In step #3 in your post #5, what happens if you use citric acid bath in place of tap water?
the white border is showing marked improvement,
In Jim Patterson's Cuprotype process, after UV exposure, the print is developed in 1% Ammonium Thiocyanate + 0.5 % Citric Acid solution and this is followed by a long wash in Citric Acid solution. If one were to take Citric Acid from these steps, I wonder if that process would also give results similar to yours.
You mean "take out," right? No idea. I don't have ammonium thio nor inclination to try out that process at this time and open yet another Pandora's box...
Something's happening to something(2) after K ferri toning that makes it reactive to citric acid. That something(2) or its precursor seems to be washed out by citric acid or other chelators in the 1st wash step.
No worries.I was only curious to know if what you observed is something unique to Thiosulphate based process or due to divergence in the developing step.
Interesting. The whitening of borders could possibly mean something is being subtracted than being added. I don't know.
Nice result Niranjan! Good work.
The brush trick for toning is interesting. Thanks for sharing.
I am going to do a show-and-tell to a local alternative process group in coming weeks.
You need to give the process a name.
There are so many versions now. Jim Patterson had the original cuprotype that used ammonium thiocyanate. Then this one that uses sodium thiosulfate aka "hypo." Just recently, Jim has developed one containing sodium bromide (one-pot sensitizer like this one.)
Looks like a lot of activity has happened around cuprotype variants on the altphotolist in the recent past! Nice!
The names serve the purpose but alt processes needs a Jay DeFehr to come up with more interesting names.
Sound all good. Nice to see so much progress. The Brom-cuprotype has even some potential for in-camera use I think. Although i have not been able to get some good result after washing and drying.cyano-cuprotype, hypo-cuprotype and bromo-cuprotype.
Sound all good. Nice to see so much progress. The Brom-cuprotype has even some potential for in-camera use I think. Although i have not been able to get some good result after washing and drying.
Thanks!
This is great stuff Niranjan!
We still don't really know what is going on w/ citric or sulfonic acid after "toning" with Pot-Ferri, right?
Since the highlights are changing, there is something in those highlights left to be changed ( the bane of toned cyanotypes... the highlights are never just paper. )
Background:
I thought it would be a good idea to open a new thread continuing the work started in an another thread started by @Jan de Jong on possibility of a VDB-like process using residual silver content in a depleted fixer:
Cyano-vanDyke ... finding a use for used B/W fixer - did i find a new process? or is this an existing process variation?
Trying to find a new process using used hypo-fixer. This should contain silver and I have been working many experiments to see if i can release that again for some type of VanDyke print. Adding it direct will result in fainter blue. -> let me know if I have found a new process or if this is...www.photrio.com
There it was demonstrated that a photogram can be made with a photosensitizer consisting of used film fixer, CuSO4 and ferric ammonium citrate (FAC). Questions regarding the role of CuSO4, which is obviously not a part of a typical VDB recipe, in the image formation led to the possibility that the active ingredient in the observed photo activity may also be the thiosulfate ions and not necessarily only the silver ones. Based on that, I speculated what would happen if a photosensitizer was made simply with pure sodium thiosulfate in lieu of the spent fixer. The image obtained in that case would be more akin to a cuprotype dating back to 1850’s and 1860’s (works of Burnett and Obernetter) with the most recent update by Jim Patterson:
CUPROTYPE
CUPROTYPE: a photographic print of reddish brown Copper II Ferrocyanide (Hatchett’s Brown) pigment on paper.www.darkroomdoc.com
Upon quick examination, I found that an image did form with such a photosensitizer on exposure to UV. This was followed up with some preliminary work by me presented on that thread to look at the viability of this process. Since the scope of this work is no longer use of spent fixer and the outcome no longer a variant of VDB-like process as originally premised, I felt a separate thread will be more appropriate - where a discussion with digital negatives can also be possible.
Continuing that work, based on a starter set of sensitizer formulation and process conditions, I was able to print an actual image of what I am terming as the New Cuprotype, to differentiate it from Patterson's version. The two are similar in that they both use FAC and CuSO4 in the photosensitizer. In the Patterson process, first a Cu(i) image is formed from Cu(ii) reduced by Fe(ii), itself the result of UV photoreduction of Fe(iii), which is then converted to a grey Cu(i) thiocyanate image by developing in ammonium thiocyanate. Finally, a copper(ii) ferrocynide, also known as Hatchett’s brown, image is formed by treatment with potassium ferricyanide.
In the current process the “developer” in a sense is the sodium thiosulfate, incorporated in the photosensitizer - so no separate intermediate image is required. A strong print-out of yellowish-brown image is obtained upon exposure. The exact nature of the pigment responsible for the image at this stage is not being proposed yet, but it’s safe to say it is some form of complex between Cu(i) and sodium thiosulfate. The development is simply washing out of the un-reacted chemicals in the paper in a similar fashion as cyanotype. Unlike cyanotype though, there does not seem to be any intensification of the image from what is already printed out during exposure. Copper ferrocyanide image is then obtained by treatment with potassium ferricyanide as usual.
In short, we may have stumbled upon a new cuprotype variant - thanks to @Jan de Jong' s creative experimenting.
The print in the next post.
:Niranjan.
Sorry this is random because I’m new so I can’t post, do you have any idea if one could use cyanotype over oil ground?
Niranjan,
Thanks for the update.
I am planning another interval of cuprotype printing later this week mainly to see if I can optimize things for printing on cloth.
I'll incorporate both of your recent changes into my practice and report back here when I can.
Regards,
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