110/16mm Camera Image Quality

[Cholentpot]

I've had a couple speed graphic boards and a 4x5 negative carrier printed (in PVA) at the local university. Their quality is quite a bit poorer than a speed graphic -> sinar 8x10 adapter I picked up off the 'bay, so be aware the quality of a 3d printed product can vary *greatly* depending on the particular printer, material, and operator. Spiral reels are particularly tricky to print given the tolerances and geometry involved.

I bit the bullet and got a hold of a Morse tank for cine lengths of 16mm a while back but we're hopefully approaching a level of sophistication in 3D printing where new Lomo reels can be minted and the yankee clippers can be retired.

Technically, the film only needs to be in the tank long enough to be developed & stopped. I un-remjet, bleach, and fix 16mm ECN-2 in trays as a matter of necessity. (Damn you, remjet!!!)

[Double-X in Tmax Dev 1+4]
View attachment 277374

My issue always turns up at the fix. Development goes fine, but for some reason, maybe the water stop blasts the film off the reel? The film has gaps in the fix.

Pentax Auto 110, Tri-x @ 100, D-76 1:1 10.5 min

Some weird artifact on the negative.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Stainless steel reels. for 16mm are easy to load and work great. --jb

Your definition of "easy" and mine are apparently very different. I had one of those and couldn't get film onto it even in the light.

For those holding off on 3D printing, you can buy a basic printer (maybe just about big enough to print a Paterson fit film reel, or maybe just barely too small -- check before spending) for under $100 these days. That's comparable to a hundred foot spool of 16 mm cine film. A kilogram spool of basic PLA filament is around $20. PLA may or may not be okay for inside a developing tank, but nearly any filament printer can also use PETG, which is perfectly fine (close relative of PET beverage bottle material). Slicing software is free, as are several 3D CAD prackages -- and neither one is anything like as demanding on your computer as good photo editing software.

Beware, though -- it's a rabbit hole. I got one the first week of May, and haven't processed a single roll of film since (though I've made a number of camera-related prints -- quick release and plate for a tripod, 35mm mask for an RB67 back, possibly one other thing I've temporarily forgotten). Once I get it to quit spontaneously restarting so I can start it and go into the darkroom with more confidence, that should improve.

 

[ciniframe]

Years ago I had a Minolta tank made for 16mm. It was bakelite but I think the reels were made out of something else. You could just push the film all the way in with ease. Mr. Clumsy here dropped the lid onto a concrete floor and that was the end of that for room light processing. Cannot remember what the obstacle was but the reels would not fit any other tank in my collection.
They are of course even more rare than the elusive #0 supplement lens.

 

[Craig75]

Your definition of "easy" and mine are apparently very different. I had one of those and couldn't get film onto it even in the light.

I had a couple of steel reels and one i could never get to work until i saw that it had something dropped on it and the reel was slightly bent. Problems of 2nd hand reels

I liked shooting 16mm but I would never escape scratches somewhere in process even with a Kiev which is probably easiest of all cameras to reload. In the end i jsut got an ultrawide for a 35mm and composed in centre of frame and slit film afterwards and put it in an enlahead. The cowards way out.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Sometimes the trick to loading steel reels with small film is to turn the film around and load it with the emulsion out. The reverse spring keeps it from collapsing on itself. Little tip for ya......

 

[Sirius Glass]

Sometimes the trick to loading steel reels with small film is to turn the film around and load it with the emulsion out. The reverse spring keeps it from collapsing on itself. Little tip for ya......

and trim the corners. By the way, life is a lot better with Hewes stainless steel reels.

 

[ciniframe]

I had a couple of steel reels and one i could never get to work until i saw that it had something dropped on it and the reel was slightly bent. Problems of 2nd hand reels

I liked shooting 16mm but I would never escape scratches somewhere in process even with a Kiev which is probably easiest of all cameras to reload. In the end i jsut got an ultrawide for a 35mm and composed in centre of frame and slit film afterwards and put it in an enlahead. The cowards way out.

Indeed! Reloading the same cartridges over and over is risky but what choice do we have. I try to blow out dust and foreign matter from my Minolta cartridges but fine (sometimes very fine) scratches still appear on the base side. In optical enlarging they may or may not show up. All the same, it can be very frustrating. I also shoot Olympus viewfinder Pen’s and Pen F and even with 35mm factory loads you can still get scratches.

 

[Cholentpot]

Indeed! Reloading the same cartridges over and over is risky but what choice do we have. I try to blow out dust and foreign matter from my Minolta cartridges but fine (sometimes very fine) scratches still appear on the base side. In optical enlarging they may or may not show up. All the same, it can be very frustrating. I also shoot Olympus viewfinder Pen’s and Pen F and even with 35mm factory loads you can still get scratches.

