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fgorga

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The retired chemistry professor in me sees a teaching moment here. 😉

The "mole" is exactly analogous to the "dozen". The only difference is scale. A dozen is defined as 12 things. A mole is defined as "a very large number" of things; 6.022x10^23 (an Avagadro's number) of things to be exact.

If you want to build a dozen cars you would need (among other things) a dozen engines and four dozen wheels/tires. If you want to build a dozen methane molecules you would need a dozen carbon atoms and four dozen hydrogen atoms.

Making a dozen cars might make sense and it would be easy to count out the required number of parts as they are macroscopic.

Making a dozen methane molecules is silly... that amount of material is way too small to be useful. Furthermore atoms/molecules are too small to be counted individually (at least in any convenient manner).

So, instead of counting atoms/molecules individually, we use their mass and weigh out macroscopic collections of them. In order to do this we need to know the molar mass (the factor for converting between count, i.e. moles, and mass) of each type of atom or molecule.

Fortunately the molar mass is easy to determine if one has a periodic table. The molar mass of atoms is equal to their atomic weight which is listed on the periodic table. For molecules/compounds, just add the atomic masses of the components to arrive at the molar mass.

Thus 1 mole (12 g) of carbon plus 4 moles of hydrogen (4 x 1 g = 4 g) will yield 1 mole of methane which weighs 16 grams (12 + 4).

One could do the same thing with automobiles if one wanted as long as you know the weight of each component. If you know that engines weigh 200 kg each and wheel/tires weigh 25 kg each. Then the "dozen mass" of engines would be 2,400 kg (12x200) and the "dozen mass" of wheels/tires would be 300 kg (12x25).

Thus to make a dozen autos, you could weigh out 2,400 kg of engines and 300 kg of tires/wheels and you would know that you had enough of each to make a dozen autos.

Of course, if you simply follow photographic recipes one can ignore moles and just use the specified weights. It is not that moles are unimportant just that someone else has done the conversion from moles to grams for you.

The problem comes in if you want to make changes to a recipe. For instance, if you want to use a potassium salt instead of the sodium salt called for in the recipe. Now moles become important because the conversion factor (molar mass) changes.

To use the auto example, say you changed from tires/wheels weighing 25 kg each to fancy aluminum tire/wheels that weigh only 20 kg each. If you weighed out 300 kg of tires/wheels your would have 15 of them (300/20 = 15) instead of the dozen (12) you need.

This would be wasteful at a minimum. For a chemical reaction the excess (or deficit) of a particular component might well change the outcome of the reaction/procedure. Thus the need to adjust the recipe.

Hopefully... maybe?... this helps to explain the chemical concepts.
 

fgorga

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@nmp and @Patrick Robert James absolutely no need to 'apologize' for making/presenting/sending cyanotypes.

The prejudice of cyanotype as a beginners process or 'gateway drug' 🙂 to alt process work is just that... prejudice.

As the prints you both have shown (above) recently beautiful work can be done in cyanotype.

I look forward to seeing the prints in person.
 
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One image, two prints, three processes.

Portal from my series In Search of Grandeur.

The first print is gum over palladium-toned kallitype, the second print is tri-colour cyanotype.

I quite like both of them and my preference would likely depend on the day I'm having. I'm very interested in how the printing method changes the feel and perception of an image.It's quite easily seen in these two prints. Often, people ask themselves which monochrome process they should print an image in, but I don't see a whole lot of discussion about this in colour printing processes.

I'm interested in your views. Any preference? If so, why? Thanks.

Portal.jpg
In Search of Grandeur - Tri-colour Cyanotype - Portal_FB.jpg
 

koraks

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Any preference?

I prefer the second; it conveys a lightness that the other one lacks. The wall socket/light switch is also less prominent, but that's a minor grievance.

Both are really, really nice prints! I saw the cyanotype the other day in the other thread and I think I actually might have a go at it. Thanks for inspiring me!
 
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Rolleiflexible

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Jo, I‘ll make it a chorus and sing the praises of the tricolor cyanotype. As Koraks said, it has a lightness that lifts the viewer’s sense of the image. I like the first print but I would hang the second on my wall.

I hope you don’t mind me connecting the dots, but I found your online explanation of the tricolor cyanotype most informative, and I am pasting a link in this post for the group’s benefit.

 
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nmp

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One image, two prints, three processes.

Portal from my series In Search of Grandeur.

The first print is gum over palladium-toned kallitype, the second print is tri-colour cyanotype.

I quite like both of them and my preference would likely depend on the day I'm having. I'm very interested in how the printing method changes the feel and perception of an image.It's quite easily seen in these two prints. Often, people ask themselves which monochrome process they should print an image in, but I don't see a whole lot of discussion about this in colour printing processes.

I'm interested in your views. Any preference? If so, why? Thanks.

View attachment 371573 View attachment 371574

I too like them both - but as you I might like one better than the other depending the mood. However, I might split the baby and say that each can use the attribute of the other - which might perhaps enhance both. In the first one I would have made the crack of the door much lighter, similar to the second one. Similarly, I would have increased the density in the foreground to lead the eye to the subject and the crack in the door - perhaps by adding one more layer of bleached cyano. Then again, if this is the high-key vision you are looking for, then it's fine - that's your artistic choice.

This gives me an idea - and I am taking liberty here (if you object please let me know and I will delete the following.) I blended 50% of the 1st image to the second one and this is what I get:

Portal_composite.jpg


Just some Photoshop trickery.

:Niranjan.
 
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fgorga

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I'll add to the chorus in liking the second one best. It has a light airy feel that suits the subject, I think.

My feeling in looking at the first print is that the woman is fleeing something. In the second print I get the feeling that she is heading out to a party.

It is quite amazing to me that different prints of the same image can invoke two very different emotions/reactions.
 
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nmp

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Thanks Niranjan. Are you talking about the raw weights of the chemicals themselves? So 5g:5g?

I'll have to try something diffferent. I've been doing it the same way since I started years ago.

Sorry, I forgot to answer you because of all the "weed"......🙂

Conventionally, what folks do typically (and I don't know what you do) is make a 20% w/v (20 gm per 100 ml) of FAC and 8% w/v (8 gm per 100 ml) KFi. Then mix 1:1 of the two by using drop counts. This gives FAC to KFi weight ratio of 20/8 = 2.5. What I do is make 20% w/w of both FAC and KFi (20 gm per 100 gm total) and mix 1.75 gm of FAC solution to 1 gm of KFi solution. This gives FAC to KFi weight ratio of 1.75. It also gives me total concentration of 20% solids whereas in the earlier example, that number would be (20+8)/2 =14%. So my concoction is significantly more viscous.

Hope this helps.

:Niranjan.
 

TheFlyingCamera

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I'll post images later today (I'm on my lunch break ATM) but I did want to toot my own horn a tad - I have palladium prints going in to TWO shows at the same time in Mexico City - two prints in a show at Eucalipto20, an independent art center in the Santa Maria Ribera neighborhood, and six prints going into a show entitled "Geografia del Cuerpo" (Geography of the Body) at the Museo Archivo de la Fotografia (MAF), which is just off the Zocalo behind the Catedral Metropolitana and overlooking the Templo Mayor ruins. The Eucalipto 20 show opens on the 22nd of June, and the MAF show opens June 26. I will be participating in an artists round-table at Eucalipto20 on the 25th from 5-7 PM, and attending the opening reception at MAF on the 26th from 5-7pm. If any of you are in the neighborhood between June 22nd and July 18, please visit the shows, and if you can make it to the talk or reception, please come say hi!
 

tnp651

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One image, two prints, three processes.

Portal from my series In Search of Grandeur.

The first print is gum over palladium-toned kallitype, the second print is tri-colour cyanotype.

I quite like both of them and my preference would likely depend on the day I'm having. I'm very interested in how the printing method changes the feel and perception of an image.It's quite easily seen in these two prints. Often, people ask themselves which monochrome process they should print an image in, but I don't see a whole lot of discussion about this in colour printing processes.

I'm interested in your views. Any preference? If so, why? Thanks.

View attachment 371573 View attachment 371574

I prefer the first one. For me, not many images work well in blue tone. The browner image also has a more antique feel, which I like.
 
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I prefer the second; it conveys a lightness that the other one lacks.
Jo, I‘ll make it a chorus and sing the praises of the tricolor cyanotype. As Koraks said, it has a lightness that lifts the viewer’s sense of the image.
Thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback. I find it quite illustrative to print an image in multiple processes to see how different they come out. The mentioning of "lightness" is an interesting one. I'm not exactly sure how to place it in the context of my vision for this image.
I had my partner run at least 30 times at the door to push it open. I had a very specific image in mind. I wanted her to push the door open quite forcefully (which took a bit of practice, hahaha), like she was bursting into the room behind in a rage. In that context, "lightness" is a strange association.

My feeling in looking at the first print is that the woman is fleeing something. In the second print I get the feeling that she is heading out to a party.
I find this very interesting, Frank. My intention for this image sits probably right in between those two. She has authority (or at least self confidence), so in my mind's eye, she's not fleeing per se. But she's more likely to confront somebody behind these doors in a rage. Definitely not going to a party. But, of course, nobody knows my intention by looking at the picture alone. However, I find it very interesting, that the two versions convey such different stories.
Which leads me to
This gives me an idea - and I am taking liberty here (if you object please let me know and I will delete the following.) I blended 50% of the 1st image to the second one and this is what I get:
No objection at all, Niranjan. I actually appreciate this. Following on from my previous paragraph, this might actually be the closest to the original intention. And I like the result. Oh, if it just were so easy to physically print (with multiple processes) what we can do seemingly effortless on a computer screen ;-).
One additional reasons for the difference between the images is surely also, that I'm not that much of a gum printer. I wish I was. I really try. But I fail so often, it borders on masochism to push on with it. (Multi-coloured) cyanotypes and pt/pd or silver iron process seem so much easier to me...
I was actually very surprised when the gum version of this print was accepted into the same exhibition as Bob's much more accomplished print.
 
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Rolleiflexible

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Since this seems to be the Thinking Person's corner of Photrio, let me ask a question here.

I am working on a new series of nudes. I appreciate that a number of members would prefer not to be confronted with nudes. I want to honor that preference. I proposed a solution that would have allowed members to filter nude content from their feed, but was hooted down for proposing "censorship." Ironically, I had made the proposal to make it easier to post nudes to the site.

So now I am not sure what to do. I am printing the photos now as kallitypes, as an easy way to proof them and decide which to keep and which need work. My ultimate plan is to print the series as photogravures. But in the meantime I have a lot of kallitypes in the hopper. And I have no easy avenue for testing the response to these prints.

I had these ideas.

1. I could post them here, and hide them behind a Spoiler tag, so you would have to click on the Spoiler icon to see the image. See below for an example. This seems coy to me.

2. I could start a new "Post your NSFW photos here" thread. I fear that such a thread will bring out the juvenile and/or flamethrowing members, and not be terribly useful.

3. I could continue to relegate the prints to the flat file.

I can muddle along without sharing the prints. But I am reaching a point where I could use a reality check.

Example below.

Angela.jpg
 

TheFlyingCamera

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Since this seems to be the Thinking Person's corner of Photrio, let me ask a question here.

I am working on a new series of nudes. I appreciate that a number of members would prefer not to be confronted with nudes. I want to honor that preference. I proposed a solution that would have allowed members to filter nude content from their feed, but was hooted down for proposing "censorship." Ironically, I had made the proposal to make it easier to post nudes to the site.

So now I am not sure what to do. I am printing the photos now as kallitypes, as an easy way to proof them and decide which to keep and which need work. My ultimate plan is to print the series as photogravures. But in the meantime I have a lot of kallitypes in the hopper. And I have no easy avenue for testing the response to these prints.

I had these ideas.

1. I could post them here, and hide them behind a Spoiler tag, so you would have to click on the Spoiler icon to see the image. See below for an example. This seems coy to me.

2. I could start a new "Post your NSFW photos here" thread. I fear that such a thread will bring out the juvenile and/or flamethrowing members, and not be terribly useful.

3. I could continue to relegate the prints to the flat file.

I can muddle along without sharing the prints. But I am reaching a point where I could use a reality check.

Example below.

Sanders- Option 3 - you could identify a few souls whose opinions you trust and share them privately. Given the degree of juvenile behavior potential (both from the "wink-wink-nudge-nudge" crowd and the "I don't want to see that" crowd), that might be the better option anyway if you're looking for considered, serious feedback. Putting anything out in public is inviting unfiltered reactions and most of those are not helpful.
 

MattKing

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3. I could continue to relegate the prints to the flat file.

Sanders,
No!!!
You have expressed a commendable desire to honour the wishes of those who don't want to see nudity. The Spoiler tag isn't "coy", it is an exercise of care for the wishes of others, while giving everyone the ability to choose to see nudity.
And if anyone complains about people being able to see nudity if they so choose, Report them.
 

