannot achieve with custom treatment of "high-fi" films, or only at higher costs. And a low ISO color film in the meaning of low graininess and high resolution I find interesting too in case of a taking-film sensitisation.
What I dislike is a misleading buzz created by manufacturers or vendors.

Maybe there comes the day when marketing people split their campaign: plain neutral for us and the big buzz for the others.

 

[Ten301]

I’ll never understand the attraction of most of the ‘boutique’ films that have surfaced over the past few years, but that’s just me. If others enjoy them and they help to keep interest in film alive, so be it.

Some, such as Lomo’s Metropolis, are a bit interesting, probably because it’s not that far ‘out there’ from normal, and I can understand the interest in using ECN-2 cine film in still cameras. I’ve put my order in for the new ORWO film, which I plan to expose at EI 250 and process in ECN-2, regardless of what ORWO states in its marketing.

 

[Agulliver]

A lot of us on these forums *are* too old and/or too stuck in our ways. And many of these products are simply not aimed at us...and guess what? We are but a tiny proportion of those using film today.

As for this new ORWO film, it is not yet clear exactly what they're going to offer to cine film users and still camera users. They're stating that the colour neg film will be available in 8mm, 16mm, 35mm and 65mm. That's a lot of formats from something used mostly by amateurs and students to full on professional movies. I can't see the latter being C41 under any circumstances. However, those of us with Lomo tanks for 8mm and 16mm could conceivably process in C41 if we chose.

The sample shots on the ORWO website...which are getting better....it's stated they were processed in C41. Not modified C41, not removing remjet then performing C41 process...but C41. Which is interesting. If ORWO and their partners have the ability to produce a two versions of the same film, one C41 and one ECN-2 (ie one without the remjet, I guess) that's quite useful.

Will it be better than Kodak? Probably not. But I am not going to pooh-pooh something that looks promising. Supply of Kodak colour film is sporadic. It doesn't have to be better than Kodak if there's no Kodak film around. But it does have to be sufficiently good for most people's needs. It is looking better judging by the sample images. Looks viable now. But I am still curious as to what it is, what exactly will be made available across various formats.

I'm interested for sure in something in 8mm camera spools that is cheaper than the current colour negative offerings (typically £50 per spool). As long as I can get a lab to process it, or....interestingly perhaps, I could potentially do C41 myself. I'm potentially interested in 135 colour negative film that can be processed by a C41 mini lab, especially given that Kodak and Fuji availability is sporadic. Though it would have to be a comparable price. Not necessarily cheaper or even the same...but comparable.

 

[MattKing]

If ORWO and their partners have the ability to produce a two versions of the same film, one C41 and one ECN-2 (ie one without the remjet, I guess) that's quite useful.

FWIW, it is merely a coincidence that the current ECN-2 film stocks also rely on remjet for anti-halation. Remjet happens to be a good solution for anti-halation, static control and lubrication when one is running film at fairly high speed through movie cameras.
You could have ECN-2 film without remjet without any effect on the ECN-2 process.
And you could certainly have remjet on non-ECN-2 films - Kodachrome being the most common example.

 

[Ten301]

FWIW, it is merely a coincidence that the current ECN-2 film stocks also rely on remjet for anti-halation. Remjet happens to be a good solution for anti-halation, static control and lubrication when one is running film at fairly high speed through movie cameras.
You could have ECN-2 film without remjet without any effect on the ECN-2 process.
And you could certainly have remjet on non-ECN-2 films - Kodachrome being the most common example.

ORWO could simply be making a run of the same film, minus the remjet backing, for the 35mm still loads. So in effect it would be the same thing Cinestill sells as C41 process films, except Cinestill (I assume) has to buy Vision from Kodak with the remjet and then remove it, whereas ORWO, as manufacturer and seller, could just manufacture a run without the remjet from the start.

As someone mentioned in this thread, it seems a bit odd that ORWO specifically notes that the samples were processed in C41 if C41 is indeed the film’s native process. It almost seems as if they’re trying a little too hard to say, “See, it looks great cross-processed in C41!” Also, as Agfa XT320 was a tungsten-balanced film, we don’t know if they’ve stuck with that and how the examples were manipulated, or they’ve updated it to be a true daylight-balanced film. That’s another odd unknown: why would ORWO produce a high speed daylight-balanced film for the pro cine market? There’s no purpose for that to exist. So either they have played with the balance of the still load film and it is a bit different than the cine, or ORWO’s not being quite as forthcoming as to what went into achieving the results in daylight in their latest samples.

 

[MattKing]

Recent batches of Cinestill film have been supplied to Cinestill by Eastman Kodak without any remjet.
Cinestill must buy a lot!
The halation comes no extra charge

 

[runswithsizzers]

Yes this brings us to the main philosophical question of the 2020s decade. When does marketing become outright old-fashioned lying?

pentaxuser

Thus, it has always been.

 

[Ten301]

Recent batches of Cinestill film have been supplied to Cinestill by Eastman Kodak without any remjet.
Cinestill must buy a lot!
The halation comes no extra charge

Interesting. That’s good to know. I know Cinestill sometimes had QC issues with earlier batches due to their remjet removal process.

