Top Of The Line 1-Degree Meters Don't Support "Zone" Metering??

ic-racer · Jan 17, 2018

I'm in the market for a new meter. I have quite a few but nothing newer than 1980s. My most commonly used meter is a Sekonic L-206 10-degree "View Meter" which was designed in 1966 and my example is from 1975. It still works fine but my wife offered to buy me a new meter of my choice for Christmas. BTW I like the 206, it is a conventional reflected light meter but it has a narrow view (10 degrees) and you get to see the metered area. I actually works very very well, because you can choose to omit highlights or non-uniform areas of the scene and get very good average readings. For B&W almost always a single reading is just right.

Back to my meter hunt:

I find it mind boggling that Sekonic has been making some of the finest 1-degree spot meters since the 1980s (and even the newest model that just was released, the L-858 @ $600 USD) provide no easy way to "Zone Meter."

Like... what??? What did they think you were going to do with the spot meter?? Average a bunch of numbers into the same reading you would get had they given you a 10 degree view meter (like my old 206??).

Anyway, I have a L-558 on the way and the reason I got it, even though it has no 'Zone Meter' capacity is that there is a workaround that I'm going to use.

It is simply the mater of re-naming the zones and using the meters jog wheel to set "Filter Factors" that will be surrogates for the metered zones.

My new zones as follows

Zone 0 becomes Zone +5
Zone 1 becomes Zone +4
Zone 2 becomes Zone +3 (onset of texture)
Zone 3 becomes Zone +2
Zone 4 becomes Zone +1
Zone 5 becomes Zone 0 (middle gray)
Zone 6 becomes Zone -1 (skin)
Zone 7 becomes Zone -2
Zone 8 becomes Zone -3 (highlight)

ic-racer · Jan 17, 2018

Which meters did I look up?

Frequently I find it easier to get to know a single brand and become an expert on just those items. Choosing to ignore the other brands. Since Sekonic still makes meters and my favorite is a Sekonic, I went with Sekonic.

These are the meters I researched:
L-328 Nice compact, but the add-on 5 degree spot attachment makes it a little clunky
L-408 Looks compact, somewhat waterproof, high on the list but 5 degree spot not wide enough to average like my 10 degree and not narrow enough for Zone Metering.
L-438 Very hight on the list, basically a super deluxe version of my L-206 View meter. Goes from 10 to 3 degrees. However, nearly just as old, and is a lot bigger than the 206. Does not improve on L206 poor low light performance. Mechanical/galvometer meter.
L-488 Pistol-type. Very high on the list. Goes between 20 degrees and 1 degree (great!) By the specs it is smaller than some other pistol type meters. Smaller than the 558 I bought. However, I actually do use incident when shooting cine, so I'd still need another meter.
L-508 Big and has a zoom but only out to 5 degrees. Again 5 degrees is too narrow to really average a scene so not much use. I'd just use the 1-degree all the time.
L-558 I found one of these new in box. Lack of all the digital features of the L7xx and L8xx makes it easier to use. Jog wheel is a plus as mentioned in first post. Has one of the highest sensitivities in low light (EV 1 with the 1 degree spot). Drawback, it is huge!
L-608 Like above but 4-degree to 1-degree zoom. Does not seem to be any advantage. Zoom range is so narrow.
L-758 For the e-bay asking prices I'd just get the new 858 with warranty
L-778 same as above
L-858 almost bought this new but L-558 was almost 1/3 the price. If the L558 fails, then I'll get this one.

Theo Sulphate · Jan 17, 2018

My Zone VI Industries Pentax Digital spotmeter has a Zone System scale affixed (glued) next to the existing scales. Crude, but it works.

My Luna Pro does have a Zone scale, but alas, doesn't have 1-degree metering.

Old-N-Feeble · Jan 17, 2018

I've never understood the need for a Zone Scale. One f-stop above the zeroed meter is Zone VI. Two f-stops below the zeroed meter is Zone III.

ic-racer · Jan 17, 2018

Final note. Looking at the technology in the new L-858 it is so sad that 90% of it is useless to someone with an 8x10 field camera and B&W film. For example the L-858 manual is 208 pages long and there is a SINGLE PARAGRAPH on the top of Page 39 on reflected light measurement. The ONLY INSTRUCTIONS for the 1-degree spot involve switching the MEMORY and MEASURE buttons to make it easier to hold it to your eye. No mention of what one would do with a spot reading or how to Zone meter.

