Showcase for Your HCWP's

Vaughn · Dec 10, 2023

Great accident, Sanders. And like you said, difficult to reproduce the 'error'. I had a similar issue with a carbon print, although the opposite...the person's head was the only part the was soft (but not facing the camera and the figure was a smaller part of the total image than yours). Kept the print, but reprinted it. Years later, I have come to actually like the blurred version equally, but have not shown it...more of a personal liking.

Rolleiflexible · Dec 10, 2023

Vaughn said:
And like you said, difficult to reproduce the 'error'.

It does suggest an avenue for creativity in exposing the negative on the paper. I've been slavishly attentive to ensuring a tight connection between negative and paper. Perhaps I should experiment.

My other kallitype today is a Christmas present so it can't go up on Instagram -- Mose and Noodle waiting for their treats:

Vaughn · Dec 10, 2023

It will be a loved present!!

MattKing · Dec 10, 2023

Rolleiflexible said:
I goofed a print today but it came out unexpectedly well. I use a vacuum frame under a UV light array. Today, I turned the light and vacuum pump on at the same time, leaving the negative loose on the paper for the first part of the exposure. Surprisingly, the faces in the print turned out sharp, while blurring the bodies a bit. I'm attaching the print here -- I don't think this is a reproducible effect but it was an interesting result this time.

I like the image.
And I guess there is little doubt that the two are related .

CreationBear · Dec 10, 2023

Ha, fortune favors the prepared mind.

Slightly tangental, but close enough for algo’s:

1.) at what paper/image size does a vacuum frame (vs. a bog standard wooden frame) start to give noticeable improvements in image quality? My initial WAG would be in the 11x14 range, though I have hopes 7x17 wouldn’t be pushing things too far.

2.) While it seems most of us are running UV boxes of some sort, are there processes (e.g. salt prints) that benefit from using sunlight?

Vaughn · Dec 10, 2023

I am having good luck with a 12x15 frame for 11x14s...I would like to be able to coat a larger piece of paper, but I have had contact issues with 16x20 frames.

The sun -- while there are specific wavelengths that a process will respond the most strongly to, there are many wavelengths that will still affect the process. The sun gives a much wider range of wavelengths which can help with some processes. I have not had this scientifically confirmed yet, but some wavelengths might be able to penetrate deeper/faster into gelatin (carbon printing) than others, thus affecting the printing speed and look of the resulting image.

I am a little weary of single wavelegth LEDs.

Most alt processes produce a printed-out image during exposure. The formation of the image lags behind a little (not instantaneously formed). The printed-out image acts like a mask...reducing the exposure of the highlights in a very nice smooth manner. This means that very intense short exposures do not create as strong usable printing out image than a longer, exposure with a less intense light source. So with a the same over-all exposure, a print in the open shade could produce nicer looking highlight values than one in the direct sun.

These would be subtle changes.

Rolleiflexible · Dec 10, 2023

CreationBear said:
1.) at what paper/image size does a vacuum frame (vs. a bog standard wooden frame) start to give noticeable improvements in image quality? My initial WAG would be in the 11x14 range, though I have hopes 7x17 wouldn’t be pushing things too far.

Vaughn said:
I am having good luck with a 12x15 frame for 11x14s...I would like to be able to coat a larger piece of paper, but I have had contact issues with 16x20 frames.

I got a vacuum frame because I read that the pressure it creates is much higher than any springback frame, ensuring the best print acuity across the image. I got the "Medium" frame from Dennis Ramos,

Portable Vacuum Frame | Dennis Ramos Fine Art Image | Alternative Printingry

Simplicity. My creative vision through simple and minimal approach in fine art photography and alternative printing.

www.dennis-ramos.com

and I am able to print onto 18x22-inch paper with it. I don't know that a wooden frame with a springback is not up to the task, but it is a lot easier to work with a vacuum frame -- much easier to adjust the registration of image to paper, in my experience. The vacuum frame runs about $200; I would be surprised if you could find a large wooden frame for the same price.

Rolleiflexible · Dec 10, 2023

BTW, I made another goof this morning. I had two beakers full of water. I dissolved citric acid into one. Then I forgot which one. Citric acid is a food additive derived from orange rinds, right? So I tasted the one I thought was water. It was not.

MattKing · Dec 10, 2023

Vaughn said:
I am a little weary of single wavelegth LEDs.

