Orwo colour film teaser?

[Boomlight]

I got two rolls yesterday, but I haven't shot any yet, because I'm still shooting my first rolls of Santacolor 100.

 

[Beverly Hills]

Strangely so far they announced an ECN-2 cine film. And were hailed for this, in spite of doubts on economic feasibility by me.

.....you're not allone with your doubts AgX!

But that isn't the point - Quentin Tarantino will have a look for ECN-2 film next.
Perhaps he decides not for Kodak Vision ????.....???

If there will be no demand from Hollywood Filmmakers,

manufactured Wolfen film is a need for Instagram Stars :

I shoot film - AND next I shoot Wolfen !

.......finally their anouncements are not so bad "marketing"
....but nothing more!

( Photo amateurs in Europe are enthusiastic and Hollywood
is only s u r p r i s e d..)

 

[Beverly Hills]

So this a brand new film but is based on legendary Agfa stock. What the specific connection with Agfa stock? Has it got some Agfa stock that it has modified in some way or is this brand new film on which it has been working for months/years and the reference to Agfa Stock is that ORWO liked the look of this Agfa stock used in the film "Out of Africa such that it decided to incorporate the Agfa look ?

Once again why a limited edition if it has gone to the time, trouble and expense of producing a new film?

The announcement's text is all very puzzling to me and asks as many questions as it produced answers

I have seen Out of Africa on the TV and the colours were fine but I can't recall thinking that they looked that much different from other films based on Kodak

It gives me the feeling that the announcement is in line with all the other "new film " announcements which were nothing to do with the word " new " as I understand the word

Great if it is an addition to the limited production of colour film whatever the origins and truth but why not tell the truth ?

Is it 1984 yet??

pentaxuser

pentaxuser you are right!
And that ist fine.
Imagine you woke up this morning and the Times and your Daily Telegraph was dated 1985 - how scary !

Orwo film wasn't involved in the Out of Afrika shooting - for sure!
They came from " Out of Eastern Europe " but this was no Hollywood film...

If they refer to Agfa Cine Film ( possible used for Out of Afrika ) ....then it was their biggest coup ! But that was the
Agfa Cine Film Devision ( Not Orwo )
I remember that Agfa Cinefilm wasn't that big in the 80th !
There were Kodak and Fuji...Agfa was used by film students
because it was the cheapest, sometimes even for free (or
allmost for free)!
I would not state Agfa Cine was not in filmbusiness - No ...
that wouln't be correct. Of course there were a lot of smaler
local European cine productions filmed on Agfa !
But today we would state Agfa is not cool ! But cheap ..!
( Exception Out of Afrika )

I remember Kodak and Fuji 250 ISO ( ASA ) from this time and I can't realy remember Agfa 500 ISO film because I did not use Agfa ( even not for free.....,)...but I feel good if Orwo is producing film with original Agfa Cine formulation !
Perhaps it isn't that expensive next.

At least ( to be honest ) ...Agfa Cine was not soo bad.
And Out of Afrika was great. Some filmmakers loved Agfa.
(But Kodak ALSO Fuji Cine were better)!
......have a nice day !

 

[Beverly Hills]

You can also sell to the even smaller but extant niche of amateur cine users willing to use negative film.

Cinefilm is now the tiny little niche that you are desribing
with the amateur cine users. You shouldn't get it wrong.

 

[Beverly Hills]

The difference in the modern studio lighting may be important here, though I don't know enough....are studios now tending to "dial in" daylight for video and film shooting? Or is it something they can reasonably do?

.....studio lighting in normal cases is still 3200k.
There is increasing LED light mixed with halogen light 3200k.

Of course you can also use full daylight in the studio, then you either do everything with hmi spotlights, or you have a mix with hmi and LED light.

However - if the budget is really big and it has to be done this
way for certain reasons, in the latter case you would illuminate everything with LEDs. It would depend on the
larger (studio) sets.
(.....professional LED light is combined with control units.
The light color in kelvin can therefore selected within a certain spectrum)

 

[Beverly Hills]

If so, a daylight balanced high speed 35mm cine stock might make sense.

....in the theoretical studio set up described above, however,
you would work 96% with digital cinema cameras, and that's
the stupid thing.

...but if it were one of the cinema productions on film ( it still exist but if has really become rare ) then the Orwo film would have to have better characteristics than vision 500t and that
won't be easy....................?
.....so if you trust Orwos marketing promises, there's probably only one guy named Tarantino crazy enough to shoot the new Orwo film.

That would be big cinema, shot in 65mm - .....and now it's just stupid again that Orwo have to start producing 65mm film quickly and I assuming that Tarantino will first need
230 .....1000ft. cans!

