If Fuji discontinue all E6 we will see New Ektachrome in 120, 4x5, 8x10 ?

[jim10219]

I'm betting they will continue to par back their film line up. But, like I said before, I don't see them wanting to get out of film. I think they're just looking at the long term viability, and being proactive in their decisions to make sure their film side stays profitable. And I totally understand why they discontinued Velvia 50 in sheet film. It's a great looking film, but it's pretty slow. And large format cameras usually use really small apertures, which makes slow films more difficult to use. Especially in landscape photography, where subtle breezes can blur objects in the foreground. And with the high color saturation, landscape photography is where Velvia 50 really shines. But it had to compete with Velvia 100, which is a pretty similar looking film and twice as fast. So they were kind of competing with themselves by offering two similar films in the same small market.

However, with Kodak back in the E-6 market, and Fuji scaling back, Kodak will have more room to compete and remain viable. This means that if Ektachrome in 135 film is a big success for them, as it should be, they will likely consider introducing a 120 and perhaps 4x5 version of it. So while Velvia 50 may be gone from 4x5, it might just provide the window for Ektachrome. Unfortunately, if Ektachrome does come out in 4x5, I wouldn't be surprised to see Provia in 4x5 disappear, as they're kind of similar. We'll see. There's always the possibility that Ektachrome re-energizes the slide film market and you see a sudden explosion of slide film shooters. There are a lot of advantages to slide film, especially in a world where most people digitally scan negatives anyway. Finer grain, not having to remove that yellow color mask, beautiful colors right off the bat... All that's really missing is some better consumer scanners capable of capturing all of that shadow detail without blowing out the highlights.

 

[Kino]

All that's really missing is some better consumer scanners capable of capturing all of that shadow detail without blowing out the highlights.

It can be done with the scanners we have, but that is a thread for Hybrid discussion...

 

[trendland]

Who cares :


PS : First the right scanner then the best workflow (max. 4x5 inch)

with regards

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

What I felt about Velvia50 is : that is one of the best E6 ever. In 120 it is still avaible but the future seams to be a discontinuation in direction of remaining Velvia100 and Provia100F.(in120)
In 4x5 Velvia50 is out of sale.....

with regards

I don;t like Velvia 100. When is Velvia 50 in 120 being discontinued? Where did you get that info? I see B and H is still selling it.

 

[abruzzi]

When is Velvia 50 in 120 being discontinued? Where did you get that info? I see B and H is still selling it.

I think its just a matter of people voicing their fears. I see threads with people saying its going to happen because no one has seen Velvia dated after 2019, then when someone says that they have seen Velvia dated after 2019, they either ignore it, or disbelieve it. Or a thread pops up where someone's friend knows a sales clerk at a shop in Tokyo, who talked to a guy who worked at Fuji who told him that Fuji plans to discontinue it, and rather that taking it with a huge grain of salt that they should, it becomes an internet fact.

Maybe it will really happen, but until then, buy it and shoot it. If you really care, or if your livelihood depends on it, buy a lot and freeze it, but don't equate internet rumors with fact.

 

[iandvaag]

I agree with abruzzi, I don't recall ever seeing any credible claims that RVP 50 is planned to be discontinued.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Fujifilm has not, and has no plans to, discontinue the present product line. Who is spreading that bullshit now!?
There will likely be an incremental price increase next year, but other than that, if/when Fujifilm has plans to discontinue a product, or products-plural, such activity is announced formally in Dealer Bulletins (not necessarily available to amateurs!) and publication of same on their website.

 

[jim10219]

It can be done with the scanners we have, but that is a thread for Hybrid discussion...

Yeah, but it usually requires special settings that not all software has. I was just stating that for people new to scanning film, it presents an extra step that might keep them away from trying slide film in the first place. Of course, the same could be said for negative film. And really, it’s not so much the actual difficulty as it is the reputation of difficulty found on many sites online.

People love film. They don’t even seem to mind the cost. The difficulty, however, seems to be the sticking point for some. Hence why instant film is doing so well. With any luck, Fuji will bring back some pull and peel film.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

they will likely consider introducing a 120 and perhaps 4x5 version of it.

This has already been announced as a fact by Kodak but it requires additional production steps which they have to plan out, so it is not going to happen immediately, but it is a future-plan event.

We'll see. There's always the possibility that Ektachrome re-energizes the slide film market and you see a sudden explosion of slide film shooters.