Ok, so it is like the 1-degree feature is some vestigial feature, why would I even consider it? Because there are so few spot meters on the market that are available new.
Just the L-858, Gossen Starlight and the Kenko KFM-2200 listed at B&H. The other spots listed are >$2000 commercial cine spot meters.

ic-racer · Jan 17, 2018

Old-N-Feeble said:
I've never understood the need for a Zone Scale. One f-stop above the zeroed meter is Zone VI. Two f-stops below the zeroed meter is Zone III.

First off, thanks for the comments. That is why I posted; to get reaction and see what others are doing.

For me that is too many numbers to remember. So, say f8 for the reading of zone III you will place. Then all others are 'fall.' So you get a f32 and f64 for your next two readings. You know those zones right a way right? I don't. I have to count up the scale from f8 and use my fingers if I don't have a visual reference.

Old-N-Feeble · Jan 17, 2018

Sorry, I intended no disrespect. I guess I always found converting f-stops to zones second nature. But I took up analog photography at age 13 and became completely absorbed by it.

mpirie · Jan 18, 2018

I use an L758DR and have the second ISO button set to give me 2 stops less.

Measure the area desired as Zone III, take the measurement, then press the ISO2 button and read off the exposure.

RalphLambrecht · Jan 18, 2018

ic-racer said:
I'm in the market for a new meter. I have quite a few but nothing newer than 1980s. My most commonly used meter is a Sekonic L-206 10-degree "View Meter" which was designed in 1966 and my example is from 1975. It still works fine but my wife offered to buy me a new meter of my choice for Christmas. BTW I like the 206, it is a conventional reflected light meter but it has a narrow view (10 degrees) and you get to see the metered area. I actually works very very well, because you can choose to omit highlights or non-uniform areas of the scene and get very good average readings. For B&W almost always a single reading is just right.

Back to my meter hunt:

I find it mind boggling that Sekonic has been making some of the finest 1-degree spot meters since the 1980s (and even the newest model that just was released, the L-858 @ $600 USD) provide no easy way to "Zone Meter."

Like... what??? What did they think you were going to do with the spot meter?? Average a bunch of numbers into the same reading you would get had they given you a 10 degree view meter (like my old 206??).

Anyway, I have a L-558 on the way and the reason I got it, even though it has no 'Zone Meter' capacity is that there is a workaround that I'm going to use.

It is simply the mater of re-naming the zones and using the meters jog wheel to set "Filter Factors" that will be surrogates for the metered zones.

My new zones as follows

Zone 0 becomes Zone +5
Zone 1 becomes Zone +4
Zone 2 becomes Zone +3 (onset of texture)
Zone 3 becomes Zone +2
Zone 4 becomes Zone +1
Zone 5 becomes Zone 0 (middle gray)
Zone 6 becomes Zone -1 (skin)
Zone 7 becomes Zone -2
Zone 8 becomes Zone -3 (highlight)

In my

RalphLambrecht · Jan 18, 2018

Theo Sulphate said:
My Zone VI Industries Pentax Digital spotmeter has a Zone System scale affixed (glued) next to the existing scales. Crude, but it works.

My Luna Pro does have a Zone scale, but alas, doesn't have 1-degree metering.

View attachment 193696

it's an old threat but ,here it goes anyway:In my opinion, the best and easiest Zone meter ever build was thePentax Digital Spotmeter with a Zonesticker applied.

Craig75 · Jan 18, 2018

ic-racer said:
Final note. Looking at the technology in the new L-858 it is so sad that 90% of it is useless to someone with an 8x10 field camera and B&W film. For example the L-858 manual is 208 pages long and there is a SINGLE PARAGRAPH on the top of Page 39 on reflected light measurement. The ONLY INSTRUCTIONS for the 1-degree spot involve switching the MEMORY and MEASURE buttons to make it easier to hold it to your eye. No mention of what one would do with a spot reading or how to Zone meter.

Ok, so it is like the 1-degree feature is some vestigial feature, why would I even consider it? Because there are so few spot meters on the market that are available new.
Just the L-858, Gossen Starlight and the Kenko KFM-2200 listed at B&H. The other spots listed are >$2000 commercial cine spot meters.

