If Fuji discontinue all E6 we will see New Ektachrome in 120, 4x5, 8x10 ?

[DREW WILEY]

The best slides shows ever done preceded E6 by decades. Three large panchromatic glass plates, each in a it's own carbon-arc projector, with its respective tricolor glass filter in front, all aligned. The shows would have gone slow, and the operator would probably have used tongs to keep his fingers from being burned, but I've had old-timers descibe the images as more vibrant than anything hence.

 

[trendland]

The best slides shows ever done preceded E6 by decades. Three large panchromatic glass plates, each in a it's own carbon-arc projector, with its respective tricolor glass filter in front, all aligned. The shows would have gone slow, and the operator would probably have used tongs to keep his fingers from being burned, but I've had old-timers descibe the images as more vibrant than anything hence.

Well Drew Wiley I can imagine that experience you made.
The best slide Show I remember was at
Volkswagen/Audi introducing new cars.
Somewhere in the 90 min.12 (may be 24 I can't remember) synchroned 6x6 projectors with laser combined show.
And some attractive cheerleader models on stage. .....OF CAUSE !!!
.....?

 

[DREW WILEY]

I got to handle a number of early 5X7 inch Kodachromes of Hollywood stars, which one of Hurrell's living assistants showed me. Still unfaded, and superior in my estimate than anything E6. These can't be reproduced due to copyright squabbles. But I still have a bunch of old Gepe 6X7cm AN glass slide mounts.

 

[AgX]

The best slides shows ever done preceded E6 by decades. Three large panchromatic glass plates, each in a it's own carbon-arc projector, with its respective tricolor glass filter in front, all aligned.

Why not starting home projecting by means of carbon-arch projector anyway?
A wellsuited and exciting Apug endeavour...

 

[DREW WILEY]

Carbon arc might be nice on a very cold day; but even then you might burn the house down, or else go blind accidentally looking at the filament. More realistically, you could use long lenses on three ordinary slide projectors to minimize parallax on the overlapping images. Pin-registered MF mounts exist. Now you just need to find some friends who will put down their Smartphones long enough to actually look.

 

[trendland]

Carbon arc might be nice on a very cold day; but even then you might burn the house down, or else go blind accidentally looking at the filament. More realistically, you could use long lenses on three ordinary slide projectors to minimize parallax on the overlapping images. Pin-registered MF mounts exist. Now you just need to find some friends who will put down their Smartphones long enough to actually look.

OK - I may understand your point. Your intention is : Not burning the house down from projection with carbon arc powered equipment ?
And you mean this stuff for example :

Well - I have an idea that there could be
indeed a need to new slide projection equipment (I mentioned it sometimes) when I look at this older stuff.......
And I also have an idea that new Ektachrome don't have a special design to use with carbon arc projectors.
It will obviously work - I have no doubts - but for burning down a comlete cinema theatre isn't nitro film the better design?
...

with regards

 

[DREW WILEY]

Just do it right, cause you'll likely get just one chance with a E6 slide and carbon arc. By the time Uncle Henry finishes saying, "My gawd, the ribbon on thet thar kitten shore is mighty bright red", the dyes in slide will have faded by 50 percent. Movie projectors were also very bright; but each frame of the film went past it in a fraction of a second.

 

[bvy]

I hope you do.

See my new post.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Yeah. That's a great idea. Re-issue films on nitro base. It's about time a Darwin Award gets added to the Academy Awards. A nice shiny Oscar would look nice sitting beside the urn containing the projectionist's ashes.

 

[trendland]

Yeah. That's a great idea. Re-issue films on nitro base. It's about time a Darwin Award gets added to the Academy Awards. A nice shiny Oscar would look nice sitting beside the urn containing the projectionist's ashes.

By the time "nitro films" - one would not expect how many of this stuff is still stored in archives around the world.
And (with the time) the danger of burnings becomes more and more.
I remember during short practice in a film lab - they were working to that time
(80th) the whole day to make copies.
Just to make sure to preserve historical documents.
Nearly 15% of films were rot. There (to such damaged films) - it
was to late.
I've seen parts of those film spules in worst condition -if I remember correct it looks in parts like ashes.
Therefore (later) the name "safety film".
But today there is no need to Kodak to name it E6 - Kodak Ektachrome (Safety film).....I would say

with regards

PS : One should not expect the danger of fire from Ektachrome revival - or should we ?

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Why not starting home projecting by means of carbon-arch projector anyway?
A wellsuited and exciting Apug endeavour...

The trouble is getting the carbons. They don't make analog carbons these days and the digital ones just aren't the same.

 

[trendland]

The trouble is getting the carbons. They don't make analog carbons these days and the digital ones just aren't the same.