Sometimes the carts just end up wearing out and not working. I have a cart I had to retire because it wouldn't sit well enough to get the film plane in focus. You wouldn't know it until you developed and scanned. This now leaves me with two carts left. a 400 and a 100.

 

[jbrubaker]

Sometimes the trick to loading steel reels with small film is to turn the film around and load it with the emulsion out. The reverse spring keeps it from collapsing on itself. Little tip for ya......

Yes - this is what I've found also. --jb.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

If you want to clean your cassettes, use a Post-It note. The slightly tacky adhesive will grab anything stuck in the felt. Works too on the film gate of a Minox....

 

[ciniframe]

Sometimes the carts just end up wearing out and not working. I have a cart I had to retire because it wouldn't sit well enough to get the film plane in focus. You wouldn't know it until you developed and scanned. This now leaves me with two carts left. a 400 and a 100.

You are talking about 110 cartridges, right? Other than the felt starting to peal all my Minolta 16 cartridges operate fine. The Minolta 16 cameras have pressure plates so film should stay in focus. I've even broken the bridge on one cartridge and the two halves still worked fine.

Also to Patrick James; sounds like a good idea, I'll try it before I load film.

 

[Cholentpot]

You are talking about 110 cartridges, right? Other than the felt starting to peal all my Minolta 16 cartridges operate fine. The Minolta 16 cameras have pressure plates so film should stay in focus. I've even broken the bridge on one cartridge and the two halves still worked fine.

Also to Patrick James; sounds like a good idea, I'll try it before I load film.

Yes. 110. That and the cog can wear out and mess with the advance.

 

[Trask]

Yes - this is what I've found also. --jb.

What is the theory behind the steel reels that have the spiral wire on the bottom and only a few radial wires on the top? What’s the alleged benefit of NOT have spiral wire on both top and bottom, like a 35mm reel? Without matching spirals, the 16mm film just kind of flops around and touches itself — it’s really unsatisfactory IMHO.

 

[jbrubaker]

What is the theory behind the steel reels that have the spiral wire on the bottom and only a few radial wires on the top? What’s the alleged benefit of NOT have spiral wire on both top and bottom, like a 35mm reel? Without matching spirals, the 16mm film just kind of flops around and touches itself — it’s really unsatisfactory IMHO.

I've used this type of reel for 16mm and Minox films for years and never had a problem with the film touching itself. --jb.

 

[Cholentpot]

Auto 110, Plus-X D-76 1:1 8min

This roll got jammed up at the end and the last 10 photos were all mushed on top of each other. I suspect the cog is worn out and I swapped it. HC-110 seems to give a better look than D-76 for 16mm. I prefer D-76 for 35 and 120 but it seems the HC110 is winning here.

 

[Huss]

If you want to clean your cassettes, use a Post-It note. The slightly tacky adhesive will grab anything stuck in the felt. Works too on the film gate of a Minox....

Excellent tip!

 

[Trask]

I've used this type of reel for 16mm and Minox films for years and never had a problem with the film touching itself. --jb.

Thanks — must be my technique. Practice makes perfect...

 

[Cholentpot]

Pentax Auto 110, Plus-X

I want one of these trucks.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

Processed a cassette of E100 in the 1st & 2nd dev chemicals I used on the initial roll; mixed 7 days ago.



There is a very heavy color shift towards red, which I've seen with this stock when using stale developers.



Very much recoverable in post, however.

Edit:


No pun intended.


Thin edges indicating not enough re-exposure from some parts of the reel it seems.

 

[Cholentpot]

Processed a cassette of E100 in the 1st & 2nd dev chemicals I used on the initial roll; mixed 7 days ago.

View attachment 277702

There is a very heavy color shift towards red, which I've seen with this stock when using stale developers.

View attachment 277701

Very much recoverable in post, however.

Edit:
View attachment 277703

No pun intended.

View attachment 277705
Thin edges indicating not enough re-exposure from some parts of the reel it seems.

I see another mail truck aficionado.

 

[Huss]

Did you say mail truck?
(repost)

 

[Huss]

There's a dood bouncing around in my neighbourhood in one of those old Jeep mailtrucks. 2wd, top speed I think is only 45..
Looks really cool in that worn out beat up way.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

MG-S, shutter priority auto
Double-X in HC-110 1+47 8'







Definitely a bit of gunge stuck in the film gate (bottom of 'shoe' frame). Time to invest in some post-it notes.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Kodak RAM microfilm in a Rollei E110. Developed with Caffenol.

And one developed in POTA.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

Edit: Double-X in HC-110 as previous