Top Of The Line 1-Degree Meters Don't Support "Zone" Metering??

[faberryman]

Yes, and the lack of any manufacturer making a NEW version of that with the sticker already in place, is the root of this thread!

The reason no one makes stickers for the new meters, including the manufacturers, is that the new meters have digital readouts.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

Folks, I truly intend no disrespect. But what's so difficult about calculating f-stops? The only real difference between a ZS enabled meter and one which isn't is, the former converts the math from f-stop 5.6/8/11 to 1/2/3... or 4/5/6... or ?/?/?... depending on where Zones are placed.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

It also takes the Profi-Spot attachment, which will give you 10º - 5º - 1º metering capability and built in dioptre correction. Mine works a treat.

Going very slightly off topic, combine the Profi-Spot attachment and the Profi-Flex attachment, I have the possibility to have various narrow metering capabilities, as well as off the ground glass for what is effectively TTL metering on my view cameras.

The 7.5º and 15º attachment is not bad, but compared to the 10º - 5º - 1º attachment, not in the same league. I have both of these attachments, both have their plusses and minuses.

Mick.

View attachment 193720

I just had a colonoscopy and the sensor with the long probe makes me wonder if it's a meter for medical photography.

 

[ic-racer]

The reason no one makes stickers for the new meters, including the manufacturers, is that the new meters have digital readouts.

I meant 'the sticker' as a metaphor for "Zone Metering" of any type.

 

[ic-racer]

Folks, I truly intend no disrespect. But what's so difficult about calculating f-stops? The only real difference between a ZS enabled meter and one which isn't is, the former converts the math from f-stop 5.6/8/11 to 1/2/3... or 4/5/6... or ?/?/?... depending on where Zones are placed.

One points the meter at a subject and measures the zone II value. The meter shows f1.3 on the digital display.
You then point the meter at two highlights and get f17 and f20.7. What are the two highlight zones using your method?

You want to over-expose by 1/3 stop for the bellows factor. Which f-stop do you set on the lens with your method to take this picture?

A) f3.7
B) f7.3
C) f2.6
D) Where is my Zone scale/???

 

[faberryman]

I think you can safely round f1.3 up to f1.4, round f17 down to f16, and round f20.7 up to f22. So you've got Zone II, Zone IX and Zone X. You are going to need minus development. How much depends on what Zone you want to put your highlights on. The 1/3 stop for the bellows factor is a rounding error. Shutter speeds are in 1 stop increments and 1/3 stops are not marked on the aperture scale of your lens.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I think you can safely round f1.3 up to f1.4, round f17 down to f16, and round f20.7 up f22. So you've got Zone II, Zone IX and Zone X. You are going to need minus development. How much depends on what Zone you want to put your highlights on.

NO! NO! NO! Zone-eastas must do things exactly. Rounding off and approximations are not allowed after thousands of hours spent in repetitive and redundant testing!

 

[faberryman]

NO! NO! NO! Zone-eastas must do things exactly. Rounding off and approximations are not allowed after thousands of hours spent in repetitive and redundant testing!

Good luck setting you shutter speed and aperture to the exact result, even assuming they are accurate. And to the minus development, well, make sure you don't sneeze while agitating. It really screws up the results.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

One points the meter at a subject and measures the zone II value. The meter shows f1.3 on the digital display.
You then point the meter at two highlights and get f17 and f20.7. What are the two highlight zones using your method?

You want to over-expose by 1/3 stop for the bellows factor. Which f-stop do you set on the lens with your method to take this picture?

A) f3.7
B) f7.3
C) f2.6
D) Where is my Zone scale/???

I get your point. I can only guess you're referring to slide film?? What Zone do you want placed where?

 

[ic-racer]

If you round one value UP and another DOWN by a 1/4 stop, the difference between the values is off by 1/2 stop.

 

[faberryman]

If you round one value UP and another DOWN by a 1/4 stop, the difference between the values is off by 1/2 stop.

And how, in your example, will that change your shutter speed/f-stop selection, and subsequent processing. The precision you are after is a red herring. At some point you are going to have to look up from your whiz bang meter and press the shutter.

 

[ic-racer]

Good luck setting you shutter speed and aperture to the exact result, even assuming they are accurate. And to the minus development, well, make sure you don't sneeze while agitating. It really screws up the results.

The resultant F-stop to set on the lens can be rounded or estimated if desired. But one first needs to know the value by calculating it from the given data. Shutter speed and development parameters do not need to be know to find the required aperture from the data.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

IC... yes, we must remember what we've done... rounding up/down and decide whether to go high or low or split the difference. One half f-stop is only relevant when shooting slide film or living right on the very edge of underexposure for negative film.

 

[faberryman]

The resultant F-stop to set on the lens can be rounded or estimated if desired. But one first needs to know the value by calculating it from the given data. Shutter speed and development parameters do not need to be know to find the required aperture from the data.

And what did your whiz bang meter tell you to do? What did you conclude after careful calculation?

 

[ic-racer]

I get your point. I can only guess you're referring to slide film?? What Zone do you want placed where?

If you fix the shutter speed on the meter, these are the values it shows. You can 'dumb down' the digital display and have it round to the nearest full-f-stop.

 

[Sirius Glass]

NO! NO! NO! Zone-eastas must do things exactly. Rounding off and approximations are not allowed after thousands of hours spent in repetitive and redundant testing!

