Agfa Cinerex - tests and recommendation

[Field]

Hm my EI25 still get some blow out around the white spots. I wonder how to tame that?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62226537@N02/sets/72157629947149265/

I'm not quiet sure if I can do better or not? Well with Tmax developer.... I'll have to try Rodinal now. The Xtol seems better than Tmax.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

Hm my EI25 still get some blow out around the white spots. I wonder how to tame that?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62226537@N02/sets/72157629947149265/

I'm not quiet sure if I can do better or not? Well with Tmax developer.... I'll have to try Rodinal now. The Xtol seems better than Tmax.

As I'm sure you know, develpment controls the highlights, so you need to develop for a shorter time. Unfortunately, that may also mean you need a bit more exposure. My impression so far is that this film does not have excessive highlight contrast, so developer choice should not be fussy. It seems like it retains some highlight separation pretty far up the scale, but with a gentle shoulder.

Here is a snapshot of a bright red Chevy in contrasty light I took on my bicycle ride yesterday evening. It shows some of this film's characteristics (including some halation around the brightest reflections). 1/125 second at 5.6, which is becoming my standard exposure for this film in this type of light.

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[Field]

I've only been taking pictures in contrasty light. My next roll I'll try 6.75 minutes. Which is what EI50 works at but...

I'm trying an orange filter to see what happens. Yellow was on the entire other set. It helps pull the clouds a little, and maybe a little more development will get them in better without having to underexpose to see them.

 

[zsas]

Shot another ten frames today at 100 ISO, Xtol 1:1 for 17.5 mins at 20C. They are looking much better. I also changed cameras, went from a Okympus XA to a Yashica Linx, the film is looking better. This time I just popped open the tank durring agitations to see how the developing was going (in red safe lights). At 17 they looked baked nicely. Shot indoors and they were mostly underexposed, but did manage to get one that wasnt too bad, will post a scan hope in the next few days. Nice results Mark!!! Field your Flickr has some winners on there too. I think the film will be tough to tame at times but that makes sense (not much of an AH layer)...

 

[Field]

Yeah well the results when good, are great, so I'm going to work with it for a long time.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

As I'm sure you know, develpment controls the highlights, so you need to develop for a shorter time. Unfortunately, that may also mean you need a bit more exposure. My impression so far is that this film does not have excessive highlight contrast, so developer choice should not be fussy. It seems like it retains some highlight separation pretty far up the scale, but with a gentle shoulder.

Here is a snapshot of a bright red Chevy in contrasty light I took on my bicycle ride yesterday evening. It shows some of this film's characteristics (including some halation around the brightest reflections). 1/125 second at 5.6, which is becoming my standard exposure for this film in this type of light.

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Very nice shot Mark.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I have a Leica Mini Zoom 35-70 Vario Elmar with DX Coding System. I have ordered the film from Field and I have some questions.
I will load that film in to no DX Code empty basic black plastic film canisters. What would Leica register the ASA setting.
I loved thar film at deep black 25 ASA setting.
If my camera act 100 ASA and if I want 25 ASA look , what would I need to do with D76.?

Thank you ,

Umut

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Do airport xray fog that film ? There was metallized bags at 80s , is it still available ?

Umut

 

[Newt_on_Swings]

That's a 2 stop push then if it defaults to 100. if your compact has exposure compensation use it, most basic ones will have a button for 2 stop over exposure for things such as backlit subjects (sunsets with people in foreground).

Lead X-ray bags come in different grades, basic are lead lined plastic, best are multilayer lead woven into heavy ballistic style nylon. Manufactures grade them for protection from 200-800 speed films usually. This is for carry on protection only. Check in luggage or mail may get exposed to much higher levels which any bag can't protect against. Not alll mail is xrayed though and slow speeds will be affected less. What if a real worry is hand inspection.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

I have a roll spooled up in my Contax G2 using my 45 Planar. Shot some on the way to work, will try to finish it today or tiomorrow and soup it over the weekend. Shooting at 40 ASA but I often over-expose a stop for anything close to backlit.