 

[AgX]

Remjet happens to be a good solution for anti-halation, static control and lubrication when one is running film at fairly high speed through movie cameras.
You could have ECN-2 film without remjet without any effect on the ECN-2 process.
And you could certainly have remjet on non-ECN-2 films - Kodachrome being the most common example.

Long time there is an alternative to Rem-Jet.

 

[koraks]

why would ORWO produce a high speed daylight-balanced film for the pro cine market? There’s no purpose for that to exist.

Wells there's Visions 50D and 250D. Surely the kind people in Rochester thought about this before they developed and marketed two products for this non-existent niche.

A daylight balanced film makes perfect sense to me:
* It can be used as it's intended to be; think of productions like Lala Land, which AFAIK is at least partly shot on daylight balanced film
* With today's dial-a-temperature led lighting, it can be used with artificial light
* You can sell it to still photographers, who today are virtually only accustomed to daylight balanced film (and many are willing to cross process).

 

[Agulliver]

Wells there's Visions 50D and 250D. Surely the kind people in Rochester thought about this before they developed and marketed two products for this non-existent niche.

A daylight balanced film makes perfect sense to me:
* It can be used as it's intended to be; think of productions like Lala Land, which AFAIK is at least partly shot on daylight balanced film
* With today's dial-a-temperature led lighting, it can be used with artificial light
* You can sell it to still photographers, who today are virtually only accustomed to daylight balanced film (and many are willing to cross process).

You can also sell to the even smaller but extant niche of amateur cine users willing to use negative film.

The difference in the modern studio lighting may be important here, though I don't know enough....are studios now tending to "dial in" daylight for video and film shooting? Or is it something they can reasonably do? If so, a daylight balanced high speed 35mm cine stock might make sense. Though they're going to have to work hard to persuade people to use it instead of Kodak Vision 3.

 

[koraks]

All I know about Cine is what I read and see from time to time about production technology. One thing that does stand out is that CT light sources that allow color temperature to be selected are quite common, at least in small to moderate sizes. For big lights (let's say 5kW and upwards) I'm not sure if the technology has already trickled down. So maybe for bigger productions the industry is still stuck with tungsten balance, but I expect it to be a matter of time before adjustable temperature is also common for high powered lights.

 

[AgX]

Already before the cine world went digital at taking, there was widespread use of HMI lamps emitting at 5600K.

 

[koraks]

Good point indeed.

 

[kuparikettu]

My experience is that while almost every cinematographer likes the continuous spectrum of real tungsten lights, the power draw and heat are reasons why they are used quite rarely. And when used, they are wanted for their warm color - which then requires using daylight balanced film.

Thus it's much more likely that HMI lights, daylight balanced LEDs and Kino-Flos are used. As for film stocks, it doesn't have much effect - daylight balanced film stocks might be used, but tungsten balanced stocks work as well, either with 85B or, as is more likely in this era of digital color correction, without any filtration.

Still, I know that pretty much everyone is very excited about a new color film stock for motion picture use. Having options is great. Will be interesting to find out is this really a C-41 film or XT320 reborn. If it is former, first one to process it in ECN-2 is going to get lots of interest for her/his photos!

 

[mohmad khatab]

Since they have a unit for research and product development.
So, it's over.
The German monster has risen from the dead, it has come back to stay and stretch
The great German train has run again, and no one will be able to stop it.
Regardless of who accepts or who refuses.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

An update on our WOLFEN photo films: production, packaging, and shipping.

Dear Film Community, Since our last announcement on July 5th, we can now confirm that the production of our brand new C41 colour cine film has successfully finished at our German

www.orwo.wtf

"the production of our brand new C41 colour cine film has successfully finished at our German facility."

"Our WOLFEN photo films are currently being confectioned into 36 EXP Industry standard DX coded steel canisters at our Shanghai facility. However, the team has been forced to pause production, due to the country’s dynamic zero-COVID policy."

 

[Cubao]

Is Shanghai not located in Germany?

 

[markjwyatt]

Is Shanghai not located in Germany?

nein/不

 

[Cubao]

nein/不

was just kidding

 

[markjwyatt]

was just kidding

Me too

 

[koraks]

C41 colour cine film

LOL. So which is it - C41 or cine?

 

[AgX]

"Our WOLFEN photo films are currently being confectioned into 36 EXP Industry standard DX coded steel canisters at our Shanghai facility."

Manufacturing film raw stock in Germany and sending the master rolls or pancakes to China just for converting into type 135, if this is what Orwo mean, seems bizarre to me.

Furthermore it contradicts what Orwo indicated so far on their film manufacture. Mirko already hinted at this contradiction recently.

 

[halfaman]

"Our WOLFEN photo films are currently being confectioned into 36 EXP Industry standard DX coded steel canisters at our Shanghai facility."

Manufacturing film raw stock in Germany and sending the master rolls or pancakes to China just for converting into type 135, if this is what Orwo mean, seems bizarre to me.

Furthermore it contradicts what Orwo indicated so far on their film manufacture. Mirko already hinted at this contradiction recently.

It seems that Orwo and Shanghai have a business relationahip since 2019 or so. GP3 100 and 400 would be Orwo films confectioned by the chinese company.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

It seems that Orwo and Shanghai have a business relationahip since 2019 or so. GP3 100 and 400 would be Orwo films confectioned by the chinese company.

Even 120 version of Shanghai films?