Did you, perchance, mean to post that you were "a little wary single wavelegth LEDs"?
Because I'm not tired of anything in this thread

Rolleiflexible · Dec 10, 2023

MattKing said:
I like the image.
And I guess there is little doubt that the two are related .

No doubt at all.

Vaughn · Dec 10, 2023

MattKing said:
Did you, perchance, mean to post that you were "a little wary single wavelegth LEDs"?
Because I'm not tired of anything in this thread

I didn't like the spelling but was too weary to look it up...

I have used too much pressure with carbon printing with vacuum frames (and even spring-loaded when I tossed in an extra mat board backing). This results are low contrast muddy prints -- I use fairly thick tissues (thick layer of gelatin) and with the heat and high pressure, the gelatin gets deformed and all sorts of weird things happen. Don't think it can happen with other processes. I keep the vacuum to 10 psi or lower.

CreationBear · Dec 10, 2023

Good thing you weren’t using iocane powder, Sanders. Thanks for the link—I admit I was put off by the potential of having to faff around with aerosolized oil from a vacuum pump, but it doesn’t seem to be an insurmountable problem.

Vaughn, thanks for the insights—I didn’t know if dichromate was similarly effected as silver nitrate…I’ll have do some comparisons in the new year.

Vaughn · Dec 10, 2023

CreationBear said:
...

Vaughn, thanks for the insights—I didn’t know if dichromate was similarly effected as silver nitrate…I’ll have do some comparisons in the new year.

If there is an image on the paper when you take it out of the contact frame, that is the printing out image I am talking about. Strong in cyanotypes and platinum printing, and to some minor degree in Carbon printing (but can not be seen unless one uses gelatin without a pigment). But carbon printing is a little self-masking on its own when trying to push UV deep down into the pigmented gelatin.

Vaughn · Dec 10, 2023

As close to a tourist image I have made, I think. Loved the light when I woke up -- my sons and I were camping on the shore just a hundred feet or so away.

Boat, Hualaihué, Chile, 2019
F22 at 1/8th second with a yellow filter, 5x7 FP4+, PyrocatHD
Platinum/palladium print

Rolleiflexible · Dec 19, 2023

So, I have questions:

Do photogravures from an etching press qualify as “hand coated wet prints” for the purposes of this thread?

Do they qualify as an “alt process”?

Are they photographs?

If you could, would you?

If you didn’t, why not?

MurrayMinchin · Dec 19, 2023

Rolleiflexible said:
So, I have questions:

Do photogravures from an etching press qualify as “hand coated wet prints” for the purposes of this thread?

Do they qualify as an “alt process”?

Are they photographs?

If you could, would you?

If you didn’t, why not?

Earlier in this thread at least one person said photogravures are allowed, since the ink is wet, applied & wiped by hand onto the plate, and the paper is wet when it goes through the press.

As to your second to last question...yes.

The last question...soon.

Have pretty much everything but the press (relegated to hand barens for the time being) on hand and the supplier notified me yesterday that my roll of photopolymer film is on it's way

MurrayMinchin · Dec 19, 2023

Are they photographs?

I'd say no, they are photogravures, as in...photo (light/photon derived)...gravure (an image produced from etching a plate through an intaglio process and producing a print from it using printmaking ink(s) onto/into paper).

fgorga · Dec 19, 2023

I don't have answers... just opinions.

Rolleiflexible said:
So, I have questions:

Do photogravures from an etching press qualify as “hand coated wet prints” for the purposes of this thread?

Absolutely!

The mechanism for coating paper is somewhat different that most alt processes but one is still coating paper with ink using a "hand" process... i.e. it is not mass produced.

Rolleiflexible said:
Do they qualify as an “alt process”?

Certainly!

Pretty much anything other than ink jet printing counts as "alt" these days. Personally, I don't consider silver gelatin "alt" but may folks do. In my view, alt processes are those where the practitioner prepares a significant portion of the final product by hand as opposed to using mass produced materials.

Rolleiflexible said:
Are they photographs?

Again, certainly!

Historically, photogravures have been considered photographs... even fine art photographs.

I think it is worth distinguishing between photographs (images made by light impinging on a photosensitive surface; my definition, some might disagree with it) and methods for reproducing photographs.

It is also worth distinguishing between objects crafted to a high standard (fine art?) and more prosaic objects.