 

[Katie]

I will try to shoot some this weekend as well. Got busy with yardwork, product photos, and some personal projects.

 

[Field]

Can't wait to see what the 45 planar will do with it. I don't have any best in the world lenses anymore! I had one and it was splendid...

 

[Field]

Orange filter vs. no filter OM2n 28mm f3.5 lens.

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That was at 6.75 in Tmax 1:4. Clearly no filter needs even more time... so far only the yellow filter seems worth using. I'm not sure how much to increase development for EI25 filterless, but everything is vastly blown out.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

Field, if the highlights are blown out, you need to reduce developement, not increase it; maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying.

I've been out of town for a couple days, but got a few shots while away. This is the Pleasants Power Station near Belmont W.Va., which was the site of the site of the Willow Island Disaster in 1978 .

1/60 @ 5.6 #12 filter

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[Richard S. (rich815)]

Ok I shot two short rolls of the Cinerex yesterday on a field trip with my son's 4th grade class to Angel Island in San Francisco bay.

As mentioned I shot it in my Contax G2 and used primarily the 45 Planar but also the 28 Biogon and 90 Sonnar. It was a bright, clear sunny day and I set the camera for 40 ASA but adjusted +2/3 to +1 to "over-expose" for anything close to being backlit.

Developed it just now in HC-110 dilution B at 20C for 5 min with 2x agitation every 30 seconds. It's hanging to dry right now but let me say this: contrast!!!! Crisp and sharp, sharp, sharp (with those lenses of course) but my god the negs look like they were etched in granite. Will scan some tonight. Fingers crossed on highlights being preserved.

Right now am thinking 50 ASA next time and perhaps HC-110 but dilution H and 6.5 min just to see how the contrast is tamed with more dilute developer and some pull back in time. Will see if this opinion stays after the scans later...

 

[Field]

Mark your stuff is amazing...

I'll try less without filter. But I got to say that at 5.5 it was basically just white, nothing there. I can try 6, since 6.5 was a bit much. That is a narrow window. Oh well Tmax is free for me ATM.

I hope someone with a lens or camera that I want to trade some of this stuff for, will look at some of your pictures!

 

[Mark Crabtree]

I use replenished Xtol, but mixed fresh today so ran some tests with that to find a developing time that should be more helpful to others.

With fresh undiluted Xtol I got about a 6 to 6 1/2 minute time at 70 degrees. 6' is a pretty good match for the results I'm getting in replenished. That time holds the contrast of the negative back for the high contrast scenes I've been shooting so far. 6 1/2 minutes at 70 degree is probably fine under more normal light.

I just didn't have the time to sort out Xtol 1:1. Comparing to other times on the Xtol charts, it looks like that should come in around 8.25 to 9 minutes for results comparable to the straight Xtol times above.

This is not a very forgiving film as far as exposure or development; it is worth running a bracket test roll, then clip tests to find what will give you the results you want.

 

[Field]

Well at EI25 any film is likely to be more problematic with strong dillutions of developer. For example they don't even list times for Adox/Efke 50 with Tmax 1:4 because the window is so narrow under 5 minutes I think.

If I go with Rodinal at 1:50 or 1:100 my area of 5.5-6.5 to play in becomes several minutes wide.

 

[zsas]

Still rainy and cloudy out here, was able to do a quick test roll of about 15 frames. Here they are drying, not thin negs anymore!!! I developed by inspection with a red light in the darkroom. Checked at 5, 10, 11, 12, 13. Then at 13 they looked nice and baked well....

Note, if you are going to open your tank and look at this film, please make sure you have good goggles on since the film can splatterer and what not while unrolling and glancing at it as my goggles saved me already.

Shot it at 25 with a yellow (K2) filter (which takes one stop) on my Yashica Linx 14E f1.4. Xtol 1:1, 14 mins. They look spectacular (at a glance as they dry)....time will tell...hope to get a scan of em today and if I am lucky get a printing session too today....