But as we are seeing at the moment, maybe not.
There have been no takers here of the Ektachrome 100 in 135-36 format, and that is chiefly due to the very steep price. However, this pricing is not entirely due to Kodak, but the 17% retail premium that is common here. The significantly lower pricing in the USA and North America of Ektachrome 100 is due to retail introductory 'baiting' -- the price will most definitely go up in the near future. As time progresses independent online dealers will once again provide price relief; street-level stores do not necessarily embrace discounting of premium products; this can lead to a persistent cycle of discount fatigue which eats into profits. All this however does not necessarily mean that there will be an "explosion of slide film shooters". This is a specialist, niche area that is not growing but contracting. All well and good that another E6 product is on the market, but it has not, in reality, got off to a promising start.

All that's really missing is some better consumer scanners capable of capturing all of that shadow detail without blowing out the highlights.

"Consumer scanners" are quite capable of recording all detail from shadows to midtones to highlights on the proviso that the photographer has correctly exposed the film in the conditions for which the film is know to respond best to. Unpalatable as it may be, all of the existing E6 films do not and never have performed well being shot in bright, contrasty light. There will be a casualty: shadows will block, highlights will fail and midtones will be lost. I have explained this often enough to people often reduced to tears by the poor results obtained from Fuji films simply because they thought it would be the same as a roll of negative film. It is not. Factually, if highlights are blowing, examine the light you are shooting in: Neither Velvia 50 or 100, and to a lesser extent Provia 100F, will tolerate long exposures in bright light, even bright-hazy light. Soft light -- even flat to overcast, provides for the graceful retention of shadow and highlight detail, and will give most competent scanners a very good chance of successfully recording the full range of soft contrasts.

While over here in New Zealand I will be running through the last Beta-test roll of Ektachrome 100 from a colleague who has returned to work as a result of personal circumstances and has handed over the remaining task to me.

 

[Kino]

The Curves tool in any reasonable scanner software is all you need to get full range scans, but this has been beaten to death in other threads and goes nowhere with much animosity generated.

Now, back to the original premise: Personally, I would like to see 120 (on the way), 4x5 (problematic) and 8x10 (not likely) in Ektachrome.

 

[trendland]

I don;t like Velvia 100. When is Velvia 50 in 120 being discontinued? Where did you get that info? I see B and H is still selling it.

The advantage of Velvia50 is to most photographers in its intensive color look.2005 if I remember right Fuji stated it will be discontinued from reasons of inability to get the raw chemical substances for this emulsion.Perhaps you remember :A real mass of international photographers protested against Fujis decision of discontinuation. So the reason of less demand was nonsence in regard of Velvia50.

I can't say for sure perhaps PE has an idea of - I just remember some statement he mentioned about some rare substances wich have been increased massive in price.

That seems to me was the reason of Fujis decision. Also Fujis arguments that Velvia100 and Velvia100F have better characteristics in regard of Velvia50 was not exepted from many photographers -me too. With today's technology a ISO 50 Film has more resolution in regard of an improved emulsion with ISO 100 because the difference from improvement is allways less in comparison to the next (full ) ISO class.Improved or not Improved Velvia50 has phantastic resolution and that is not a bad characteristic if you shot 35mm - with 120 Films it is also not a bad idea to have finest details. Sure this has only an issue with real big enlargements! With little (smaler) prints you definitivly see no difference between Velvia100 and Velvia50 but that is also in regard of ISO 400 class films as we all know.
So (you remember) Fuji stated they bring back original Velvia50 and found new raws for this original emulsion wich are longer avaible and give 100% same characteristics of Velvia50 back?????

I don't belive that - but they had to state because before they stated this substances are not longer avaible.
I don't think you can produce a well known emulsion with different raw chems from original Rezeption without any difference.....
But perhaps Fuji have found the rosetta stone ?
So that is from importance of Velvia50 : Fuji might don't like this film because they were forced to bring it back from reasons of image destruction in case if they did not (just to that time).
From my point they used the same raws to higher price. The film is more expensive in production compared to Velvia100. So the price is higher (by the most retailers).
It has been a clever idea to change production in direction to the New class of Velvias with ISO100.
If the simple word if not were.....if so many photographers can't agree. Me too.

What is happening today? The demand is much more little the raws seems to be much higher from costs.
The film pricing wich is imense meanwhile with Velvia50 smallers the demand in addition.
So we should care about ?????

Yes! Fuji seams to favors Provia100 as relative cheap in production with profits from sale.
(The demand seams to be higher compared with Velvia50 same is with Velvia100)

But the costs with production from Velvia50 possible result its end next.
First in 120 (obviously there is real less demand meanwhile) but last should be also with Velvia100 Provia100 in 120.

So first Fuji discontinued all this 120films in5packs. So the pricing will increase.

And today a big dealer has listed Velvia50 in 120 AS sold out temporaryly. Within the past all Films wich were sold out from that dealer were discontinued later. (All Films in all formats are avaible there in general).
But if we are lucky it is just a production phase wich results a bottleneck in avaibility.