"Digital carbons" ? ....

with regards

 

[aldevo]

Let's just be very blunt and to the point with one thing here. Skip the hysteria over Kodak and concentrate on what Fujifilm is doing.
In E6, Fujifilm is the major player. Kodak doesn't even rate a mention on the radar. Ektachrome is still seen as a non-event by many traditional dyed-in-the-wool consumers of E6 products.

Mid-last year there were murmurings through two distributors that Fuji was working on an exit from analogue products in 2020. I am keeping my ear to the ground with my own distributor. If they do exit, that will cause a collapse of E6 availability, in particular the labs and the chemicals they use. For some time -- a few years now, a trend has been seen for labs to scale down processing availability or cease processing of E6 completely. For E6 to be worthwhile, a large amount of the product must be run through the machinery to keep it going; the process is filthy. The inescapable fact is E6 is diminishing continuously in take-up and processing availability. We should collectively not be holding our breath for Kodak as any sort of saviour for the market, but getting cracking with whatever other E6 materials are available to keep the machines turning. If we don't, we have only ourselves to blame, not the film manufacturers.

Do it.

Absolutely true.

A Fujifilm departure from the E-6 market reduces the chances of the revived Kodak Ektachrome becoming a commercial success rather than the opposite.

In fact, I would venture to say that most E-6 film shooters who have remained shooting the stuff despite the increasingly-poor availability of processing - strictly did so because of the unique properties of those Fujifilm materials and they will not have any appetite at all for Kodak Ektachrome.

 

[RattyMouse]

Well, I'm going to buy a 5 pack of Velvia 50 and chip in my part to keep E6 alive. I found a lab that processes this film for a reasonable price. I havent shot slide film for 4 or 5 years. Maybe i'll take to it this time.

 

[aldevo]

Well, I'm going to buy a 5 pack of Velvia 50 and chip in my part to keep E6 alive. I found a lab that processes this film for a reasonable price. I havent shot slide film for 4 or 5 years. Maybe i'll take to it this time.

Do as you'd like but all signs indicate that Fujifilm's exit is very much fait accompli if what my Japanese friends tell me is true.

 

[Craig]

signs indicate that Fujifilm's exit is very much fait accompli if what my Japanese friends tell me is true.

That would be quite sad. Their marketing leaves something to be desired, as Acros in sheets is only available in Japan to the best of my knowledge.

 

[lantau]

That would be quite sad. Their marketing leaves something to be desired, as Acros in sheets is only available in Japan to the best of my knowledge.

Acros 4x5 is available in Europe. I'm thinking if I should buy a box for my pinhole. Or perhaps hamster quite a few boxes in case I will ever buy a large format camera. By that time it will be all gone, and I'm not going to pay the prices on the auction site. But my fridge/freezer capacity is pretty much maxed out as it is. And I'm not considering myself a hoarder. I have lots of different film and it is there because I might want to shoot a specific one tomorrow.

 

[RattyMouse]

Do as you'd like but all signs indicate that Fujifilm's exit is very much fait accompli if what my Japanese friends tell me is true.

I certainly believe it to be true as well. Fujifilm has given every possible sign that their support for film (INSTAX aside) is over.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Acros is entirely out of production. Once the last of it sells off, it is no more. All of Fuji's better sheet films on polyester base are gone, while triacetate sheets remain, so I suspect it's the substrate itself they don't want to re-invest in. This would also expain them dumping ACROS sheet film, but not acetate rolls of it. Astia sold poorly in this country, despite its superb repro characteristics. Everyone seemingly wants high color saturation. Don't know why, since most of them are simply going to nuke the image with finger paint in PS anyway. I loved Velvia for bringing out content in low-contrast fog scenes, but not for general subject matter. It's a sad day for chrome film in general.

 

[trendland]

Does perhaps someone of your fellows have New Information about Fujis Bail out of E6 plan?
What I certainly remember was the special pricing of B&H for Fuji Provias.
I wondered about shortly but they were with short exspiration date.
That's in case of miscalculation on demand from B&H (they ordered in a scale wich was to high),
that might be happend in case of highest demand to Provias so Fuji might higher own production scale in manufacturing Provias and gave lower production costs in Form of special pricing to retailers indirekt to us. Last I would not realy believe.
Or Fuji calculated wrong in concern of their deal with the New Agfa group - Agfa Precisas (first were Provias (without "F") later Provias F coming from normal Fuji production.?

Last a case of Provias wich were not constantly in production of Fuji and so( produced in the past )Fuji decided to give them away for less before they become older and older?

with regards

PS )
just to make clear again : I definitivly don't want to see Fuji is stopping E6 somewhere in the Future in total.
But reality teached me in the past sometimes. (what have they done via pricing and discontinuation)?

