110/16mm Camera Image Quality

[Huss]

I just threw that out there Huss because it is so simple, but as they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Appreciated!
Hopefully I'm good.

 

[Huss]

Is it worth bidding on a broken one in hopes that I can douse it in contact cleaner and get a working camera?

Do they give any indication as to what is broken? There's a difference between needing a little TLC and FUBAR.

 

[ciniframe]

It is night. The only time when my makeshift darkroom/laundry room are truly dark.
So....time to load some Minolta cartridges with 16mm Double-X. Probably loaded several hundred cartridges. Nothing to it.
You see where this is going. Familiarity breeds complacency, time for a reminder that I can indeed be a dumb guy.
Finish popping the the rolls in the feed chamber, tape that, thread onto take up and place in take up chamber and tape that.

Look at cartridges....something different...something wrong.

Rats!! The perfs are on the open end, not next to the bridge!
Sigh, off with the lights, unload and do over. Don't think that has happened to me in years. (And not an issue with slit down film.)

 

[Huss]

Rollei A110, Fuji Superia 200

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

Look at cartridges....something different...something wrong.

I like to call that 'accentuating the format'. Annoying if you don't want sprocket holes, but shooting the odd reverse-loaded cassette from time to time has its charm. It's a shame there aren't any native 16mm color stocks available w/o remjet. You could have sprockets AND redscale....



Decent-ish 1st test cassette from a 100' roll of E100. The meter in the MG-S is mostly bang on, even under 'artificial' daylight. Mixed E6 from scratch using the open-source 'Opie' formulas for 1st and 2nd developers with split ferricyanide bleach / fixer steps.

I'm staring at an unopened reel of Vision3 500T that I may attempt to test this evening... weather permitting.

Edit: Double-X in ice cold Parodinal 1+100, 120'.



So far my preference is either Xtol or Tmax in this format (over two other, admittedly self-mixed versions of, D96 and Parodinal). Trying HC-110 next before a darkroom showdown of all the Double-X negs thus far with a new-to-me C.E. Rokkor-X.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

.... Trying HC-110 next before a darkroom showdown of all the Double-X negs thus far with a new-to-me C.E. Rokkor-X.

The images you are getting out of the Minolta look pretty dang good. I might have to get one of those.

Did you get the 30mm Rokkor? It is a nice lens. I used one of those on a Leitz Focomat for a while to enlarge Minox until I stumbled over a Minox enlarger. I haven't tried enlarging any 16mm sized negs yet but I just started messing around with them.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Getting this microfilm figured out in a Rollei E110. Almost there. Fun to use though. I need to loosen up the focus on the camera now that the push/pull of the wind is so smooth. When I try to focus I push the wind in at times... Might do the down and dirty Huss trick. Lol.

 

[Cholentpot]

Getting this microfilm figured out in a Rollei E110. Almost there. Fun to use though. I need to loosen up the focus on the camera now that the push/pull of the wind is so smooth. When I try to focus I push the wind in at times... Might do the down and dirty Huss trick. Lol.


View attachment 277238

You're showing pretty good range for Microfilm. What did you expose at and how did you process? I don't have nearly as much tonal range.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

You're showing pretty good range for Microfilm. What did you expose at and how did you process? I don't have nearly as much tonal range.

Not sure what it is exposed at. I put a four stop ND over the meter window on the E110, but the battery is 6v instead of 5.6v and people say that affects the exposure. I am just working with what I have so absolute numbers don't matter here really. The last roll I developed in Beutler's 1:1:8 for 8 minutes. I was going to do 6 but at the last minute I added two. Should have stuck with 6. Lol. Beutler's has always given me a long straight neg without the highlights blowing and good shadow detail. it is a pretty soft developer in my experience. The first couple of rolls I shot were developed in Rodinal which could probably work if I continued with it, but I think Beutler's is better in this application.The Beutler's I used is several years old too which probably kept the development minimal as well. Next I am going to give 5 minutes a try and see if that is enough, and I think add a half stop of ND to the four I am using if I can find one in my gel pile. In other words just keep honing in on it.

Hope that helps.

 

[Huss]

Not sure what it is exposed at. I put a four stop ND over the meter window on the E110, but the battery is 6v instead of 5.6v and people say that affects the exposure...

I'm one of those that said it affects exposure, but only because I have read reports from others saying that..
The A110 also is meant to use a 5.6V battery, but works perfectly with current 6V ones. So its circuitry can apparently compensate for it.
The E110 is the budget version, but I'm wondering if it too can compensate for it. The only way to tell is to test it with a regular film cartridge.

 

[Cholentpot]

Not sure what it is exposed at. I put a four stop ND over the meter window on the E110, but the battery is 6v instead of 5.6v and people say that affects the exposure. I am just working with what I have so absolute numbers don't matter here really. The last roll I developed in Beutler's 1:1:8 for 8 minutes. I was going to do 6 but at the last minute I added two. Should have stuck with 6. Lol. Beutler's has always given me a long straight neg without the highlights blowing and good shadow detail. it is a pretty soft developer in my experience. The first couple of rolls I shot were developed in Rodinal which could probably work if I continued with it, but I think Beutler's is better in this application.The Beutler's I used is several years old too which probably kept the development minimal as well. Next I am going to give 5 minutes a try and see if that is enough, and I think add a half stop of ND to the four I am using if I can find one in my gel pile. In other words just keep honing in on it.

Hope that helps.

Thanks.

Just developed two rolls. !@#!!@! Yankee Reels!

One roll got messed up, there's gotta be a better way! I look on ebay and the patterson style 110 reels are up to $50 plus shipping! This is very frustrating. Are there metal 110 reels? As much as I hate metal reels it's gotta be better than the Yankee.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

The images you are getting out of the Minolta look pretty dang good. I might have to get one of those.

Did you get the 30mm Rokkor? It is a nice lens. I used one of those on a Leitz Focomat for a while to enlarge Minox until I stumbled over a Minox enlarger. I haven't tried enlarging any 16mm sized negs yet but I just started messing around with them.

Yep; it is very similar in design to the 30mm f2.8 in an Olympus Pen S... no mirror no problem. Well-suited to 12x17mm negs as well as printing from crops of larger formats.


Vision3 500T in daylight with an orange (NOT 85 tungsten->daylight) haphazardly held in front of the taking lens.


Color balance is fine under actual tungsten.


Eastman's Tomb

Remjet is a scourge.



Butter is better.

 

[ciniframe]

Thanks.

Just developed two rolls. !@#!!@! Yankee Reels!

One roll got messed up, there's gotta be a better way! I look on ebay and the patterson style 110 reels are up to $50 plus shipping! This is very frustrating. Are there metal 110 reels? As much as I hate metal reels it's gotta be better than the Yankee.

I have an older Yankee Master tank. Had it for 20 years and although the price for used ones on ebay have gone up to about $50 I’d get another one if I had to. Years ago I had the Yankee Clipper tank and if that is the one you have, my condolences. It’s very poorly made.
There are also modifications that can be done to Patterson reels and one of the tutorials I looked at seemed viable. If I were starting today I’d also consider buying a Patterson and making the modifications necessary.
Another thing to consider is removing the steel ball bearings and just pushing the 18 to 20 inches of film into the spiral. That should work if the reels are completely dry.

 

[Cholentpot]

I have an older Yankee Master tank. Had it for 20 years and although the price for used ones on ebay have gone up to about $50 I’d get another one if I had to. Years ago I had the Yankee Clipper tank and if that is the one you have, my condolences. It’s very poorly made.
There are also modifications that can be done to Patterson reels and one of the tutorials I looked at seemed viable. If I were starting today I’d also consider buying a Patterson and making the modifications necessary.
Another thing to consider is removing the steel ball bearings and just pushing the 18 to 20 inches of film into the spiral. That should work if the reels are completely dry.

I'm not handy enough to modify Pattersons. I have one reliable Clipper, the other ones are iffy. Very annoying.

Might be easier to build a 2 foot long pipe with light baffles and a drain on the bottom. Hang the film inside and develop. It would use loads of chemistry though...

 

[Patrick Robert James]

The metal reels I have, both Nikkor and another kind, are a PITA too. Modifying a plastic reel seems the way to go. If I start doing more 16mm I'll pick up some reels and modify them. I could swear that I saw that one of the plastic reel types just needs to be trimmed and it works as normal for 16mm.

The other alternative is to 3d print some reels. Some people are doing that and they say it is working.

One thing you might consider is to fix out a roll or two of 35mm film then tape the 16mm film emulsion side out to the 35mm. You can then just use a 35mm reel. I did that when I first started developing Minox. Takes some time to do but it is a solid method. Tape one end then start rolling it on. When you reach the other end pull the 16mm film tight and tape it up. You might even be able to get two rolls on one this way.

 

[Cholentpot]

The metal reels I have, both Nikkor and another kind, are a PITA too. Modifying a plastic reel seems the way to go. If I start doing more 16mm I'll pick up some reels and modify them. I could swear that I saw that one of the plastic reel types just needs to be trimmed and it works as normal for 16mm.

The other alternative is to 3d print some reels. Some people are doing that and they say it is working.

One thing you might consider is to fix out a roll or two of 35mm film then tape the 16mm film emulsion side out to the 35mm. You can then just use a 35mm reel. I did that when I first started developing Minox. Takes some time to do but it is a solid method. Tape one end then start rolling it on. When you reach the other end pull the 16mm film tight and tape it up. You might even be able to get two rolls on one this way.

The 35mm is an idea. Sounds messy but it might work. I'm not involved in 3D printing so that ones is out for me.

 

[Cholentpot]

Kiev 30, Plus-X shot at 100, D-76 1:1 8.5 min. Looks like the film held its speed even a decade out.

 

[Huss]

Nice! I find that film keeps a loooong time as long as it is kept cold.

 

[Cholentpot]

Kiev 30, Plus-X shot at 100, D-76 1:1 8.5 min. Wide open, close focused. I noticed that people up the sharpening way up when using Negative lab Pro. Somewhere like 75 for amount and 50 for detail. It certainly brings out the grain which otherwise looks like mush. Is this commonly done?

 

[xya]

Thanks.

Just developed two rolls. !@#!!@! Yankee Reels!

One roll got messed up, there's gotta be a better way! I look on ebay and the patterson style 110 reels are up to $50 plus shipping! This is very frustrating. Are there metal 110 reels? As much as I hate metal reels it's gotta be better than the Yankee.

just build your own from an ordinary 35mm jobo. it's 10 minutes and a dremel or a saw... https://www.subcompactcam.com/110_16mm_jobo_reel_diy.htm

 

[Donald Qualls]

Or, if you have access to a machine, 3D print one to fit Jobo, Paterson, or a completely 3D printed developing tank.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4809191 (Jobo)
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4638159 (Jobo)
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4461513 (Paterson)
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4252926 (not sure what this fits)

Tank:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3726422

Got cine length?
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4715086

There might be others (perhaps on other sites), but these are the ones I've found just on Thingiverse.

 

[Cholentpot]

just build your own from an ordinary 35mm jobo. it's 10 minutes and a dremel or a saw... https://www.subcompactcam.com/110_16mm_jobo_reel_diy.htm

Nice guide. I'd butcher a handful before I got one that works sometimes. I'm just not good with that kind of thing.

Or, if you have access to a machine, 3D print one to fit Jobo, Paterson, or a completely 3D printed developing tank.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4809191 (Jobo)
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4638159 (Jobo)
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4461513 (Paterson)
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4252926 (not sure what this fits)

Tank:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3726422

Got cine length?
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4715086

There might be others (perhaps on other sites), but these are the ones I've found just on Thingiverse.

I don't have a 3D printer. The library has one but I don't even know where to start...but wait! I think I can just submit a file and they'll print it for me at .10 a gram. This needs looking into...

 

[jbrubaker]

Thanks.

Just developed two rolls. !@#!!@! Yankee Reels!

One roll got messed up, there's gotta be a better way! I look on ebay and the patterson style 110 reels are up to $50 plus shipping! This is very frustrating. Are there metal 110 reels? As much as I hate metal reels it's gotta be better than the Yankee.

Stainless steel reels. for 16mm are easy to load and work great. --jb

 

[Cholentpot]

Stainless steel reels. for 16mm are easy to load and work great. --jb

Where do I find a few of these?

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

I don't have a 3D printer. The library has one but I don't even know where to start...but wait! I think I can just submit a file and they'll print it for me at .10 a gram. This needs looking into...

I've had a couple speed graphic boards and a 4x5 negative carrier printed (in PVA) at the local university. Their quality is quite a bit poorer than a speed graphic -> sinar 8x10 adapter I picked up off the 'bay, so be aware the quality of a 3d printed product can vary *greatly* depending on the particular printer, material, and operator. Spiral reels are particularly tricky to print given the tolerances and geometry involved.

I bit the bullet and got a hold of a Morse tank for cine lengths of 16mm a while back but we're hopefully approaching a level of sophistication in 3D printing where new Lomo reels can be minted and the yankee clippers can be retired.

Technically, the film only needs to be in the tank long enough to be developed & stopped. I un-remjet, bleach, and fix 16mm ECN-2 in trays as a matter of necessity. (Damn you, remjet!!!)

[Double-X in Tmax Dev 1+4]