BIG BUSINESS IN BITTERFELD ?

 

[brbo]

Almost two months ago my order from the first day of preorders was downgraded to be shipped "soon" (down from "immediately"). So after two months of additional waiting for "soon" to materialise I've finally had enough and decided to cancel my order and requested my money back. This time Orwo replied almost immediately and confirmed that my order is now canceled and that they have refunded my money.

Only problem is that there is no sign of any refund from Orwo (PayPal refunds are otherwise instant) and all my questions to Orwo are now again met with total silence.

 

[Agulliver]

.....studio lighting in normal cases is still 3200k.

Not according to the people in the industry that I know. However, I'm mostly in touch with independents. I do know someone who supplies lighting to film production companies and he hasn't even been dealing in any 3200K for several years. I shall enquire some more and see what I can find out.

 

[Beverly Hills]

I do know someone who supplies lighting to film production companies and he hasn't even been dealing in any 3200K for several years. I shall enquire some more and see what I can find out.

That's might be correct, because replacement bulbs for halogen headlights, with very few exceptions, have not been
allowed to be sold in Europe for some time now.
If new light is to be acquired, it has since allmost exclusively
LED light.
But because this new light is not exactly cheap to buy :

existing halogen light will continue to be used in many studios for a transition period.
Because light is relatively expensive, it is usually rented. In such productions, LED light has prevailed to 99% because a light rental with halogen light can hardly make any money nowadays.
Back to Wolfen cine film ambitions and daylight material.

In contrast to analogue video technology the white ballance
in digital cine cameras has meanwhile taken a back seat.
The question of wether to shoot in arteficial light or daylight
is now dependent on the presets and the LUTs.

I can realy see No chance that ORWO film can assert itself
in the cine sector .....!

 

[LeoniD]

But that was the
Agfa Cine Film Devision ( Not Orwo )

InnovisCoat, the company that makes modern ORWO, was created around one of Agfa-Leverkusen coaters by former Agfa's employees. However, their NC 500 is not great even by the 1980s standards, and certainly it doesn't look like Agfa XT320.

It's mask behaves very interestingly in different developers, being pinkish in ECN-2, green in C-41 and yellow with light green tint in CD-2(and I have to note that base fog is pretty high for a fresh film in CD-2, even tho dev. time was 2:45 and I tried to adjust the amount of developing agent to compensate for higher activity). I've seen something similar on a problematic batch of Tasma DS-5m, it's mask changes from very light "standard" brown to bright yellow, with corresponding effects of undermasking in red channel and overmasking in green. So, perhaps, this NC would shine if someone found the "correct" process, like with soviet film, where each batch had to be tested and had dev. time between 6 and 9min. Especially since it has too high contrast even in ECN, judging by videos with tests of 16mm version and the fact that it looks just normal when pulled a stop (ei160). My roll, as well as some examples on the Internet, have blue dots, coating defect, I guess. Here they are visible in the rusty corner. "Clean" colors are interesting too. I remember Photo Engineer describing some tests at Kodak as "cyan, grape and pumpkin", and, well, orwo's magenta does look like grape, yellow being just muddy, but this could be because of CD-2, so more testing is needed

 

[Ten301]

Has anyone determined what nc500 and nc400 actually are and their true native process and speeds? It seems almost as if ORWO has released them and said, “Here you go. Good luck!” with so little information, and what they have released from the beginning has often seemed contradictory and more marketing than fact.

I know ORWO claims these films to be C41 process, but in the very beginning, when they were first breaking the news about nc500, they claimed it to be an ECN2 film. They have also claimed they’re based on old Agfa cine films they have no visual similarities to. Are these films tungsten-balanced like those Agfa films were? Are they daylight-balanced? Nc400 does appear to to have a more unfiltered tungsten-balanced film appearance in daylight. Not a word from ORWO about that. To add to the mystery, at least one website believes these to be old, modified Agfa E6 emulsion formulas, which means E6 is probably their native chemistry. And we, the consumer, are left to figure out what to do with this stuff to get the best results from it.

 

[LeoniD]

Well, ORWO's marketing team claims them to be c41. Most likely, couplers in this film need CD-3, so ECN-2 process, but, based on my results, pulled a stop to get normal contrast. On NC500 WB is skewed towards cool, but after applying warming filter in PS it becomes much harder to color correct. It's probably better to write to Filmotec, maybe something will get through and we'll get the answers. I mean, they did release a "datasheet" for NC500. I really wanted to pay Kyiv film duplicating factory to make full datasheets for both films, since they offered full sensitometry and spectrometry, but unfortunately due to war this service will be unavailable for at least half a year. Maybe ORWO will get their shit together in this time

at least one website believes these to be old, modified Agfa E6 emulsion formulas

Some websites believe the Earth is flat. I saw the results of NC500 in e6, and it's bad. Really bad. Furthermore, it would make no sense to make a masked color negative out of a slide film. NC500 is definitely from the "Metropolis" family. Not the same film, when developed in the same tank with NC they look different, but in terms of palette, they are pretty close

And we, the consumer, are left to figure out what to do with this stuff to get the best results from it.