NedL

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I don't have a suggestion, but I do have a comment. Some years ago APUG member Emil Schildt ( gandolfi ) left the site with bad feelings after responses to some of his prints. To me it was kind of disastrous... he made bromoil prints in a unique way and I learned so much from his posts and from his beautiful artistic prints and his use of soft focus lenses. He's since come back to photrio, but I don't think he's very active printing any longer. Anyway, I don't want to see that situation repeated because I like seeing your prints. I'm especially enjoying seeing your foray into photogravure. I don't know what Scott ( Flying Camera ) has experienced along these lines here at photrio... but I'd trust his experience/advice too. I do like Matt's response: if anyone complains about choosing themselves to see nudity, report them.

It would be fine with me if they were in the gallery, but it's considerate of you to worry about other's sensitivities. I don't think the spoiler is particularly coy... it's respectful. Just have a thick skin and don't let any responses get to you!
 

Rolleiflexible

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Emil Schildt

I loved @gandolfi 's photographs. If I remember correctly, he had a book called Kill Your Darlings in which he mutilated his negatives to come up with new ways of seeing and presenting his subjects. I thought he was great. I wasn't aware that he had left in frustration, but I do know he has had to deal with hardships that have deprived him of his ability to make new photographs. Which is a great loss for us.

And thank you for the compliment -- I am grateful.
 

Rolleiflexible

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Okay, let me give this a whirl. Here's a kallitype, toned in platinum. I shared this with two other photographers. They gave diametrically opposite opinions. If you have thoughts, I would like to hear them.

Madeleine4179.jpg
 
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Sanders, I would just post them. That is what I do. But then again, I don't really care about what most people say. There are only a few people about whose opinion you should really care. Those are the ones for whom you post. Most others are just creating noise to hear themselves make noise. Seems to me you are thinking about it too much.
 

TheFlyingCamera

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Okay, let me give this a whirl. Here's a kallitype, toned in platinum. I shared this with two other photographers. They gave diametrically opposite opinions. If you have thoughts, I would like to hear them.


I like it. I think the color tones work well with the patterns of light on skin, and I like the skin textures you capture.
 

TheFlyingCamera

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I don't have a suggestion, but I do have a comment. Some years ago APUG member Emil Schildt ( gandolfi ) left the site with bad feelings after responses to some of his prints. To me it was kind of disastrous... he made bromoil prints in a unique way and I learned so much from his posts and from his beautiful artistic prints and his use of soft focus lenses. He's since come back to photrio, but I don't think he's very active printing any longer. Anyway, I don't want to see that situation repeated because I like seeing your prints. I'm especially enjoying seeing your foray into photogravure. I don't know what Scott ( Flying Camera ) has experienced along these lines here at photrio... but I'd trust his experience/advice too. I do like Matt's response: if anyone complains about choosing themselves to see nudity, report them.

It would be fine with me if they were in the gallery, but it's considerate of you to worry about other's sensitivities. I don't think the spoiler is particularly coy... it's respectful. Just have a thick skin and don't let any responses get to you!

Ned- if you really want to see what it was like, go back through my gallery and find the image of "Felipe". And read the 50+ comments. Also note the hypocrisy because it's the 3rd most viewed image on the site, IIRC. And at one point, I actually received a death threat in the form of a bible quote because I was posting male nudes. But that's ancient history now.
 
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1. I could post them here, and hide them behind a Spoiler tag, so you would have to click on the Spoiler icon to see the image. See below for an example. This seems coy to me.

Sanders, I don't find it coy to post behind a spoiler tag (even though it took me a moment to realise which picture you were talking about and that I had to actually do something to see the image - total noob, I know)... To me it seems like a pretty acceptable and sensible compromise...

As for the two images:
The first one seems to me like a more 'classic' framing (and I don't really find much to say here, besides that I admire the image and print), while the second one I find rather unusual with the half face in the frame. While it somehow 'bothers' me, it also works in its favour since it attracts my attention due to the unfamiliar look of it. The light streaks are a classic theme, but they do seem to be going in different directions here, which causes some unease (strengthening the feeling caused by the half face). I really, really like the softness of the light across the face. That's just beautiful.

A more general question to your goals with these images. I must admit that I'm not very familiar with photogravure, but what I think works on these two prints really well is the softness, while retaining sharpness. All the detail is there, but the image has a gentleness. Do photogravures retain that softness or do they make the image sharper/harder?

Anyhow, please keep posting these. They are inspirational.
 
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