9x12 Plate holders 1

Discussion in 'Plate Cameras and Accessories' started by Ian Grant, Jun 25, 2008.

  1. OP
    OP
    Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    19,789
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    There's an early Rollex that'll fit the camera and they are quite common. Plate holders are common as well and even ones that look quite rough clean up very easily. 9x12 films quite easy to get mail order, particularly from Europe.

    It's easy to make a new focus screen, I've replaced them on all my 9x12's.

    Ian
     
  2. puderse

    puderse Member

    Messages:
    79
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Location:
    where the west begins
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Glass for backs

    This is not the only camera that I have that needs new glass. Do you have a source for the correct thickness of glass? All I can find at DFW glass companies is thicker glass that is probably used for bathroom windows. Does one need to cannibalize one of the parts cameras in the bin?
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    19,789
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    2mm glass is used for picture framing, there's framers in almost every town. I go to trade glass merchants in the UK, he makes almost all the double glazed units etc, but also carries picture glass, here in Turkey I get off cuts from my frame supplier.

    Ian
     
  4. k.hendrik

    k.hendrik Subscriber

    Messages:
    465
    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I would like to add these film/plate holders: for the ERKO 9x12 length 139.9 width 100.4 & 4.4 mm thick. lip is 4 mm. No further info on the holders.
    pics are following.
    k.hendrik
     
  5. Keenevision

    Keenevision Member

    Messages:
    51
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Location:
    near Boston
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    So confused! Anyone venture the difference between Zeiss Ikon plates numbered 665/2 and 665/3??? Saw them both online, don't know the difference...?
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    19,789
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Well the 665/3 has straight sides (edges) with a lip on the bottom edge and is designed for 6.5x9cm film, I've seen two differing versions but they are the same fit/plate size. Somewhere I have a couple of scans with the Zeiss edges and codings I'll try and find it.

    665/7's are 9x12 holders but I'm not sure about the 665/2's they appear to also be 6.5x9 with straight sides but possibly a slightly ndifferent fit.

    Ian
     
  7. jcoldslabs

    jcoldslabs Member

    Messages:
    179
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    This is not germane to the above discussion, but should be posted here, I think. I posted it elsewhere before I saw this thread.

    The photo below is of two slide-in 9x12 ICA holders I have. They are both the same size (outer dimensions 10x15cm) but have different numbers. Strange.

    Jonathan

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Keenevision

    Keenevision Member

    Messages:
    51
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Location:
    near Boston
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Actually Jonathan that's very helpful....
    Thanks!
     
  9. bugbugbug

    bugbugbug Member

    Messages:
    15
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2010
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    The German 1931 Zeiss Ikon catalog lists the 665/3 as a 6.5x9cm plate holder. This is for the slide-in holder type cameras. The 667/2 and the 668/2 are listed as 6.5x9cm film-pack holders, not sure how they differ, but they also seem to be for the slide-in type cameras.
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    19,789
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Unfortunately some pre Zeiss Ikon cameras were still being made by factories which had come together to form Zeiss Ikon and while Zeiss rational ised slightly there were still some variations in the backs and plate holders.

    No-one has produced an article or webpage that illustrates all the variations. What doesn't help is that many holders have no numbers or makers name.

    Ian
     
  11. jcoldslabs

    jcoldslabs Member

    Messages:
    179
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Ian,

    Quite right. I have a number of holders--all 9x12cm--from various pre-Zeiss Ikon makers: Voigtlander, ICA, Contessa-Nettel, Ernemann, Nagel (Kodak), and no-name brands. I also have numerous 9x12cm holders stamped Zeiss Ikon with the same numbers as their pre-merger counterparts, and then Zeiss Ikon branded holders with new numbers.

    The double-sided pop-off wooden plate holders for my ICA Universal Palmos 275 (9x12cm) are marked 737/6. Those same holders stamped as Zeiss Ikon have the same number even after the merger. So some things changed and some did not.

    This thread is as good an attempt as any, but it would be great to pool resources and have a comprehensive database, with photos and measurements, of the various holders and sizes. But who has the time?

    Jonathan
     
  12. bugbugbug

    bugbugbug Member

    Messages:
    15
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2010
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I have the time, but I don't have anywhere near a comprehensive collection of holders. ^_^
     
  13. OP
    OP
    Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    19,789
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I suppose we could begin here on APUG with a posting asking anyone with 6.5x9, 9x12 and larger versions of similar German / European cameras to send details of the film holders and cameras.

    The shheer number of manufacturers of the metal folding 9x12 cameras will make it difficult, there's well over 30+, then there's the wooden (often tropical) and other cameras taking similar 9x12 or Quarter plate holders. I guess you'd have to stick to the metal holders as each manufacturer making wooden book-form holders made them to fit specific models and sometimes individual cameras.

    We'd need to know edge types and overal dimensions of the holders and what cameras they will fit - in terms of what camera they where made for and also what rival cameras they can be used with.

    Ian
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. jcoldslabs

    jcoldslabs Member

    Messages:
    179
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Ian,

    I would be willing to offer photos and measurements for most of the metal holders that I have. My collection is in no way comprehensive, but I have quite a few.

    When I embarked on collecting these holders (and cameras) a few years ago there was a dearth of information on-line about them. I could find a piece here and a tidbit there, but having a large collection of information in one place would have been a great help. I think photos and precise measurements would be very informative. People often give the part numbers but that doesn't help much without images to go with them.