That was the status quo with all communist film, except DS 100, so it's nothing new for ORWO. But the kicker is, if you take, say, Svema LN-9, you know what developing agent it's designed for, you know it's process, sensitivity, the right color of its mask, fog level, so you only need to determine dev. time, which must be between 6 and 9 min, and maybe check the color palette just in case, so not many variables to account for. Here what you have is basically a mystery film. Unknown process, unknown sensitivity, 3 different colors of mask in different developers, fog that rises rapidly with slightest overdev, and it's not great from the technical point of view-the aforementioned LN-9 from mid 80s is better by all metrics even tho in 80s Svema's lag behind Kodak was close to 10-15 years. Oh, and coating defects. I never saw them on Svema, despite the fact that many cameramen from that time said that defective batches weren't a rare sight, but the very first roll of NC500 I get is defective. I don't know who, besides their own studio, is going to use this film for professional work

 

[Ten301]

Well, ORWO's marketing team claims them to be c41. Most likely, couplers in this film need CD-3, so ECN-2 process, but, based on my results, pulled a stop to get normal contrast. On NC500 WB is skewed towards cool, but after applying warming filter in PS it becomes much harder to color correct. It's probably better to write to Filmotec, maybe something will get through and we'll get the answers. I mean, they did release a "datasheet" for NC500. I really wanted to pay Kyiv film duplicating factory to make full datasheets for both films, since they offered full sensitometry and spectrometry, but unfortunately due to war this service will be unavailable for at least half a year. Maybe ORWO will get their shit together in this time

Some websites believe the Earth is flat. I saw the results of NC500 in e6, and it's bad. Really bad. Furthermore, it would make no sense to make a masked color negative out of a slide film. NC500 is definitely from the "Metropolis" family. Not the same film, when developed in the same tank with NC they look different, but in terms of palette, they are pretty close

That was the status quo with all communist film, except DS 100, so it's nothing new for ORWO. But the kicker is, if you take, say, Svema LN-9, you know what developing agent it's designed for, you know it's process, sensitivity, the right color of its mask, fog level, so you only need to determine dev. time, which must be between 6 and 9 min, and maybe check the color palette just in case, so not many variables to account for. Here what you have is basically a mystery film. Unknown process, unknown sensitivity, 3 different colors of mask in different developers, fog that rises rapidly with slightest overdev, and it's not great from the technical point of view-the aforementioned LN-9 from mid 80s is better by all metrics even tho in 80s Svema's lag behind Kodak was close to 10-15 years. Oh, and coating defects. I never saw them on Svema, despite the fact that many cameramen from that time said that defective batches weren't a rare sight, but the very first roll of NC500 I get is defective. I don't know who, besides their own studio, is going to use this film for professional work

Thank you for your lengthy reply to my ‘rant’ about nc500 and nc400. I feel that after the initial marketing statements and public interest, there has been a collective disappointment (and rightfully so) in the quality of these films. It’s a classic case of over promising and under delivering on ORWO’s part. Severely under delivering, in my opinion.

If I understand correctly, according to your testing, you believe these films to be native ECN-2 process, and both should be exposed at EI 200-250?

 

[LeoniD]

Thank you for your lengthy reply to my ‘rant’ about nc500 and nc400. I feel that after the initial marketing statements and public interest, there has been a collective disappointment (and rightfully so) in the quality of these films. It’s a classic case of over promising and under delivering on ORWO’s part. Severely under delivering, in my opinion.

If I understand correctly, according to your testing, you believe these films to be native ECN-2 process, and both should be exposed at EI 200-250?

I only tested NC500, and for it, yes. 160 to be precise, since someone here on Photrio said that the real sensitivity of this film, according to one of technologists, is iso 320. No mentions of the contrast on that iso tho, heh. NC400 seems to be a bit better, but I didn't even see the negatives of it, just scans.

 

[adamlugi]

I, unfortunately, have been waiting since July for the films and have already lost hope. Fatal company unfortunately :-(

 

[brbo]

Orwo NC500 is now available in EU at Maco. Quite bizarre that people that preordered and paid for same film 10 months ago can't get their film nor can they get their money back before everybody else in US and Europe can buy film from retailers.

I've been dealing with the scammers that are behind their web shop and there is basically new promise every day and then some bullshit excuse the next day why they can't send film or return the money...

