110/16mm Camera Image Quality

Bronson Dugnutt · Jun 7, 2021

Shame the reels failed. I process all my 16mm (and 35mm films w/ remjet) in the much maligned (rightly so imho) yankee clipper. I've had issues with the remjet impacting the emulsion when opening the reel but no issues with light-tightness or film coming off the reel. Need to do more experimentation with an initial remjet wash or perhaps opening the reel under water to prevent the remjet emulsion slapping.

Negative or reversal, I typically open the tank and process under room light after the stop bath. Tri-X in general is amenable to reversal processing, even if not explicitly a reversal stock. I've not attempted any 16mm reversal processes yet but routinely reverse 35mm Tri-X 400 @ 100 with homebrew D-19 as first and second developers. The results are good enough with stock D-19 without introducing thiocyanate or thiosulfate into the first dev (e.g. D-67) to justify the speed loss.

Edit: In the meantime, here's a few more shots from the Double-X in Tmax dev cassette from the other day

Edit 2: If you do attempt reversal, don't forget the bleach step. It's conspicuously missing from the routine you posted.

Huss · Jun 7, 2021

Bronson Dugnutt said:
Shame the reels failed. I process all my 16mm (and 35mm films w/ remjet) in the much maligned (rightly so imho) yankee clipper. I've had issues with the remjet impacting the emulsion when opening the reel but no issues with light-tightness or film coming off the reel. Need to do more experimentation with an initial remjet wash or perhaps opening the reel under water to prevent the remjet emulsion slapping.

Negative or reversal, I typically open the tank and process under room light after the stop bath. Tri-X in general is amenable to reversal processing, even if not explicitly a reversal stock. I've not attempted any 16mm reversal processes yet but routinely reverse 35mm Tri-X 400 @ 100 with homebrew D-19 as first and second developers. The results are good enough with stock D-19 without introducing thiocyanate or thiosulfate into the first dev (e.g. D-67) to justify the speed loss.

Edit: In the meantime, here's a few more shots from the Double-X in Tmax dev cassette from the other day

View attachment 276675 View attachment 276676 View attachment 276677

Edit 2: If you do attempt reversal, don't forget the bleach step. It's conspicuously missing from the routine you posted.

Those Double X results look good!

Bronson Dugnutt · Jun 7, 2021

Acutance is really the name of the game for a format this small. Vision3 50D is supremely fine-grained and 'sharp' in the traditional sense which disproportionally benefits larger formats. The extra crunch from the Tmax dev helps with perceived sharpness of a 12x17mm negative.

I've got some 16mm ektachrome on order and am eager to see how it compares to the vision3 stock. And also to hone my E6 formulas before blowing more E100 in 120 and 4x5

Edit: More on accutance (sic) : https://www.imatest.com/docs/sqf/

Cholentpot · Jun 7, 2021

Huss said:
Que?

The Auto 110 only selects film speed at 100 or 400 ISO.

I've read 80 and 320 is how the Auto 110 rates the film. Then again, I might have read wrong.

Bronson Dugnutt said:
Shame the reels failed. I process all my 16mm (and 35mm films w/ remjet) in the much maligned (rightly so imho) yankee clipper. I've had issues with the remjet impacting the emulsion when opening the reel but no issues with light-tightness or film coming off the reel. Need to do more experimentation with an initial remjet wash or perhaps opening the reel under water to prevent the remjet emulsion slapping.

Negative or reversal, I typically open the tank and process under room light after the stop bath. Tri-X in general is amenable to reversal processing, even if not explicitly a reversal stock. I've not attempted any 16mm reversal processes yet but routinely reverse 35mm Tri-X 400 @ 100 with homebrew D-19 as first and second developers. The results are good enough with stock D-19 without introducing thiocyanate or thiosulfate into the first dev (e.g. D-67) to justify the speed loss.

Edit: In the meantime, here's a few more shots from the Double-X in Tmax dev cassette from the other day

View attachment 276675 View attachment 276676 View attachment 276677

Edit 2: If you do attempt reversal, don't forget the bleach step. It's conspicuously missing from the routine you posted.

Yep, the 'ol yankee clipper failed on me. Both of them. I have three of them and they're all prone to having the film come off the reels.

I was developing Tri-X Reversal. No Remjet on my version. Single perf.

You open the tank before the fix? I've heard of this before...I'm too scared to try it though.

Donald Qualls · Jun 7, 2021

Cholentpot said:
Is it possible to develop this stuff as reversal at home using regular developer? As in Dev, Stop, Expose to light, Dev again and then Fix? I might try it, got nothing to lose.

Cine Tri-X is sold as a reversal film, but you have to use a B&W reversal process: First dev, stop, wash, bleach (with a silver dissolving bleach, not C-41 or E-6 rehalogenating bleach, generally), wash, reverse (either chemically or with light), second dev, stop, fix, wash,

You'll gain speed with that (at least when I've done it, 2/3 to 1 stop); the ISO 200 rating is probably that for the reversal process.