Look at page 121. You should be able to use contrast function

chip j · Jan 18, 2018

Did AA use a Zone sticker??

jeffreyg · Jan 18, 2018

+ one to what Ralph said. I have two of them. They are straight forward to use and the stick-on scale is right where you need it. I also have a Luna Pro and Ultra Pro which I mostly use for incident readings for pinhole or rarely used flash with the Ultra Pro.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

Chan Tran · Jan 18, 2018

chip j said:
Did AA use a Zone sticker??

Don't know if he did but in his book there is picture of a Pentax spotmeter with the zone sticker.

E. von Hoegh · Jan 18, 2018

chip j said:
Did AA use a Zone sticker??

I've no idea if he did.
But the Zone system was developed using Weston Master meters, decidedly not spotmeters, but their calculator dials may have been partly inspirational.

tedr1 · Jan 18, 2018

Have you considered the Pentax Spotmeter V? They change hands on ebay in working order for about $100. My suggestion is not a new meter so perhaps it doesn't fit the bill 100%. It does one job and does it well. I added a zone sticker to mine, there is a graphic in the Photrio articles section that can be printed and made to fit

Here's the sticker https://www.photrio.com/forum/resources/adding-a-zone-dial-to-the-pentax-spotmeter-v.340/

Sirius Glass · Jan 18, 2018

I use a Gossen Luna Pro SBC which has filter compensation and a Zone System scale. It also takes a 15 degree and 7.5 degree spot meter. It works to very low light levels.

Mainecoonmaniac · Jan 18, 2018

How about Ralph Lambrecht's Zone Dial? Works with E.V.

http://www.waybeyondmonochrome.com/WBM/Library_files/TemplatesEd2.pdf

faberryman · Jan 18, 2018

I don't understand the OP's problem. You just have to be able to count to four up or down, which you can do on your free hand.

ic-racer · Jan 18, 2018

chip j said:
Did AA use a Zone sticker??

AA experts correct me. My understanding is at some time he used older Weston meters that had indicators on the dial that would represent limits of texture. Essentially zone II and IX.

ic-racer · Jan 18, 2018

RalphLambrecht said:
it's an old threat but ,here it goes anyway:In my opinion, the best and easiest Zone meter ever build was thePentax Digital Spotmeter with a Zonesticker applied.

Yes, and the lack of any manufacturer making a NEW version of that with the sticker already in place, is the root of this thread!

ic-racer · Jan 18, 2018

Mainecoonmaniac said:
How about Ralph Lambrecht's Zone Dial? Works with E.V.

http://www.waybeyondmonochrome.com/WBM/Library_files/TemplatesEd2.pdf

Absolutely, that is great, but why won't the spot-meter manufacturers incorporate that into the meter. For example, there is no reason the touch-pad screen on the new Sekonic L858 could not incorporate screens and functions that that graphically show all the information on that static PDF. Wouldn't that be great!

For example, there is no limit in techonology or hardware or software to prevent the meter from showing YOUR OWN H&D CURVE FAMILIES (that you input) and how your metered scene falls on the curves.

Mick Fagan · Jan 18, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
I use a Gossen Luna Pro SBC which has filter compensation and a Zone System scale. It also takes a 15 degree and 7.5 degree spot meter. It works to very low light levels.

It also takes the Profi-Spot attachment, which will give you 10º - 5º - 1º metering capability and built in dioptre correction. Mine works a treat.

Going very slightly off topic, combine the Profi-Spot attachment and the Profi-Flex attachment, I have the possibility to have various narrow metering capabilities, as well as off the ground glass for what is effectively TTL metering on my view cameras.

The 7.5º and 15º attachment is not bad, but compared to the 10º - 5º - 1º attachment, not in the same league. I have both of these attachments, both have their plusses and minuses.

Mick.

Craig75 · Jan 18, 2018

Any half way decent modern meter will tell you the how many stops of contrast your scene has by taking a highlight and shadow reading. I dont understand what else you need to know.

Paul Howell · Jan 18, 2018

I have a Weston Ranger 9 with a factory zone scale, and a Soilgar with a paste one scale, don't recall where I got the zone scale, In the 60s I used the Ranger 9 when I took Minor White's summer class, by that time he was using a Pentax meter with a factory scale. But has other say, no real reason for a scale, easy to figure once you know zone V.

Top Of The Line 1-Degree Meters Don't Support "Zone" Metering??

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency