If Fuji discontinue all E6 we will see New Ektachrome in 120, 4x5, 8x10 ?

[Poisson Du Jour]

They are missing to whole point. They are not seeing to reason for using E6.

"They" are??
E6 films were never, ever restricted to, or solely for projecting. People commonly did use slide film just for projecting, but outside of what was widely assumed and taken as its one and only purpose, so very few people were aware of the many other uses for it, not for that matter did an equal number care.If people wanted prints from slides, it was in the distant past a slow, expensive and grossly unsatisfactory process, especially from kiosks. This problem only turned people off it. So entrenched populist opinion would have use believe that "slides are only for projecting!", but it has never been the case at all — certainly not among professionals in the craft or even advanced amateurs in Clubs and Groups!

What we are doing is just carrying on the way E6 films were used for print production before digital e.g. photogravure, magazine cover and page production, and particularly the way things were done in the Ilfochrome Classic print process. And printing today is far better in quality, methodology and process than it ever was in the past. I am aware of a great many photographers involved at the moment in RA-4 printing from E6 material, some coming from digital backgrounds into a sort of film renaissance.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Hehe, but you need to have them mounted, which not many labs still do.
My local lab that has started to offer it not long ago does E-6 processing for 12/13€ / roll, not too bad, compared to 4€ ( C-41 ) and 8€ ( B&W )
The bad part is the slide mounts, for a 36 exposure roll, the slide mounts cost 11€ !
I may just start to mount them myself, it's not that hard.

Mounting of slides is vanishingly rare here, and even frowned upon. Certainly, professionals do not specify mounting because it complicate and slows down filing and print processes.

What puzzles me is some photographers use slide film, do not own nor intend to own a projector, but insist on slides coming back cut and mounted and even get very aggro when such a service is not offered! Really, if you do not have a projector, nor an intention to get a projector, the slides do not require cutting or mounting, just stripping to lines of 6, put them in a poly sleeve and file them. Why is this so hard to understand? The least people could do is invest in a lightbox to get some enjoyment from the viewing of the finished photograph.

 

[AgX]

E6 films were never, ever restricted to, or solely for projecting... So entrenched populist opinion would have use believe that "slides are only for projecting!", but it has never been the case at all — certainly not among professionals in the craft or even advanced amateurs in Clubs and Groups!

But they were designed for projection and that is the crucial point.

Some other uses need the special characteristics too, others not.
That professionals used them outside their intended use does not make such use technically more sound.

 

[trendland]

Mounting of slides is vanishingly rare here, and even frowned upon. Certainly, professionals do not specify mounting because it complicate and slows down filing and print processes.

What puzzles me is some photographers use slide film, do not own nor intend to own a projector, but insist on slides coming back cut and mounted and even get very aggro when such a service is not offered! Really, if you do not have a projector, nor an intention to get a projector, the slides do not require cutting or mounting, just stripping to lines of 6, put them in a poly sleeve and file them. Why is this so hard to understand? The least people could do is invest in a lightbox to get some enjoyment from the viewing of the finished photograph.

He he he ? What's up Poision Du Jour?
I can't remember that anyone stated here : " E6 is only for projection"
But on the other hand? You are able to mount slides AND then you can project them. The issue is on the opposite side - without E6 no way to project films.
(If we all would agree that digital projection is much more expensive with
less quality - "today" - I have to state)
Because it should be total different with
new generation of 6k beamers (better 8k).
But by the way - a new sportscar AND a
good slide projector with E6 should be also a little more smart in the future.
The issue concerning E6 and projection
is the mass market - we all should remember the 70th.
To me - there may be no way to revival E6 without a focus to revival projection of slides.
Because proffessional photographers with E6 on the light table isn't the mass.
Still in the 70th,80th,90th (there wasn't a way to come to agencies with prints) E6 was a little niche of some thousands -
because agencies only acepted slides - most wanted 120 slides or higher.
And to print in magazines it was the same of cause.
This target group was a little niche against millions of amateuric E6 for projection.
Today there is a new group wich is lucky to use it and the reason is scanning.

But friends this isn't enough to motivate any manufacturer to produce E6 films to the next years. (without a group of people who remember slide projection is phantastic) I guess the statement of sirius glass was meant in this direction
[...they are missing the whole point...]

Mounting slides isn't a real problem - one may handle it - by the time I also have most new E6 archived in stripes.
200 films - I have to mount it in the future........I hope so

with regards

 

[Minoltafan2904]

Mounting of slides is vanishingly rare here, and even frowned upon. Certainly, professionals do not specify mounting because it complicate and slows down filing and print processes.

What puzzles me is some photographers use slide film, do not own nor intend to own a projector, but insist on slides coming back cut and mounted and even get very aggro when such a service is not offered! Really, if you do not have a projector, nor an intention to get a projector, the slides do not require cutting or mounting, just stripping to lines of 6, put them in a poly sleeve and file them. Why is this so hard to understand? The least people could do is invest in a lightbox to get some enjoyment from the viewing of the finished photograph.