Cholentpot · Jun 7, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Cine Tri-X is sold as a reversal film, but you have to use a B&W reversal process: First dev, stop, wash, bleach (with a silver dissolving bleach, not C-41 or E-6 rehalogenating bleach, generally), wash, reverse (either chemically or with light), second dev, stop, fix, wash,

You'll gain speed with that (at least when I've done it, 2/3 to 1 stop); the ISO 200 rating is probably that for the reversal process.

I guess I'm going to stick with good old negatives then. And I won't expect much out of the Auto 110. Looks like I'm going to be pushing it +2. Not going to go well with 16mm. Time for Rodinal!

Donald Qualls · Jun 7, 2021

You could load it in a 100 speed cartridge -- Rodinal would be better with a 1/3 stop pull than a 1 2/3 stop push anyway.

Of course, in an A110 you could also use a slitter to cut down 35mm Tri-X and get a true 400 speed.

Cholentpot · Jun 7, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
You could load it in a 100 speed cartridge -- Rodinal would be better with a 1/3 stop pull than a 1 2/3 stop push anyway.

Of course, in an A110 you could also use a slitter to cut down 35mm Tri-X and get a true 400 speed.

I can and will load into a 100 speed cart next time. I already started roll in 400 so I'll just see where it goes. Rodinal stand is my go-to when I mess something up. 1:100 for an hour and something should show up on the negatives.

I've run slit down film through the Auto 110 no problem. My issue is, right now I only have two empty 110 carts. Until I get more it's where I'm at. I wish someone would print a reloadable 110 cart. It would make things easier.

Donald Qualls · Jun 7, 2021

I think I recall the limitation on 3D printing is the gear -- a printed gear isn't likely to stand up to multiple reloads.

Huss · Jun 7, 2021

Cholentpot said:
I've read 80 and 320 is how the Auto 110 rates the film. Then again, I might have read wrong.

You open the tank before the fix? I've heard of this before...I'm too scared to try it though.

1. Reading the owner's manual, it is 100/400.

2. Crazy thing - I just developed a roll of Arista 120 200 in DF96 Monobath. The correct procedure is to pour out the DF96 once the dev time is done. Ya know, with the tank still closed..
But I was tired and for some reason opened the tank, to gaze upon the film. It was open for about one second before I realized what I did, and put the lid back on.
After washing it, the film was completely fine. I then saw this on the DF96 website:

Archival fixing occurs in 3-6 minutes with fresh Df96. Feel free to extend processing times to ensure full clearing of film, as it will not affect development. Df96 uses one of the most effective archival fixing agents and should produce fully archival negatives when processing instructions are followed.

So basically the film was already fixed and no reason for me to panic! But there was a serious oh cr@p moment!

Cholentpot · Jun 7, 2021

Huss said:
1. Reading the owner's manual, it is 100/400.

2. Crazy thing - I just developed a roll of Arista 120 200 in DF96 Monobath. The correct procedure is to pour out the DF96 once the dev time is done. Ya know, with the tank still closed..
But I was tired and for some reason opened the tank, to gaze upon the film. It was open for about one second before I realized what I did, and put the lid back on.
After washing it, the film was completely fine. I then saw this on the DF96 website:

Archival fixing occurs in 3-6 minutes with fresh Df96. Feel free to extend processing times to ensure full clearing of film, as it will not affect development. Df96 uses one of the most effective archival fixing agents and should produce fully archival negatives when processing instructions are followed.

So basically the film was already fixed and no reason for me to panic! But there was a serious oh cr@p moment!

Looked it up, it's wikipedia that makes the 80-320 claim but of course, nothing to back it up. I'm going to assume that I'm pushing the film +1 and develop with that in mind.

Bronson Dugnutt · Jun 7, 2021

When cross-processing goes wrong... I went looking for a sasquatch but only found a UAP. Bonus newton rings from the anti-gravity drive.

Minolta MG-S @ 25cm; Vision3 50D @ 50; D-96 1st dev; Stale E-6 2nd dev. Needs more exposure and/or a stronger 1st dev among other things.

Edit: Versus a digital control

Huss · Jun 7, 2021

Cholentpot said:
I can and will load into a 100 speed cart next time. I already started roll in 400 so I'll just see where it goes. Rodinal stand is my go-to when I mess something up. 1:100 for an hour and something should show up on the negatives.

I've run slit down film through the Auto 110 no problem. My issue is, right now I only have two empty 110 carts. Until I get more it's where I'm at. I wish someone would print a reloadable 110 cart. It would make things easier.

Perhaps a simple question but... how do you know if a 110 cartridge is reloadable?
I have quite a few Kodak cartridges (unused) that came with the Fling single use cameras.