Good luck setting you shutter speed and aperture to the exact result, even assuming they are accurate. And to the minus development, well, make sure you don't sneeze while agitating. It really screws up the results.

If you round one value UP and another DOWN by a 1/4 stop, the difference between the values is off by 1/2 stop.

And how, in your example, will that change your shutter speed/f-stop selection, and subsequent processing. The precision you are after is a red herring. At some point you are going to have to look up from your whiz bang meter and press the shutter.

The resultant F-stop to set on the lens can be rounded or estimated if desired. But one first needs to know the value by calculating it from the given data. Shutter speed and development parameters do not need to be know to find the required aperture from the data.

IC... yes, we must remember what we've done... rounding up/down and decide whether to go high or low or split the difference. One half f-stop is only relevant when shooting slide film or living right on the very edge of underexposure for negative film.

For those who have not read about my thoughts on the Zone System, I use its techniques but I do not take the testing and the rigor seriously. Most lenses are limited to plus or minus 1/2 f/stop or 1/3 f/stop while shutter speeds are limited to the available settings [putting the shutter in between two settings will yield one of the other, usually the last one passed through]. Depending on the negative film one can get from six to twelve [some can get more] stops but printing on paper is limited to five to seven stops. So we make approximations and then dodge, burn, bleach, and tone to get the result that we want.

Important aside: The Zone System is easy to use with sheet film, more work to use with roll film especially 135-36. Therefore I use it to put the area of interest in the correct zone. I do not use the N-1, N+1, N-2, ... development. But with the modern films' dynamic range, one does not need to often or ever.

 

[ic-racer]

And what did your whiz bang meter tell you to do? What did you conclude after careful calculation?

The meter is in the mail, so I have not tried this yet, but three clicks of the jog wheel (zone II to V) should scroll through the zones, and it would have displayed f3.7. It has a exposure factor function (separate from the filter factor on the jog wheel) and that can be set to 1/3. The manual does not say what happens when it is set to display 1/4 stops and you ask for a 1/3 stop correction. I'm guessing it will round and display 2.6. I don't know exactly what it will do.

In my problem above, my choice is "Where is My Zone Dial!"

 

[faberryman]

In my problem above, my choice is "Where is My Zone Dial!"

How have you been determining exposure up until now?

 

[ic-racer]

Actually, I'm only discussing "Zone metering" and not any "Zone System."

I actually don't use a "Zone System" but a spot meter requires some sort of compensation for the values. That is Zone Metering. This should not be confused with Zone System.

But let me ask anyone reading this thread.

What Other Use for the Spot meter if not "Zone Metering" (in this Sekonic type digital meter with no zone scale)
Are you only looking for the middle gray value in the scene and spotting that? Are you averaging multiple readings? Are you using the incident meter and just keep the lens cap on all the time?

 

[ic-racer]

How have you been determining exposure up until now?

My old-standby L-206 is fully analog. It has the traditional metering ring. Just swing it around a stop at a time. I do Zone meter just exactly like you are suggesting, by spinning the dial and count as I go. rounding higher or lower than the numbers based on if the needle is above or below the mark. Again, my rant is not against you. You are right. It is against the digital meter with no analog ring to spin or no ZONE SCALE in the software!

But just to get you back on track with your argument, you are OK with a complex digital meter that shows oddball fraction stops and, in spite of more computing power than my first Commadore 64, won't even give you the zones? Realize the point of my rant is my fancy new meter is no way perfect for the type of photography that we all do (on this forum).

 

[Bill Burk]

I use this zone sticker on my L-758DR

http://beefalobill.com/images/zone.pdf

Stupidly simple, instead of the factory clipping points, I adjust the clipping points to fall on whole stops. Then this sticker relates any one reading to a Zone... I give you I, II, V, VIII and IX... you have to imagine the rest.

 

[Sirius Glass]

It also takes the Profi-Spot attachment, which will give you 10º - 5º - 1º metering capability and built in dioptre correction. Mine works a treat.

Going very slightly off topic, combine the Profi-Spot attachment and the Profi-Flex attachment, I have the possibility to have various narrow metering capabilities, as well as off the ground glass for what is effectively TTL metering on my view cameras.

The 7.5º and 15º attachment is not bad, but compared to the 10º - 5º - 1º attachment, not in the same league. I have both of these attachments, both have their plusses and minuses.

Mick.

View attachment 193720

I did not know about the 10º - 5º - 1º attachment when I bought the 15º - 7.5º attachment. I felt lucky I found a 15º - 7.5º attachment in great working condition.

 

[paul ron]

as mentioned by some very experianced people, the pentax spot meter is an excelent choice.

the luna pro sbc with the spot attachment is another excelent meter.

both can get zone stickers... the sbc has the zones already on its dial.

 

[ic-racer]

I use this zone sticker on my L-758DR

http://beefalobill.com/images/zone.pdf

Stupidly simple, instead of the factory clipping points, I adjust the clipping points to fall on whole stops. Then this sticker relates any one reading to a Zone... I give you I, II, V, VIII and IX... you have to imagine the rest.

Bill, thanks for seeing the thread, I was hoping for some Sekonic users to chime in.
That looks like a nice solution, I'll have to admit I ignored the exposure profiling in the meters newer than the 558 with the understanding it was for digital cameras. I'll have to look into this more. Maybe I got the wrong Sekonic.

 

[Craig]

I used to do a bunch of calculating. Then I found I could point my Nikon F6, set to matrix metering at the scene and it gave me the same numbers much quicker. So that's what I do now.