The Toner Thread

NedL · Dec 13, 2017

I have a question. I know that sulfide and thiourea toners will tone silver bromide, regardless of whether it's exposed. What other toners behave that way? Selenium: if it was KRST, the amm. thiosulfate would dissolve undeveloped AgBr, so not this one, right ? Iron blue toner ( AFC + pot ferri + weak acid )? Copper toner ( copper sulfate + pot ferri + K-citrate or maybe Na-citrate )? Any others?

Are there other fogging agents that aren't used as toners?

Louis Nargi · Dec 14, 2017

interesting thread

esearing · Jan 10, 2018

Experimenting with the PF Nelson Gold Toner Kit. Kit is a bit cumbersome to mix and toning solution is used at 100-110 degrees (if possible). The toner is slow working so you can pull at any stage from barely noticeable change in highlights around 10minutes to full brown toning. Full toning is achieved in about 20 minutes and has about the same brown tone as Thiourea when using the brown tone mixtures with more activator. There is some loss of density so a slightly darker print should be used.

Example: Overprinted image on Ilford MGFB Warmtone, developed in LPD 1:2, Gold toned for 12mins at 110 degrees falling to mid 90s + 3 minutes selenium 1:20 . The light brown tones dried down darker than I expected so 10Minutes may have been adequate.

studiocarter · Feb 18, 2018

I have reversed 16mm tri-X 7266 then Selenium toned it. It went from a greenish color to a darker purple. Nice. My last video shows the two effects at the end. https://m.youtube.com/user/studiocarter1 How far can this idea go? Can Lomo Purple be made using toners? How strong of colors can be made on reversal movie film that is b & w?

adelorenzo · Feb 12, 2019

I tried the IT-8 toner on a few prints last night. On Ilford Classic FB paper I found it gives more of a brown tone than an olive tone but still really nice. Also punches up the print a bit. Got more of an olive tone on warm toned Foma paper. I'm going to try it soon with Ilford Warmtone and Art 300. I'll post some pictures soon as I get some more work done with it.

A couple of questions for @Ian Grant or anyone else who has worked with this toner:

Is it possible to split tone with sepia sulfide? I was thinking of bleaching and redeveloping fully in the IT8 toner, then slightly bleaching the highlights again for development in sulfide.
Would the bichromate bleach work with sulfide or other bleach toners?

Ian Grant · Feb 13, 2019

adelorenzo said:
I tried the IT-8 toner on a few prints last night. On Ilford Classic FB paper I found it gives more of a brown tone than an olive tone but still really nice. Also punches up the print a bit. Got more of an olive tone on warm toned Foma paper. I'm going to try it soon with Ilford Warmtone and Art 300. I'll post some pictures soon as I get some more work done with it.

A couple of questions for @Ian Grant or anyone else who has worked with this toner:

Is it possible to split tone with sepia sulfide? I was thinking of bleaching and redeveloping fully in the IT8 toner, then slightly bleaching the highlights again for development in sulfide.

Would the bichromate bleach work with sulfide or other bleach toners?

It should be possible to split tone with Sulphide, just remember though that the Dichromate bleach of IT-8 is itself adding colour to the tones, it's the same as a Chromium Intensifier.

The actual colour of the tomes will depend on the paper, when I first ried IT-8 it was with Ilford Ilfospeed which adn't been around long, I still have the print which has a definite olive brown tone, later prints on Polywarmtone toned in IT-8 aren't that different in colour.

Ian

Anon Ymous · Feb 13, 2019

Wouldn't order matter in this case? If you tone in sulfide first, then there will be nothing to tone in the IT8 developer. Also, am I right in assuming that the bichromate bleach isn't absolutely necessary and it can be replaced by a ferricyanide one?

Ian Grant · Feb 13, 2019

Anon Ymous said:
Wouldn't order matter in this case? If you tone in sulfide first, then there will be nothing to tone in the IT8 developer. Also, am I right in assuming that the bichromate bleach isn't absolutely necessary and it can be replaced by a ferricyanide one?

It'd need some experimenting, we are talking about partial bleaching not full, the only issue is Sulphide toning can prevent re-bleaching depending on how long a print stays in the toner bath.

Ian

adelorenzo · Feb 18, 2019

Here is the result I am getting with IT-8 using Ilford Classic FB paper. I quite like it.

esearing · Mar 3, 2019

Nice! I am wondering if the warm brown tone remains when using a non staining ferri/bromide bleach

alyks42 · Mar 14, 2019

adelorenzo said:
I tried the IT-8 toner on a few prints last night. On Ilford Classic FB paper I found it gives more of a brown tone than an olive tone but still really nice. Also punches up the print a bit. Got more of an olive tone on warm toned Foma paper. I'm going to try it soon with Ilford Warmtone and Art 300. I'll post some pictures soon as I get some more work done with it.

A couple of questions for @Ian Grant or anyone else who has worked with this toner:

Is it possible to split tone with sepia sulfide? I was thinking of bleaching and redeveloping fully in the IT8 toner, then slightly bleaching the highlights again for development in sulfide.

Would the bichromate bleach work with sulfide or other bleach toners?

I asked Ian the very same question. The best result I got was from toning in it-8 followed by a partial toning in polysulfide on warmtone paper. Foma is a bit unpredictable with it-8, especially when lith printing beforehand. Ilford wt was more consistent.

JPD · Apr 19, 2019

Do odorless brown toners produce sulphide gas, or are they safe to use near film and paper?