 

[Donald Qualls]

I wonder if that would have happened if for the price of one Cinestill silver bullet people would just have bought 3 rolls of Superia.

If you believe Fuji's official releases, the same thing. They've claimed supply chain issues and regulatory concerns, not lack of demand, as the cause for every discontinuation in the past decade or so.

 

[koraks]

They've claimed supply chain issues and regulatory concerns, not lack of demand, as the cause for every discontinuation in the past decade or so.

Not to mention that Fuji simply has not shown a strategic commitment to analog photography for, well, decades. They recognized where the world went in the 1990s and they moved on. Axing product lines is a natural part of that process; milk it until the going gets tough, then simply throw in the towel.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The way I read it, they stopped production of Product X due to regulatory or supply concerns, and there was insufficient demand to expect to pay back the R&D to produce a work-around version. Some of both, in other words.

 

[faberryman]

I remember when Cinestill came out it were the nerds who bought it for 3x the price of Fuji Superia 800 (and 1600) altough those were cheap, plenty and best quality. End of the story was, Fuji stopped producing those two films. I wonder if that would have happened if for the price of one Cinestill silver bullet people would just have bought 3 rolls of Superia.

Does anyone remember the name of the company that respooled Kodak cinema film and then provided ECN2 processing back in the 1970s. They had ads in all the photography magazines. Respooling Kodak cinema film is nothing new. It has been going on for at least 50 years. I seriously doubt a few small companies selling respooled Kodak cinema film caused Fuji to drop Superia 800 or any other color negative film.

As for why respooled Kodak cinema film might cost three times as much as Superia 800, people will pay a lot if they think a product will make them cool.

 

[MattKing]

Does anyone remember the name of the company that respooled Kodak cinema film and then provided ECN2 processing back in the 1970s.

Seattle Film Works was one of them - perhaps the best known.
They also supplied their customers with developed negatives, prints and slides from the same film - plus a replacement "free" film.
Unfortunately, the slides were the result of printing the motion picture stock negatives on to the corresponding motion picture print film, which itself was designed with the idea that there was no need for those movie prints to last - so most/all of those slides have now deteriorated into uselessness now.
The Seattle Film Works films were hated by other photo labs, because if they accidentally ended up with other, C-41 films and were run through the processor, the remjet would go everywhere, and force a complete shutdown, discard of all the processing chemicals, and a complete tear-down and cleaning of the machine.

 

[faberryman]

Seattle Film Works was one of them - perhaps the best known.
They also supplied their customers with developed negatives, prints and slides from the same film - plus a replacement "free" film.
Unfortunately, the slides were the result of printing the motion picture stock negatives on to the corresponding motion picture print film, which itself was designed with the idea that there was no need for those movie prints to last - so most/all of those slides have now deteriorated into uselessness now.
The Seattle Film Works films were hated by other photo labs, because if they accidentally ended up with other, C-41 films and were run through the processor, the remjet would go everywhere, and force a complete shutdown, discard of all the processing chemicals, and a complete tear-down and cleaning of the machine.

Seattle Film Works rings a bell. I didn't remember them supplying slides. I never tried them out. I never shot color negative film. I shot color transparency film instead. I think it was a tungsten film and you were suppose to use a 85B filter, which effectively lowered the ASA and darkened the viewfinder, not to mention turning the viewfinder orange. But maybe they did the color correction on their end. I am pretty sure Popular or Modern Photography did a test and did not issue a resounding endorsement.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I didn't remember them supplying slides.

As I recall the slides were an extra-cost option to the processing; standard process got 4x6 prints and negatives -- but the extra cost was quite small, barely more than the difference between unmounted and mounted Ektachrome processing. This might have changed over time, however; when I moved to Seattle in 1983 they still had kiosks (film was picked up daily, processed overnight, and finished product was available next day) in three or four of the larger parking lots in the city. By 1995 or so they were gone, as I recall, likely driven out of business by one-hour on-site minilab processing in most drug stores and larger supermarkets, and cheap store brand (3M, Konica, Ferrania or Fuji) C-41 film (and the general decline of slides in the public consciousness).

 

[Agulliver]

Oh yes, I used Seattle Film Works when I lived stateside in the late 90s. Mostly because I didn't have a scanner, but I did have cause to take...umm...artistic....photos and they were one of the few labs that would develop *and* scan them. Most American labs wouldn't even touch them and there was nothing outlandish, just nudity.

They scanned to a proprietary format that required their software to read. But it did what I needed it for. When they closed down that service they released freeware the software to convert their files to jpeg. I liked the film from them to be honest. I didn't get any slides from them but I still have many hundreds of negatives from those days, and prints.