 

[zsas]

Mark glad to hear your tests continue. I dont believe I have read what you shoot this stuff at, 25, 50?

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Ok I shot two short rolls of the Cinerex yesterday on a field trip with my son's 4th grade class to Angel Island in San Francisco bay.

As mentioned I shot it in my Contax G2 and used primarily the 45 Planar but also the 28 Biogon and 90 Sonnar. It was a bright, clear sunny day and I set the camera for 40 ASA but adjusted +2/3 to +1 to "over-expose" for anything close to being backlit.

Developed it just now in HC-110 dilution B at 20C for 5 min with 2x agitation every 30 seconds. It's hanging to dry right now but let me say this: contrast!!!! Crisp and sharp, sharp, sharp (with those lenses of course) but my god the negs look like they were etched in granite. Will scan some tonight. Fingers crossed on highlights being preserved.

Right now am thinking 50 ASA next time and perhaps HC-110 but dilution H and 6.5 min just to see how the contrast is tamed with more dilute developer and some pull back in time. Will see if this opinion stays after the scans later...

Ok, here are some of my examples as developed and exposed in the above post:

 

[zsas]

Great work Rich!

 

[zsas]

After my fourth roll I think I hit my stride!! Thankfully the weather has been the same for all four rolls thus far (gray, cloudy and rainy). This last roll I shot at 25 with a yellow filter (K2). I developed in Xtol (not replenished) 1:1 for 14 minutes. This film when hit right is beautiful. I was sure jazzed to hit a few.

Camera – Yashica Linx f1.4:

Scans (auto no adjustments on my end):

A: 1/125 f1.4

B: 1/250 f1.4

Check out how sensitive this film is only one stop difference between C and D?! Wow, night and day.

C: 1/250 f2

D: 1/25 f1.4

I think this film works exceptionally on overcast days! Like all ortho not the best on skin tones (it’s a bit harsh, I saw a neg of a shot of my wife and it does not do justice to her skin color – more pink/red looks dark and harsh, it would work great for the Marlboro Man through)…

I think like others have shown, a filter is probably needed (I am enjoying my yellow K2).

I am now dreading shooting in sun, a whole other set of rules.

Look forward to more images from others!

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Thanks zsas, like yours too.

I was surprised to find the highlights in mine were fine for the most part but the shadows went deep real quick. Good news is the contrast was not as harsh as I feared shooting on such a bright and contrasty day. I look forward to trying it on a more overcast day and under more evenly lit circumstances.

Will be tweaking more with some other developers too. But I think this will prove a very nice film to work with and with great potential. With 300' to work thru there's lots of time and rolls to play with! About 1800 more exposures to be "exact"!

 

[Mark Crabtree]

Richard and Andy, it is great to see you two getting good results with this film. I'd thought the same about overcast light; this film would be great for what John Sexton calls "quiet light". You can process longer in flat light and so get a bit more speed too.

For better or worse, I am drawn to sunny days even though the light is often less than ideal when you have to cram all that range onto a sheet of paper. I think Sexton's book "Listen to the Trees" was the first I realized how hard I make things shooting in that sort of light. But I'm attracted to things for the way they look, and love stark glaring light. Hopefully I will have a chance to explore some other light too. It can be interesting to see how scenes are transformed when you can let the film/paper system loose and not have to constantly fight contrast.

The Agfa does work fine in contrasty light too, but needs to be exposed to hold the shadows with development cut to keep the contrast down. Great for bokeh fans, though the slow speed can get to be pretty limiting otherwise. But nice fine grain and good tonality when you get the combination right. The shot of the Chevy I posted is in full blazing sun on the white paint and some deep shadow. You really have to not overdevelop to keep those highlights. I'm shooting 1/125 @ 5.6. I'd call it EI 25, but it depends on how you are metering. It could even stand a touch more exposure, but there is virtually no latitude for underexposure in that situation (if you want shadow detail).

Thanks again to Field for the chance to use this film. Beyond the cheap shooting and good results, ortho is something I had already wanted to explore to help understand the tonality of some older photos.