Huss · Jun 7, 2021

Digression... my just acquired MADE IN SINGAPORE A110 was working perfectly until this morning. I was just 'fondling' it when the focus slider became stiffer and stiffer to use. Then it completely locked up.
I looked up online to see if there were any clues how to repair this, came across one actually very impressive site with beautiful large photos detailing how to strip it down. But thought the better of it because it required extensive disassembly to get there.
Figuring the A110 only cost me $24 (ebay ad - "don't know if it works but it clicks"), I whipped out my magic can of Electronic Contact Cleaner and just gave a good quick spray into the slider mechanism. (This stuff evaporates very quickly).
Done deal, it instantly freed up and became silky smooth to operate. I figure age/gunge/junk had just built up in there and this just dissolved and blew it out.
This stuff fixed the sticking mirror on my Pentax Auto110, and now the focus slider on my A110! Is there anything it cannot do?

Cholentpot · Jun 8, 2021

Huss said:
Perhaps a simple question but... how do you know if a 110 cartridge is reloadable?
I have quite a few Kodak cartridges (unused) that came with the Fling single use cameras.

None of them are. I take them apart carefully and reload them.

ciniframe · Jun 8, 2021

Just finished a homebuilt rig to photograph my negs but the next two weeks very busy and probably won’t get around to processing until after the 20th. This has been a fantastic thread and Huss has certainly provided samples that answer the OP’s original question about subminiature camera quality.

Patrick Robert James · Jun 8, 2021

Huss said:
Digression... my just acquired MADE IN SINGAPORE A110 was working perfectly until this morning. I was just 'fondling' it when the focus slider became stiffer and stiffer to use. Then it completely locked up.
I looked up online to see if there were any clues how to repair this, came across one actually very impressive site with beautiful large photos detailing how to strip it down. But thought the better of it because it required extensive disassembly to get there.
Figuring the A110 only cost me $24 (ebay ad - "don't know if it works but it clicks"), I whipped out my magic can of Electronic Contact Cleaner and just gave a good quick spray into the slider mechanism. (This stuff evaporates very quickly).
Done deal, it instantly freed up and became silky smooth to operate. I figure age/gunge/junk had just built up in there and this just dissolved and blew it out.
This stuff fixed the sticking mirror on my Pentax Auto110, and now the focus slider on my A110! Is there anything it cannot do?

It is a piece of cake to take off the sliding shell. Just loosen the little screw at the right back of the film chamber and you can slide the shell right out. Clean it properly and relube it. Probably take you maybe ten minutes at most. My E110 had an intermittent shutter. I popped off the shell and cleaned the shutter cocking slider thingy and gears on the shell. Now it works great. No missed shots. Odds are the problem will resurface for you unless you remove the sticky old grease.

Patrick Robert James · Jun 8, 2021

Huss said:
Perhaps a simple question but... how do you know if a 110 cartridge is reloadable?
I have quite a few Kodak cartridges (unused) that came with the Fling single use cameras.

You need to split them apart. There are instructions on the interwebs. Easy to do, but you do need to use a razor blade or scalpel so caution goes without saying. Some cartridges are easier to get apart than others. So far in the limited number of ones I've taken apart, Agfa was the easiest, then Fuji. Kodak was the most difficult.

Patrick Robert James · Jun 8, 2021

Cholentpot said:
I can and will load into a 100 speed cart next time. I already started roll in 400 so I'll just see where it goes. Rodinal stand is my go-to when I mess something up. 1:100 for an hour and something should show up on the negatives.

I've run slit down film through the Auto 110 no problem. My issue is, right now I only have two empty 110 carts. Until I get more it's where I'm at. I wish someone would print a reloadable 110 cart. It would make things easier.

Remind me in a few months. I'll likely have more empty cartridges than I'll need.

Cholentpot · Jun 8, 2021

Patrick Robert James said:
Remind me in a few months. I'll likely have more empty cartridges than I'll need.

That would be appreciated. Along with the backing paper and spool. Going to dev the Tri-X right now.

Bronson Dugnutt · Jun 8, 2021

Slighty better results from d-19 reversal of double-x. The flatter contrast of the film compared to tri-x is apparent.

Huss · Jun 9, 2021

Rollei A110, Fuji Superia 200

Huss · Jun 9, 2021

Patrick Robert James said:
It is a piece of cake to take off the sliding shell. Just loosen the little screw at the right back of the film chamber and you can slide the shell right out. Clean it properly and relube it. Probably take you maybe ten minutes at most. My E110 had an intermittent shutter. I popped off the shell and cleaned the shutter cocking slider thingy and gears on the shell. Now it works great. No missed shots. Odds are the problem will resurface for you unless you remove the sticky old grease.

I checked out this site:
https://christopherstoll.org/cameras/1976-rollei-a110.html

I understand what you are saying but it is fixed now - so smooth and nice to focus - that there is no need to proceed any further!

Patrick Robert James · Jun 9, 2021

Huss said:
I checked out this site:
https://christopherstoll.org/cameras/1976-rollei-a110.html

I understand what you are saying but it is fixed now - so smooth and nice to focus - that there is no need to proceed any further!

I just threw that out there Huss because it is so simple, but as they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Cholentpot · Jun 9, 2021

Patrick Robert James said:
I just threw that out there Huss because it is so simple, but as they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Is it worth bidding on a broken one in hopes that I can douse it in contact cleaner and get a working camera?

110/16mm Camera Image Quality

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