Diffusion Transfer Printing ("Polaroid" peel-apart) recipes

It really had me going there, until it got to the comments about commercial receiver sheets. I'll take three boxes of the 8x10 size, please

In general the issue I have run into with asking AI systems for help with, for example, chemical syntheses, is that to the unknowledgeable enquirer (which was me in that case), the confident voicing of the answer completely obscures the total garbage that it contains. Do try the suggestions though, and let us know which ones work for you. Experimentation is the way forward. But I am stuck. I want to comment that, from the considerable experimentation I have done (I didn't magic the reagents, concentrations and timings out of thin air) I don't recognize any of its suggestions as having the effects that it says they will. But also I don't want to poo-poo genuinine enquiry.

I've got some information about image fading now, based on the images I produced earlier this year, so I will update at a convenient moment.

That's wonderful Alec, I'm sure we all look forward to your new information on fading.
I, myself am getting fairly good and consistent image quality.
All I had to do was adjust for my negative type.
Occasionally, the images get a bit brown/yellow and I think this has to do with not consistent amount of NaBH4.
Too much and too little lead to the same issue.
I'm now moving forward with getting my mammoth camera setup ready.
Thanks so much again Alec. You're really helping my life come together!

Hi Alec (+ everyone else),

Firstly, sorry that I got the material from you and went MIA, life happens. I really appreciate you doing that.

I finally got around to getting some stuff on my own, and I've had some decent success. Right now, I'm just focusing on making a paste that can be used to resurrect dried B&W Polaroid material, several friends and I have a LOT of it so there's some interest there. I got a bunch of chemicals, from ArtCraft (who was kind enough to order from TCI on my behalf), Amazon, and a local distributor:



Not pictured: Metol, Lithium Hydroxide, Zinc Acetate, Stannous Chloride, Triethanolamine, Sodium Sulfite, et al. I'm using hydroxyethyl cellulose instead of sodium CMC. I don't know how much of a difference that makes.

I've been thru five different "recipes" so far. I've had success resurrecting dried Type 55, which gives good neutral tonality and the negative also comes out good:





The previous photos (and the following one) were developed with tert-butylhydroquinone as the developer + Na₂S₂O₃ as the silver solvent.

I've also been testing it out with Polaroid Type 804 (Polapan 100) 8x10. Unlike T55, no matter which developer combinations I've tried, it always comes out with a heavy sepia tone. I will continue to experiment..



The next few images were made with the 5th iteration of developer, I lowered the TBHQ and added a bit of Metol.

(Type 55)


(Type 804)


If anyone is interested in the full "formula" for the developers I've used, let me know.

This is a lot more fun than I thought it'd be. I'm going to continue to experiment and eventually work toward not having to rely on legacy Polaroid material.

Thanks for all the work you've done with this, @alecrmyers.

analogwisdom said:

The previous photos (and the following one) were developed with tert-butylhydroquinone as the developer + Na₂S₂O₃ as the silver solvent.

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Thank you for sharing your results which are quite interesting. Can you share details of tert-butylhydroquinone developer?

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:

Thank you for sharing your results which are quite interesting. Can you share details of tert-butylhydroquinone developer?

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Sure! This is the recipe for my "Developer #5" previously mentioned:

30g base (2.5% HEC + 10% w/w NaOH)
600mg Sodium Sulfite
500mg Sodium Thiosulfate
500mg tertiary butylhydroquinone
100mg Metol
250mg Lithium Hydroxide

This was just to fill a 30mL syringe, but you can scale it up as needed. Like Alec, I made a big batch of base beforehand.

I will be honest, I know very little about chemistry or how this insanely complicated process works. I am mostly copying Alec's work, along with information from various Polaroid patents. I am learning as I go.

Thanks @analogwisdom.

Just tested a new developer (with Type 803 again). Very, very excited on the outcome. Close to perfect tonality. The artifacts are from me being impatient and not waiting for air bubbles to float out, and not cleaning the rollers on the 8x10 processor beforehand.

The only difference is that I added 30mg of cysteine to Developer #5. Crazy how such a small thing can make such a big difference!

Great result on type 55!

analogwisdom said:

Great result on type 55!

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+1

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:

+1

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Thank you!


I've tried a few formulae that are thiosulfate free, using Uracil as the silver solvent, a la Alec's previously detailed formula. I have not been very successful with these so far, I'm sure I'm messing something up along the way. Interestingly enough, this happened on a Type 55 negative:


Solarization resulting in a negative that's actually a positive. Extreme blue staining, too. Still pretty neat!

I'm working on ordering some chemicals and the tools to start coating my own receiver sheets. I've got plenty of reading to do first, though.

analogwisdom said:

Solarization resulting in a negative that's actually a positive. Extreme blue staining, too. Still pretty neat!

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Though unintended, the result is indeed very cool!

@analogwisdom: I'm really impressed with resurrecting the type 55.

Also with the TBHQ developer. Doubly so because I've never got it to work - so I'm going to try your recipe for sure.