Most would (and have) consider images reproduced in books and magazines as photographs. Most also consider images displayed on a screen. None of these are, by most, considered fine objects.

Rolleiflexible said:
If you could, would you?

Probably not.

I have a friend (https://www.vaune.net/) who is an accomplished photogravure-ist. I am sure that she would help me get started down this path if I asked. Thus far, I have not been motivated to ask.

Rolleiflexible said:
If you didn’t, why not?

I guess that I'm too much of a chemist! ;-)

Rolleiflexible · Dec 19, 2023

MurrayMinchin said:
Have pretty much everything but the press (relegated to hand barens for the time being) on hand

I've been wanting to dip my toe into ink for a long time now. Last week I located a used etching press near me, a 24x47-inch geared Polymetaal press from Holland. We agreed to a trade -- some cash, some prints -- and I will pick it up later this week.

Murray, if you were nearby we could join forces. I am starting with the press. Now I need to figure out the process. I have a lot to learn.

MurrayMinchin · Dec 19, 2023

Rolleiflexible said:
I've been wanting to dip my toe into ink for a long time now. Last week I located a used etching press near me, a 24x47-inch geared Polymetaal press from Holland. We agreed to a trade -- some cash, some prints -- and I will pick it up later this week.

Murray, if you were nearby we could join forces. I am starting with the press. Now I need to figure out the process. I have a lot to learn.

Lucky you for finding a press!

Are you suggesting that 49 hours of driving is too much for you to load up your press and bring it here so I can use it once in a while? kitimat to mars hill nc drive

I put out a search locally and there's a scruffy & somewhat abused looking 24" wide geared Ettan press in a middle school storage room that may be for sale, but the person hasn't gotten back to me.

I've paid for and have Doug Forsythe's Build-A-Press plans, so may give his Orangeman design a go: https://www.buildapress.com/Orangeman.html

koraks · Dec 19, 2023

@Rolleiflexible
yes
yes
yes
I did
got out of it because I liked photochemical processes better. Personal choice. I still love photogravures for what they are. Please post them if you have them!

Rolleiflexible · Dec 21, 2023

I don’t know how to work it yet, but I now have a timeless work of Dutch engineering.

koraks · Dec 21, 2023

Ah bronze bearings! Looks a bit like the press I once had - which was of course also Dutch.
You didn't take it apart for transport? I didn't either when I got it, but when I sold it off, I took it apart together with the buyer and the parts turned out to be surprisingly portable. The rollers are kind of heavy, but still doable.

MurrayMinchin · Dec 21, 2023

Rolleiflexible said:
I don’t know how to work it yet, but I now have a timeless work of Dutch engineering.

Congrats.

Living where I do, far from the madding crowds and in close proximity to wilderness has its benefits, but a small & thinly spread population makes such finds almost impossible.

I will now go pout in a corner for a while...

Rolleiflexible · Dec 21, 2023

koraks said:
Ah bronze bearings! Looks a bit like the press I once had - which was of course also Dutch.
You didn't take it apart for transport? I didn't either when I got it, but when I sold it off, I took it apart together with the buyer and the parts turned out to be surprisingly portable. The rollers are kind of heavy, but still doable.

I took off its bed and base (not shown here) but otherwise left the press itself intact. It is elegant in its simplicity. Nothing showy, but beautiful in its functionality. But the bronze bearings are a nice touch.

Showcase for Your HCWP's

Vaughn

Rolleiflexible

Attachments

Vaughn

MattKing

Moderator

CreationBear

Vaughn

Rolleiflexible

Portable Vacuum Frame | Dennis Ramos Fine Art Image | Alternative Printingry

Rolleiflexible

MattKing

Moderator

Rolleiflexible

Vaughn

CreationBear

Vaughn

Vaughn

Attachments

Rolleiflexible

MurrayMinchin

Membership Council

MurrayMinchin

Membership Council

fgorga

Rolleiflexible

MurrayMinchin

Membership Council

koraks

Moderator

Rolleiflexible

Attachments

koraks

Moderator

MurrayMinchin

Membership Council

Rolleiflexible

Showcase for Your HCWP's

Attachments

Moderator

Moderator

Attachments

Membership Council

Membership Council

Membership Council

Moderator

Attachments

Moderator

Membership Council

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency