What is the grainiest bw film and developer?

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

I don't have any dev times for rodinal. I have pushed un54 in the past successfully but didn't like the results beyond 200 ISO. It gets very contrasty very quickly.

I mean, I like contrast...
also, the film's got similar dev. times to hp5 so I could use that as a starting point.
(hp5- 6 min 1:25, UN54- 6.5 min 1:25)

 

[Sirius Glass]

I prefer XTOL, replenished XTOL and other versions of XTOL because of the very fine grain, great contrast, consistency and forgiveness.

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

I've used Xtol and D76 for high contrast, fine grained films like P30. I've also regularly used hc110, but I'd never even tried Rodinal before starting this experiment.

 

[AnselMortensen]

A general "rule of thumb" for "push" development is 1.4 x normal development time for a 1-stop push, and doubling the normal time for a 2-stop push.
YMMV, of course.
Rodinal isn't considered a particularly good "push" developer, but... grain your goal is, grain get you will. (with a tip of the hat to Yoda)

 

[Sanug]

For heavy grain, Tetenal Neofin was an alternative to Rodinal. Neofin has been discontinued, but Adox FX-39 II is based on a similiar formula by Beutler.

Adox does not recommend FX-39 II for ISO 400 and higher films due to the grain.

You could give it a try with Lomo Berlin or Bergger Pancro.

 

[bluechromis]

Not much grain at all. Maybe a 1/2 frame camera, or shoot with a 24mm and crop in?

I recall a pro photographer who took pictures of models in curled up positions with Minox miniature-sized film. I don't know what size he printed them, but they were pointillistic, grainier than the examples shared.

 

[Alan Johnson]

LFA Mason, Photographic Processing Chemistry,1975 p120:
"Graininess is also often worse at high pH values, due partly to the rapid development of the coarse grains and partly to the greater spread of the silver filaments into the much softer gelatin."
I have seen this adding sodium hydroxide to a metol sulfite developer, the grain gets larger. If too much is added the result is mottling.

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

A general "rule of thumb" for "push" development is 1.4 x normal development time for a 1-stop push, and doubling the normal time for a 2-stop push.
YMMV, of course.
Rodinal isn't considered a particularly good "push" developer, but... grain your goal is, grain get you will. (with a tip of the hat to Yoda)

thank you- I'll definitely consider this. though I'm thinking based on minimal research the average push limit is 3-4 stops over.

For heavy grain, Tetenal Neofin was an alternative to Rodinal. Neofin has been discontinued, but Adox FX-39 II is based on a similiar formula by Beutler.

Adox does not recommend FX-39 II for ISO 400 and higher films due to the grain.

You could give it a try with Lomo Berlin or Bergger Pancro.

adding that one to my try list for the grainiest films I find in these first cycles.

LFA Mason, Photographic Processing Chemistry,1975 p120:
"Graininess is also often worse at high pH values, due partly to the rapid development of the coarse grains and partly to the greater spread of the silver filaments into the much softer gelatin."
I have seen this adding sodium hydroxide to a metol sulfite developer, the grain gets larger. If too much is added the result is mottling.

fascinating.

 

[Erik L]

The obvious answer is Batmax 400 in it’s proprietary developer

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Something I've been thinking recently, since I tend to prefer fine grained bw film photography, what would be the polar opposite? I ordered myself some Adox Rodinal, and I've got plans to test Film Washi F, Rollei Paul and Reinhold, and Lomo Berlin 400 (keep in mind I don't really have many opportunities to try delta or tmax 3200), but I'm wondering, is there a different combination of film and developer that would give me coarser results?

Note: grain is mostly a film characteristic and less so a devcharacteristic.

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

next test: FPP Derev pan 400 (99.9% confident this is Svema Foto 400) in 1:25.
Another one I am very satisfied with, and qualifies for push and lower dilution trials

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

also just started a dilution/ push calculations sheet

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

while information's definitely being lost in compression- Foma Ortho 400 in 1:25 Rodinal is one of the grainiest 400 speed examples yet, and definitely qualifies for lower dilution tests

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

currently- still trying more 400 speed films in 1:25, but I'm also starting the low dilution developments- just did Hp5 in Rodinal 1:12, and will try more lower dilutions and more qualifying films. also planning on trying Adox FX 39 in the spring- want to do Dektol too, but don't know when

 

[John Wiegerink]

next test: FPP Derev pan 400 (99.9% confident this is Svema Foto 400) in 1:25.
Another one I am very satisfied with, and qualifies for push and lower dilution trials View attachment 412765 View attachment 412766 View attachment 412767View attachment 412768 View attachment 412769

Main street Coopersville, MI my home town. My father was born there in 1924 on our farm. The last picture with the sign Del Shannon car show says it all. Chuck Westover (Del Shannon) taught my mom how to drive a 39 Ford with a stick shift by taking her out in a wheat stumble field and she learned from there. My folks and Del Shannons folks were very good friends.

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

Main street Coopersville, MI my home town. My father was born there in 1924 on our farm. The last picture with the sign Del Shannon car show says it all. Chuck Westover (Del Shannon) taught my mom how to drive a 39 Ford with a stick shift by taking her out in a wheat stumble field and she learned from there. My folks and Del Shannons folks were very good friends.

Absolutely incredible.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Absolutely incredible.

Yes, he lived just down the road from us in the country. I remember Chuck coming over to our house and he held his jeans up with braided binder twine from bailing hay and straw. No fancy leather belt for him. His dad Bert ran a road grader for Ottawa County Road Commission. His mom was a real character and always good for a laff. Ah, the good old days! Well, they seem like the good old days now, but things were pretty hard on some folks back then.
Those pictures of yours are high contrast, which helps them look even more grainy. I don't worship grain, but I don't hate it either.

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

Kind of a bonus-
age unknown, assumed 20 some years expired Tmax 400 in Rodinal 1:25. grainier than I thought, but fresh would definitely be finer grained.

 

[Larry Bullis]

Reticulation gives what appears to be coarse grain. I never had it happen to me but have seen some examples.

Also shooting half-frame gets you more grain.

The most grain I’ve ever had was Super-XX expired from the forties, exposed as low as the meter can go EI 2-4.

There’s a thread where I showed some of these examples.

The reticulated prospector

 

[Franklee]

Wouldn't a condenser enlarger make a grainier PRINT than a cold light or color head? It will make the same negative contrasty-er which could emphasize grain in the mid and high tones.

 

[RezaLoghme]

Something I've been thinking recently, since I tend to prefer fine grained bw film photography, what would be the polar opposite? I ordered myself some Adox Rodinal, and I've got plans to test Film Washi F, Rollei Paul and Reinhold, and Lomo Berlin 400 (keep in mind I don't really have many opportunities to try delta or tmax 3200), but I'm wondering, is there a different combination of film and developer that would give me coarser results?

I am using XP2 and find it very grainy (in a good way).

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

C41, or regular bw developer?

 

[RezaLoghme]

C41, or regular bw developer?

C41.

 

[albireo]

C41.

That's really interesting - I've used a fair amount of XP2+ in 120 developed in C41 and it is one of the most grainless films I've used - especially in the highlights, which render in a unique way.

 

[John Wiegerink]

That's really interesting - I've used a fair amount of XP2+ in 120 developed in C41 and it is one of the most grainless films I've used - especially in the highlights, which render in a unique way.

Yes, that has me puzzled too. Never had grain issues or more grain than normal with XP2. I rated it mostly at ISO 200 unless light fell to much and then would move my ASA/ISO dial to 400-800. Of course RezaLoghme uses 35mm and lab development I believe. Still, I wouldn't think grain should be an issue with either.