What I discovered over the summer is that the silica papers I have been working with have light fading issues, unfortunately. Prints stuck to the wall that were initially very good with dark blacks have faded to a light brown over the course of several months. Prints in my lab book are still dark though.

I am now back on the case with palladium/cellulose acetate papers, the analogue of Polaroid coaterless products. I've got a better solvent mixture for spreading the CA which gives a much more even coating.

I've also been emailing with a couple of retired Polaroid engineers who worked on the peel-apart products. Which has been very helpful. I'm going to do some work on finding which accessible toners work to move the hues from brown to black, which is very relevant to @analogwisdom comments about the sepia tone with Polapan 100.

@analogwisdom try replacing the AEEA with triethanolamine, see if that does anything useful?

btw TBHQ is available on Aliexpress quite cheap. You will also see it on the ingredients list of cooking oil. New Polaroid use it in their 'reclaimed blue" product which is the same blue tone as you get in your type 55 I think:https://www.polaroid.com/en_ca/blog/journal/the-reclaimed-blue-story

I spent October and November shooting as many people as I could find.
Here are some of the shots I got over the course of two months.
What did I do to achieve better results? The developer was modified a bit to account for using black and white enlargement paper rather than film.

Still not 100% satisfied with consistency in tones.
And now I'm in shock that Alec has confirmed the silica based prints do fade.
Has anyone tried any other methods so far that produce prints that don't fade?
Alec, will you be sharing your research on new types of print chemistry?
Thanks.

That's a very cool project! What size are the prints?

Land was also in shock when he found out his early prints faded; Polaroid had to invent and rush out the print coater in double-quick time.

Thanks so much Alecrmyers.
4x5" and 8x10" although soon 20x24" and later 24x32" as, I just received my chrome dipped rollers today that will get me better processing than with the regular motorized laminator rollers as those rollers are spongey.
Is there any reason to believe Recipe 80 fades less?

"
Receiver paper (recipe 80)

Phase A
15g 0.5% PVP (optional, otherwise 15g water)
1ml 1% sodium sulfide
2 drops 10% PS20

Phase B
15g 0.5% PVP (optional, otherwise 15g water)
1ml 25% zinc nitrate
2 drops 10% PS20

Phase C
30g 6% gelatin solution
1ml glyoxal

Dump phase A into phase B and mix briefly. Add to phase C.
Plate on receiver paper with a 100 micron wire bar coater (aliexpress.com) about 1ml per sheet. Dry."

?

Qebs said:

Thanks so much Alecrmyers.
4x5" and 8x10" although soon 20x24" and later 24x32" as, I just received my chrome dipped rollers today that will get me better processing than with the regular motorized laminator rollers as those rollers are spongey.
Is there any reason to believe Recipe 80 fades less?

"
Receiver paper (recipe 80)

Phase A
15g 0.5% PVP (optional, otherwise 15g water)
1ml 1% sodium sulfide
2 drops 10% PS20

Phase B
15g 0.5% PVP (optional, otherwise 15g water)
1ml 25% zinc nitrate
2 drops 10% PS20

Phase C
30g 6% gelatin solution
1ml glyoxal

Dump phase A into phase B and mix briefly. Add to phase C.
Plate on receiver paper with a 100 micron wire bar coater (aliexpress.com) about 1ml per sheet. Dry."

?

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Is there any reason to not believe recipe 80 works with the deha/aeea developer?

Qebs said:

Is there any reason to not believe recipe 80 works with the deha/aeea developer?

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Not sure - try it!

Qebs said:

Here are some of the shots I got over the course of two months.

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Nice results!

Qebs said:

silica based prints do fade.

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You might want to do an accelerated aging test. Expose a non-critical print to sunlight for a few days and see what happens.

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:

Nice results!



You might want to do an accelerated aging test. Expose a non-critical print to sunlight for a few days and see what happens.

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It's December, and we're in Toronto... sunlight!??

Thanks for all the advice.
Alec, if you talk to the polaroid employees, could you ask about the coater. I read there are chemicals that are in small quantities that are not listed in the patent information. Are they crucial for the coating to work properly?

Qebs said:

Thanks for all the advice.
Alec, if you talk to the polaroid employees, could you ask about the coater. I read there are chemicals that are in small quantities that are not listed in the patent information. Are they crucial for the coating to work properly?

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Can you show a picture of the new rollers?? Thanx!!

What a fantastic thread! Respect!

Peter Schrager said:

Can you show a picture of the new rollers?? Thanx!!

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Hello Peter, so what I have done is sourced a manufacturer of rubber rollers.
Any machine shop with the right tools can do this also.
The rollers were 4 inch in diameter from a laminating machine that has a motor to turn one of the rollers.
Instead of rubber, I had the cylindrical part made from tool steel and then coated in Chrome. The chrome is to resist corrosive effects from some of the chemicals used in Alec's formulas. I believe I also read that the 4x5" Polaroid film processors did the same. But if you have a bit more money to use, 316 stainless steel then the chrome is the best bet.

I'm installing on Monday, and I'll get you some photos then
Hope this helped.
Be well

@Qebs with your chrome rollers are you planning to use a contact process or use rails To give a thicker developer layer?