    The question is does someone end up spearheading this outside of the APUG forums or do we rely on one forum thread to contain all the data?

    Jonathan
     
  16. OP
    OP
    Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    19,789
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'd suggest putting together something a little more comprehensive which includes the cameras themselves and the variations of lenses which is something I began collecting data for maybe 5 years ago. That would probably need to be hosted somewhere else and data collected from a variety of sources including APUG.

    Ian
     
  17. jcoldslabs

    jcoldslabs Member

    Messages:
    179
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Ian,

    Wouldn't THAT be fantastic! I am willing to contribute what I can to such an effort. I hate to pass the baton on this, but I just know I don't have the time, at least not now, to be the point person for such an endeavor.

    Jonathan
     
  18. OP
    OP
    Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    19,789
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Well I have thought about possibly setting up a website dedicated to 9x12 cameras, it's only the domain name that would cost anything as I already pay for unlimited hosting and multiple domain names.

    However I'm not a serious enough use/collector of 9x12 camera so lets start getting the ball rolling here.

    Ian
     
  19. jcoldslabs

    jcoldslabs Member

    Messages:
    179
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    I feel the same way. I love 9x12 cameras and have even been using my ICA Palmos a bit lately, but I am not a serious collector, just a guy with a few cameras and holders. Starting here is as good a place as any.

    Jonathan
     
  20. jtnewhou

    jtnewhou Member

    Messages:
    1
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned Agfa in this thread. I picked up an Agfa Isolar with only one double sided plate holder. I've had no luck searching on my own and would appreciate if anyone could point me to a thread or site that explains how to make a film sheath for the plate holder.

    I'd also like to see other Agfa 9x12 owners speak up here. I'm about to start my quest of buying cut film holders off that auction site in the hopes that eventually I'll get some that fit. I'll add some photos and measurements of the lone plate holder I have in another post if anyone is interested.
     
  21. OP
    OP
    Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    19,789
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Actually the number of manufacturers not mentioned is huge there were well over 50 companies making 9x12 cameras :laugh:

    Welcome to APUG BTW, teh best source of plate holders and film inserts is ebay.de login etc is identical to any other ebay portal but items often don't map across to the British or US portals.

    Ian
     
  22. afrank

    afrank Member

    Messages:
    125
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I sadly got 5 holder 10x~15mm x 4mm thickness for 9x12 no markings or brands perfect condition, I guess there is someone producing them now, they are like new :/.
    If only they could fit my Voigtländer Arvus which takes the filmholders with 2mm thickness on the edges! (why not trade them :wink:)

    Anyone got more info in general?

    I also found this catalog, German tho:

    http://www.fotografische.de/wp-content/uploads/rada-katalog-fotografische_de.pdf
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2012
  23. Farside

    Farside Member

    Messages:
    63
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2008
    Location:
    Ireland
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    That's absolutely marvellous, thanks!
    It sheds some light on some of the holders I've got - I was never sure or simply didn't know who made them.
    I'm also intrigued to see there was an adapter to allow 9x12 plateholders and rollfilm backs to go on to 4x5 international backs. I could have done with one of them recently. Probably like hen's teeth now, though.
     
  24. Perry Way

    Perry Way Member

    Messages:
    835
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Location:
    San Luis Obi
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'm going to sell my Voigtlander Avus in 9x12 format with 3 film holders. The film holders are the kind that have a swinging door inside, you open and slip the sheet film in then close that door before closing the film holder itself. I found that swinging door to be strange but good actually since it fits a lot more exactly and snugly than your average 4x5 film holder, there is zero chance for the film to slide around inside. Anyone have an idea what is a fair price to ask for it? Everything works on the camera, there are no light leaks in the bellows and they are supple actually. Two of the film holders were slightly bent around the edge of the film sheath to the point that there were two very slight light leaks, but.. the metal is easy to bend and I think I have the light leak solved, but haven't run any more film through it to make sure. The negative quality is outstanding on this camera! I have the original camera case but it's really beat up on the lid area. I was thinking of an asking price of $200 but want some objective opinion(s).
     
  25. ChuckP

    ChuckP Subscriber

    Messages:
    718
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2003
    Location:
    NW Chicagola
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'd say check competed auctions on Ebay. If you can wait I'd avoid selling now. I've noticed some very low prices on large format equipment. I won't tell you what I paid for my Maximar 9x12's but it was a lot less then $200. And these included filmholders with film inserts. Some of the holders were like new. Mine were good Ebay deals that are not everyday prices. I think you will be lucky to get $100 in todays market.
     
  26. iulian

    iulian Member

    Messages:
    76
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Hi everyone!

    I have a 9x12 with no markings that could give me a manufacturer. It has a 135 Xenar so it looks good :smile:
    It came with four holders and I bought four extra which fit (it must be the most common type). What I don't have is film sheaths. Has anyone found a source for those? The great auction site seems empty from what I can tell.
    I really want to use this camera on those days when the Kiev 88CM feels too high-tech :smile:

    Also, as a side-note, the four holders from the big site had sheet film in them but with no sheath. I guess someone tried using them like that and gave up. But I have film to test my idea of developing adapter for the AP tank when I get around to it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2012
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. If you have a Photrio account, please log in (and select 'stay logged in') to prevent recurrence of this notice.
,