I don't have a projector but i enjoy viewing slides on my PanaVue viewer and on the little lightbox i have, first on my list is a proper loupe for slide viweing with 8x or 10x magnification.

 

[NJH]

Does any lab mount 120 film? I don't know of any and I have to say cutting, cleaning and mounting into glass mounts is by far the worst part of the whole process, getting all 6 surfaces spotlessly clean is a real PITA.

 

[AgX]

I do not think there is so in Germany (if it ever was), though there are still some labs that mount 35mm slides.

 

[Sirius Glass]

"They" are??
E6 films were never, ever restricted to, or solely for projecting. People commonly did use slide film just for projecting, but outside of what was widely assumed and taken as its one and only purpose, so very few people were aware of the many other uses for it, not for that matter did an equal number care.If people wanted prints from slides, it was in the distant past a slow, expensive and grossly unsatisfactory process, especially from kiosks. This problem only turned people off it. So entrenched populist opinion would have use believe that "slides are only for projecting!", but it has never been the case at all — certainly not among professionals in the craft or even advanced amateurs in Clubs and Groups!

What we are doing is just carrying on the way E6 films were used for print production before digital e.g. photogravure, magazine cover and page production, and particularly the way things were done in the Ilfochrome Classic print process. And printing today is far better in quality, methodology and process than it ever was in the past. I am aware of a great many photographers involved at the moment in RA-4 printing from E6 material, some coming from digital backgrounds into a sort of film renaissance.

But they were designed for projection and that is the crucial point.

Some other uses need the special characteristics too, others not.
That professionals used them outside their intended use does not make such use technically more sound.

As AgX points out, they were designed primary for slide projection, which is exactly the point. They can also be used other ways. So they miss the point when they have never used them as intended, thus missing the best of the E6 process.

 

[trendland]

Does any lab mount 120 film? I don't know of any and I have to say cutting, cleaning and mounting into glass mounts is by far the worst part of the whole process, getting all 6 surfaces spotlessly clean is a real PITA.

Just try glassless mounts. Then you can cancel 4 surfaces. With glass iist only a real way via antinewton.

You should be first clear a fine robbery
after this look for a service on antinewton mounting.
Sure you will find some guys who will helping you with mounting 120.
But then you will need the money from the robbery.
I've bougth just one package 120 antinewton ( 6 x7 Gepe.) Therefore no robbery was a need. (nice price)
But today it is priced around $ 75,- (now discontinued)
AND THEN YOU HAVE JUST 10 MOUNTS.
AT $ 7,50 a single slide mount you indeed need a plan for a nice robbery.
Best robbery isn't the first national - there you might end in a lethal shooting.
BETTER is to robe directly GEPE in Sweden but beware of - they are real gangster.
....

with regards

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

I can't remember that anyone stated here : " E6 is only for projection"

The reason so few people actually use E6 films is because of what I mentioned -- an entrenched belief that all you do with them is make slides for projection. That would have been the popular thing to do "way back when". They don't know, or don't want to hear about, how beautiful prints are created from slides. Actually, I have seen it written here by peopel that E6 is only for projection. When I mentioned the print production aspect of this to a long-time photographer yesterday, he looked blankly at me: "you can print from slides??"

So you may not remember anybody saying E6 is only for projection (I do!), but that is what the majority want to believe. The minority on the other hand love swinging from the monkey bars and having a bloody good time with Fuji-san!

 

[Sirius Glass]

The reason so few people actually use E6 films is because of what I mentiobned -- an entrenched belief that all you do with them is make slides for projection. They don't know, or don't want to hear about, how beautiful prints are created from slides. When I mentioned this to a long-time photograrpher yesterday, he looked blankly at me: "you can print from slides??" So you may not remember anybody saying E6 is only for projection, but that is what the majority want to believe. The minority on the other hand love swinging from the monkey bars and having a bloody good time with Fuji-san.

When I worked in camera stores I would tell people other ways they could use slides. For decades after I would mention it to other photographers. Obviously I either did not tell enough people or they did not listen.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

When I worked in camera stores I would tell people other ways they could use slides. For decades after I would mention it to other photographers. Obviously I either did not tell enough people or they did not listen.

I don't deny you would have done what any great salesman would have done. They probably thought the other things to do with slides were way too much of a chore when it (printing, particularly) could be done so much faster and easier with negative film (as is still the very widely held belief, even here on APUG/Photrio!).

 

[Sirius Glass]

I don't deny you would have done what any great salesman would have done. They probably thought the other things to do with slides were too much of a chore when it could be done so much faster with negative film (as is still the very widely held belief!

yes

 

[trendland]

The reason so few people actually use E6 films is because of what I mentioned -- an entrenched belief that all you do with them is make slides for projection. That would have been the popular thing to do "way back when". They don't know, or don't want to hear about, how beautiful prints are created from slides. Actually, I have seen it written here by peopel that E6 is only for projection. When I mentioned the print production aspect of this to a long-time photographer yesterday, he looked blankly at me: "you can print from slides??"