But from my point we we soon hear a statement from Fuji in regard of discontinuation Velvia50 in 120.

with regards

 

[trendland]

Forgetting to state : B&H has listed it and it is avaible there :

And if I were you I would soon think about :
1) how many 120 Velvia50 I have shot in the midt the last 3years
2) how many 120 Velvia 50 do I need for the next years.
3) I may just call B&H and ASK them how many 120 Velvia 50 they are able to ship.
4) Is there enough space in the freezer for that amount of additional Films



But let it better not know your wife Alan

with regards

 

[trendland]

The Curves tool in any reasonable scanner software is all you need to get full range scans, but this has been beaten to death in other threads and goes nowhere with much animosity generated.

Now, back to the original premise: Personally, I would like to see 120 (on the way), 4x5 (problematic) and 8x10 (not likely) in Ektachrome.

Yeah Kino that is a
REAL NICE list of wishes if I understand you corect from the last (8x10 not likely in Ektachrome)

In what other emulsion than Ektachrome would you like to see 8x10 from Kodak?

Soon I will be on your side if we may get alternate 2. emulsion : EPR !

But 8x10 EPR is a real smal niche. Perhaps we remember this guy again :

Back in the year 2013 the last batch of 8x10 Velia50 found a New owner for more than 100K

...that amounds of frezzed suff has a total worth near 1/2 Million USD today!
It is like Gold.

with regards

 

[DREW WILEY]

I doubt 8x10 shooters use much Velvia. I don't even understand its popularity in general today. I've shot and printed enough of it to know the distinctions. You can always boost contrast for printing; but if the film is too contrasty to begin with, you can't reproduce something that's not even there, exposure-wise. E100G is more versatile.

 

[1kgcoffee]

I would not call Velvia too contrasy. The vibrance and saturation and contrast all contribute to make an image 'pop' in a way that color negative or digital cannot. A print or monitor can't do justice. It can be mimicked digitally but nothing brings me back to the moment like a well made velvia slide on the light table. As for 4x5 and 8x10, the cost is prohibitively expensive. Why should larger than 6x6 if you cannot project?

 

[trendland]

I would not call Velvia too contrasy. The vibrance and saturation and contrast all contribute to make an image 'pop' in a way that color negative or digital cannot. A print or monitor can't do justice. It can be mimicked digitally but nothing brings me back to the moment like a well made velvia slide on the light table. As for 4x5 and 8x10, the cost is prohibitively expensive. Why should larger than 6x6 if you cannot project?

That is not totally wrong you metioned.....sorry for that kind of formulation 1 kgcoffe..!
But now seriously : that you metioned is indeed an issue I also had such idea of.
Why more than 6x6 with E6 Films ? Sure for protection but how?
There are 6x7 projectors. The only thing I personally own are some 6x7 frames. 39,- bucks for just 10 pices in a box. Wow it is with anti newton glass - fine at 3,90 per mounts....
(I just payed 7 bucks because it was a special prince)
After that I just need USD 4900,- for a projectors in good used condition wich is manualy.
Or USD 8000,- for a New one with automatic function? Perhaps shoud I first make sure to get some hundred 6x7 frames for my first kilo i'd to pay?

My workflow with 6x7 is to cut some best 6x7 slides (from I had some double) and mount it 6x6..?

How to proceed with 8x10 seriously? The main reason is of course to have a LOOK at (or let us say:
to feel "this are mine and I will have a LOOK on it to everytime I want"
Enlargements could be also done from c41 Films (with exeption of some special intention where E6 get a preference)
To most (exclusive lucky guys who own an enlarger 8x10) it ends with contact prints.
The quality from technical concerns is indeed a class of its own - the royality class!
What is remaining ? The Problem from positive process at the paper side today!

Bad at last it is that different from hold it in your own hands - and that is beginning with 4x5 slides.
(It is just not the same feeling and from other visual character with c41 negatives)

with regards

 

[trendland]

This has already been announced as a fact by Kodak but it requires additional production steps which they have to plan out, so it is not going to happen immediately, but it is a future-plan event.



But as we are seeing at the moment, maybe not.
There have been no takers here of the Ektachrome 100 in 135-36 format, and that is chiefly due to the very steep price. However, this pricing is not entirely due to Kodak, but the 17% retail premium that is common here. The significantly lower pricing in the USA and North America of Ektachrome 100 is due to retail introductory 'baiting' -- the price will most definitely go up in the near future. As time progresses independent online dealers will once again provide price relief; street-level stores do not necessarily embrace discounting of premium products; this can lead to a persistent cycle of discount fatigue which eats into profits. All this however does not necessarily mean that there will be an "explosion of slide film shooters". This is a specialist, niche area that is not growing but contracting. All well and good that another E6 product is on the market, but it has not, in reality, got off to a promising start.



"Consumer scanners" are quite capable of recording all detail from shadows to midtones to highlights on the proviso that the photographer has correctly exposed the film in the conditions for which the film is know to respond best to. Unpalatable as it may be, all of the existing E6 films do not and never have performed well being shot in bright, contrasty light. There will be a casualty: shadows will block, highlights will fail and midtones will be lost. I have explained this often enough to people often reduced to tears by the poor results obtained from Fuji films simply because they thought it would be the same as a roll of negative film. It is not. Factually, if highlights are blowing, examine the light you are shooting in: Neither Velvia 50 or 100, and to a lesser extent Provia 100F, will tolerate long exposures in bright light, even bright-hazy light. Soft light -- even flat to overcast, provides for the graceful retention of shadow and highlight detail, and will give most competent scanners a very good chance of successfully recording the full range of soft contrasts.

While over here in New Zealand I will be running through the last Beta-test roll of Ektachrome 100 from a colleague who has returned to work as a result of personal circumstances and has handed over the remaining task to me.

Nevertheless if Fuji will discontinue or will not - coming back to the beginning of this threat :

120/4x5/8x10 Ektachromes ?

The first barrierefrei is overcome 120 Ektachrome will come back !

with regards

PS : Read other thread - hope pricing in Australia is a little less at next year

 

[AgX]

The first barrierefrei is overcome 120 Ektachrome will come back !

"barrierefrei" is an adjective, meaning "there is no barrier at all"

 

[trendland]

yeah Agx you got it....!
I wondered in the same way about this vocabulary - but it was too late. The sentence : "The first barrier is overcome" my brand new chineese tabled changed into that you metioned without asking me.
with regards

PS : The same I remember happend with my (broken) samsung mobile.
But it is no problem at all - some may imagine : correction should be done from brain while reading.

 

[trendland]

By the way :

does anyone remember the use of 8x10 thungsten behind 2000 ?
Here is an example of 64T with expiration 2005 ? I wonder about this emulsion was still avaible
2003 ?

with regards

 

[DREW WILEY]

Just because Velvia "pops" on a light box or on a slide projector screen does not make it versatile in terms of exposure and printing. It was nice for accentuating low
contrast scenes (fog etc). But those of us who shot a lot of 8x10 chromes had better choices where to spend our hard-earned money. 8x10 color film is not cheap, and it's only getting more and more expensive. And you can only carry so many of those big holders at a time. And 8x10 isn't just for contact printing! I have three 8x10 enlargers. Once Cibachrome went extinct, I sold off all my frozen boxes of 8x10 chrome film and started concentrating on color neg film, including 8x10 Ektar. But also learned how to make very high quality contact internegs from my substantial pile of extant 8x10 chromes - just a few at a time; it's quite a chore. But here again, for this kind of application, Velvia is a headache to work with.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Velvia contrasty nature makes it a favourite go-to in soft/diffuse light, but not point light.
My experience using RVP50 in very strong early morning and evening light in outback Australia in 2011 was such that I stopped using it in those specific conditions when colour was way, way too strong -- even if exposed at EI40 or down to EI32, it was still too brutalist. Provia 100F provides much better rendition without inflaming the screaming reds and yellows and making a balls-up of greens. The outback, especially now in mid-Spring and all the way to next autumn, will teach you some brutal lessons about your film choice and so very many folks go out there and make the same mistake as I did in 2011 before rushing back and re-shooting with Provia: I wanted "pop and sparkle". Instead I got a wild and unliveable rendition of the reds, blues and greens I remember! Fast forward a bit, and I am also not averse to using Ektar in these circumstances and will have a bit of time to do just that when my next junket kicks off in mid-November.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Ektar can resolve different earthtones hues better than other color neg films. But you need to be more religious to use correction filters than with chrome films if the scene Kelvin temperature is significantly off. I always carry a 2B pink Skylight filter as well as an 81A or KR1.5 amber for overcast conditions. It's trickier to correct for split illumination likely to be encountered in the desert under open sun where just the shadows reproduce excessively blue. But it can be done by pre-flashing the film with an amber diffuser at Zone III. Chrome films often looked appealing with excess blue, but color neg films don't.

 

[trendland]

Next on plan for discontinuation by Fuji (in 35mm and 120 format) sorry to tell :

with condolences from "Trendland" !

 

[dutchsteammachine]

Next on plan for discontinuation by Fuji (in 35mm and 120 format) sorry to tell :
View attachment 222271

with condolences from "Trendland" !

Source?