 

[jim10219]

Check this out:

https://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en...ts/2016/pack/pdf_TOP/Review-of-Operations.pdf

Fuji is turning profits now. They're diversifying away from film (getting into the healthcare market), but they're still turning a profit in film. in 2013 they were operating at a loss. In 2016 they pulled in 32.2 billion Yen in profit. Their film division sales was UP 3.9% and they made almost 150 billion Yen more off of film than digital (249.9 vs 103.4). Their camera lines, both digital and film, only make up 14% of their business.

It's old news from 2016, but it does show that Fuji would be dumb to exit the film market completely. They've already got a lot invested into it, and it's making them money. They're a smart business, and you don't walk away from easy profit just because it's not the main source of your business anymore.

Here's last year's financial statement:
https://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/pdf/investors/integrated_report/ff_ir_2017_all.pdf

On page 17, they talk about their commitment to continuing film. It basically says the company is growing and becoming less reliant on film sales, which is smart given the market. However, they seem to feel a social need to provide film and are willing to accept that role.

So I don't think Fuji is going to give up E6. That's their main social contribution to film. I think they're just looking for ways to make it a more stable and sound business model for them. They cut out Acros and others to make sure they films that don't turn a profit don't drag down the ones that do. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see them whittle down their production runs and offerings. So it might turn into a scenario where they only produce the film a few times a year. If they do that, it won't be unusual to see expired film for sale from major distributors and retailers in between runs.

Before Fuji discontinues E6 film, I bet they'll exit the digital camera market. They have a smaller market share, there's less profitability for them in that sector, and less potential for future growth. That's probably why they're getting into the digital medium format, as that market has fewer players, and they may see a better potential for profitability.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Fuji already gave up on their best E6 products. It would be nice if Kodak E100G came back in 4x5 and 8x10 sheets. Of course, men might colonize Mars someday too. I'm not waiting. Kodak 8x10 color neg film is already priced through the roof - around $30 a pop with C41 processing. Glad I already have a stash of it in the freezer. I sold off my stockpile of Fuji and Kodak 8x10 chrome sheets, since Ciba is no longer available as a print medium.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Is Fuji continuing Velvia 50 RVP in 120?

 

[trendland]

Is Fuji continuing Velvia 50 RVP in 120?

What I felt about Velvia50 is : that is one of the best E6 ever. In 120 it is still avaible but the future seams to be a discontinuation in direction of remaining Velvia100 and Provia100F.(in120)
In 4x5 Velvia50 is out of sale.....

with regards

 

[trendland]

Check this out:

https://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en...ts/2016/pack/pdf_TOP/Review-of-Operations.pdf

Fuji is turning profits now. They're diversifying away from film (getting into the healthcare market), but they're still turning a profit in film. in 2013 they were operating at a loss. In 2016 they pulled in 32.2 billion Yen in profit. Their film division sales was UP 3.9% and they made almost 150 billion Yen more off of film than digital (249.9 vs 103.4). Their camera lines, both digital and film, only make up 14% of their business.

It's old news from 2016, but it does show that Fuji would be dumb to exit the film market completely. They've already got a lot invested into it, and it's making them money. They're a smart business, and you don't walk away from easy profit just because it's not the main source of your business anymore.

Here's last year's financial statement:
https://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/pdf/investors/integrated_report/ff_ir_2017_all.pdf

On page 17, they talk about their commitment to continuing film. It basically says the company is growing and becoming less reliant on film sales, which is smart given the market. However, they seem to feel a social need to provide film and are willing to accept that role.

So I don't think Fuji is going to give up E6. That's their main social contribution to film. I think they're just looking for ways to make it a more stable and sound business model for them. They cut out Acros and others to make sure they films that don't turn a profit don't drag down the ones that do. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see them whittle down their production runs and offerings. So it might turn into a scenario where they only produce the film a few times a year. If they do that, it won't be unusual to see expired film for sale from major distributors and retailers in between runs.

Before Fuji discontinues E6 film, I bet they'll exit the digital camera market. They have a smaller market share, there's less profitability for them in that sector, and less potential for future growth. That's probably why they're getting into the digital medium format, as that market has fewer players, and they may see a better potential for profitability.

Thanks Jim for that great information - so we might see what will happen. Today Fuji is on the way to higher pricing on E6 Films again. The discontinuation is not stopped. But it goes around 5packs in120!
An indirect way to higher price.

with regards

PS : To state again : I have nothing to say against Fuji Film - I love their Films! And the more different films the better. But I indeed hate their marketing..........and I have little problems to trust them.