So you may not remember anybody saying E6 is only for projection (I do!), but that is what the majority want to believe. The minority on the other hand love swinging from the monkey bars and having a bloody good time with Fuji-san!

Well that make it more clear.By the time I wouldn,t use a 4 x 5 inch projector - better buy a new car. But 4 x 5 inch in E6 is realy funny. Of cause then it is just to print from it. I also have some 5 x 7 Kodak E6.
Nowbody would have the idea to project from such slides ...better buy a brand new sportscar and let the local sheriff behind you (with 155 mph).

with regards

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

But 4 x 5 inch in E6 is realy funny. Of cause then it is just to print from it.

Yes. Unless you can prove there is a 4x5 projector? Well presently we can drop a 4x5 sheet onto an iPad AIR tablet screen which has the "Lightbox" app installed (this works a treat for on-the-fly viewing!) and there you have it: instant life and glamour for the much-maligned 4x5... Funnily, people not involved in photography have no idea what they are looking at when I demonstrate this (I have only a few surviving sheets of 4x5 from my 3 year dabble in that format in the mid-1990s).

Now, in the early 1990s 4x5 transparency film was used to produce giant murals that decorated the foyer walls of the Victoria-Tasmania Spirit of Tasmania overnight ferry. These were rainforest shots, made on a Linhof Master Technika by a specialist landscape photographer, and printed to LED backlit display panels. For years and years travellers were gobsmacked and enthralled at the spectacle, almost 30 metres long. About 5 years ago both ferries were extensively overhauled and modernised and the fate of the rainforest murals is not known.

I have never seen a 4x5 projector, and only vaguely remember one for 6x6!

 

[AgX]

There were and there still are 4x5 and even larger projectors.

 

[DREW WILEY]

If Cibachrome were still around, I'd instantly go back to large format E6 chromes. As it is, I learned how to make excellent internegs from my stash of old chromes and print them on RA4 paper; but now just shoot color neg film. Digital just doesn't cut it. I know some of the best digital printers alive - industry consultants, and they did better work back in their darkroom days, prior to inkjet. But a Bozo will always be a Bozo, regardless of whether you put him in front of an enlarger or a computer screen. Quality takes dedication, either way.

 

[bvy]

Maybe I'll give RA4 reversal another go.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

If Cibachrome were still around, I'd instantly go back to large format E6 chromes.

You wish. But the rest for use would not go back at all.

Better methods exist and photographers work those methods. Even the labs that exist who once devoted their production to Ciba would never return to it.

As for quality, and your perceived shortcomings and failings in it with alternative methods, you are attempting to paint the entire scene with a muddled brush. We apply the same very high standards in hybrid production as we did for the imperfect, inflexible Ciba (yes, masking, colour grading too), but thankfully for all with none of the mucking around with faulty or no-show materials from the manufacturer.

Very few of us don't have access to industry figureheads in print production. It is not a rarity.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Maybe I'll give RA4 reversal another go.

I hope you do.

 

[DREW WILEY]

The proof is in the pudding. Maybe some of you think a Whopper burger is better than a steak just because it's faster to serve. Probably you've just never tasted a steak...

 

[trendland]

Yes. Unless you can prove there is a 4x5 projector? Well presently we can drop a 4x5 sheet onto an iPad AIR tablet screen which has the "Lightbox" app installed (this works a treat for on-the-fly viewing!) and there you have it: instant life and glamour for the much-maligned 4x5... Funnily, people not involved in photography have no idea what they are looking at when I demonstrate this (I have only a few surviving sheets of 4x5 from my 3 year dabble in that format in the mid-1990s).

Now, in the early 1990s 4x5 transparency film was used to produce giant murals that decorated the foyer walls of the Victoria-Tasmania Spirit of Tasmania overnight ferry. These were rainforest shots, made on a Linhof Master Technika by a specialist landscape photographer, and printed to LED backlit display panels. For years and years travellers were gobsmacked and enthralled at the spectacle, almost 30 metres long. About 5 years ago both ferries were extensively overhauled and modernised and the fate of the rainforest murals is not known.

I have never seen a 4x5 projector, and only vaguely remember one for 6x6!

Oh - I can imagine the effect from a 4 x 5 inch projection.
Just remember the space of the negative/slide = ~ > 12 x 35mm.

with regards

 

[trendland]

There were and there still are 4x5 and even larger projectors.

Yes - INDEED - but there might be no
"magazine based system"
Otherwise I would buy imideately a box of 4 x 5 inch mounts - just to have a look
at it.....

with regards

PS : The mounting of 4 x 5 slides should be a fast job. Because one have much less ammounds of it in comparison with 35mm wich have a need to be mounted

 

[AgX]

Yes - INDEED - but there might be no
"magazine based system"

There are automatic slide magazines for even much bigger slides, up to 10x10".

 

[trendland]

Wow - I did not know jet. .
But my imagination of it is that I might can't afford even the mounts........
Perhaps it is the best so.
With 6 x 7 I reached my personaly border in projectors.

with regards