NedL · Apr 19, 2019

I haven't used thiourea very much as a toner, but have used it quite a bit as a redeveloper. When it is developing a bleached print, there is not much H2S smell, but I noticed a little rotten egg smell when it goes into the wash water after that. Even after a long wash there also seems to be a little H2S when it goes into fixer after that. After the 1st time I noticed the smell, I started doing all the processing outside. I don't know if it would be enough to harm paper or film, but it can release a little.

koraks · Apr 20, 2019

JPD said:
Do odorless brown toners produce sulphide gas, or are they safe to use near film and paper?

I never noticed anything to that effect, despite using thiourea toner regularly.

Stephen Prunier · Apr 20, 2019

I would like to start toning my prints. Everyone talks about the smell that is given off. Does anyone (weather permitting) tone their prints while outdoors? I was also thinking of setting up a table by an exterior door with a fan next to the door to help draw the smell out. Or am I thinking that the smell is a lot worse than it is? My darkroom is in a spare bedroom so I'm trying to think of alternative locations for toning prints.
As always, Thanks

koraks · Apr 20, 2019

What toner(s) do you intend to use?

Stephen Prunier · Apr 20, 2019

koraks said:
What toner(s) do you intend to use?

I'm thinking Kodak RST to start. Doing it mostly for archival purposes.

JPD · Apr 20, 2019

Stephen Prunier said:
I'm thinking Kodak RST to start. Doing it mostly for archival purposes.

KRST has an ammonia smell but isn't that bad. Sulphide brown toners smell worse and the gas can fog film and papers or contribute to yellowing in prints.

MattKing · Apr 20, 2019

Stephen Prunier said:
I would like to start toning my prints. Everyone talks about the smell that is given off. Does anyone (weather permitting) tone their prints while outdoors? I was also thinking of setting up a table by an exterior door with a fan next to the door to help draw the smell out. Or am I thinking that the smell is a lot worse than it is? My darkroom is in a spare bedroom so I'm trying to think of alternative locations for toning prints.
As always, Thanks

In good weather, I tone out on our deck.
In bad weather, I tone in a room that has a couple of screened windows that I can open.
Some toners, like the sepia toners, smell bad.
Some hardly smell at all.

koraks · Apr 21, 2019

I find the smell of selenium toner to be quite manageable, but I generally use a small volume of toner, say up to 100ml, usually at around 1+10 dilution.

Note that for archival puposes toning must be taken to completion, and in that scenario it will almost always significantly affect the tone and density distribution of the print.

Stephen Prunier · Apr 21, 2019

Thanks for the info. It sounds like I don't need to worry so much and just try it.

koraks · Apr 21, 2019

Yeah, just give it a go. If the ammonia smell of the KRST bothers you, it's easy enough to find a solution.

esearing · May 11, 2019

I finally ran my tests based on the tonality Adelorenzo images above. Processed MGFB Classic Glossy in Ansco 130, +stop+Ilford rapid fix and let it dry for a few days. I cut two images in half , one with low contrast and another with high contrast.
Bleached using aged Bromoil bleach which contains Potasium Dicromate, Copper Sulfate, and Potassium Bromide. The image bleached fully as usual except for the deepest tones and they went to a medium brown. Washed after bleaching for about 5 minutes.
I then prepared Pyrocat M 10A:10B:1000W at 75*. Pyrocat M has a small amount of Metol(2.5g/liter) and is mostly Catchetol (50g/Liter).
I put the bleached and washed halves into the developer. After a couple of minutes the dark tones came back but the middle tones and highlights were a muddy gray bleached blah tone.
I left it the developer for a full 15 minutes before the highlights came back. I probably had too dilute a developer but I was only working with 2 halves of an 8x10.
Lo and behold my results are similar to Adelorenzo - A shift to a nice warm rich tone yet not really brown like you get with thiourea, with light staining in white areas. Most noticeable in mid tones and dark tones.
I will scan and post photos when dry.

esearing · Jul 1, 2019

This is my latest attempt using a Pot-Ferri bleach on a low contrast image until all but the darkest shades are gone, redeveloped using Pyrocat M 5:5:500 for about 5 minutes. On Ilford MGFB Classic Glossy.
The scanner is picking up more color separation than I see in normal room light but i adjusted somewhat so you could see the staining of the paper on the right edges and still be close to the actual color effect.
It is warmer toward brown - olive, but not as strong a color shift as Thiourea 40T/60H would be. On a darker image it an even look a little richer brown.

rubbernglue · Jul 9, 2019

A couple of months ago I bought myself (yet another) darkroom and among all stuff there was this Tetenal MULTITONER kit, and I am not able to find much information about this at all. Not one picture in google so far which resembles my actual bottles. I have found one multitoner-kit in different bottles:
[URL]http://www.vanbar.com.au/catalogue/product.php?id=115201#overview[/url]
which says in the bottom...

MULTITONER KIT prof. For direct and indirect toning of up to 6m2 of b/w paper. Complete kit includes: 3 x toner solution, 1 x bleach, 1 x colour developer and 1 x bleach fix bath

And then I found a scanned paper on ebay, which after a google-translate in short states:

...A complete set of working articles (Part No. 4808) and a partial working set (Part No. 4809) are supplied. In the subset, the toning solutions that can be purchased individually are not included...

So now is the question, Did the previous owner buy half a kit? And is there anything I can do with this kit, can it be completed in some way? Does anyone recognize it? As seen here, my kit is not the exact one mentioned above (4808 & 4809) but at least close

The Toner Thread

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