The Ilford 120 film issue - which films have people seen affected?

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AgX

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It isn't a defective batch of film that needs to be recalled, it's some films that have not been stored in accordance with recommendations and used after or near the expiry date.

No, we had in the Kodak and in the Harman case members who stated to have stored the films properly. Moreover, not differently than they stored rollfilms the previous decades of working with rollfilm.

Also see my reference above to the issue of mottling as such being known to manufacturers since decades but not being reported by photographers.


Concerning your reference to a "recall of a defective" product:

The issue is basically a legal one. At least over here.
Recalls are done by manufacturers at least when safety/health issues are involved, in such cases authorities even can and did order recalls.

In other cases it is a grey zone.
In Germany we had cases were a court ordered cancelling of sales of a product, which included a recall. But this cases were more obvious violations than a product having a high or higher rate of not producing the intended effect. It would need a dedicated court case against Harman.

In the past we had a new member here who to own saying was affected badly as commercial photographer by cases of Kodak rollfilms showing print-transfer. As Kodak did know about these issues seemingly for a long time, but did neither warn buyers nor recalled these films, he wanted higher compensation than the usual substitution of bad films, but instead the cost of his labour and other expenses he had in commercially using those films.
He made a call at Photrio at other photographers who were affected to make a groups claim with him. For this he was banned in no time from Photrio.
So we did not learn how this interesting case turned out...
 
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radiant

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I've never had issues with any of the Ilford 120 films I've been shooting over the years... HP5, FP4, Pan F, Delta 100, and 400, SFX... (soundly knocking on wood!)

Next thread by Andrew O'Neill "what is wrong with my Ilford negatives" :wink:
 

Ernst-Jan

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Damn. I have plenty of 120 HP5+

So I contact them and they will send me replacement?
I shot many rolls of HP5+ the last year, never had a problem with it. Neither did I have problems with FP4+, Delta 100 or Ortho+, although the numbers I shot of this films were much lower, especially of the last two.
 

AgX

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IWell, so far we discussed paper/emulsion interference as the culprit. And there was indication to this being rightfully.
Now in this statement paper is not even mentioned...

But in my archive I found one hint at Harman using the term "wrapper" (used in this new statement) for the backing paper and not for the packaging hull of a complete rolll-film spool as usual). In case I find back the original document I shall report back.

I meanwhile found the original Harman document and that hint fooled me. No, Harman did not use the term "wrapper" for the backing paper in the past. So in this new statement with "wrapper" they refer to changes at the foil packaging instead.
 

BrianShaw

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I would agree with that interpretation. Seems to me that they are being very responsible in addressing the issue.
 

Bill Burk

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Just in case anyone thinks this is/was an Ilford only problem, this was from a roll of TX that was a few years out of date. This film may have been through an airport machine, I don't know if that would cause this.
View attachment 300767

This was not your fault or any fault in your handling or transporting the film.

Kodak had a real problem and it's fixed with current stock you can tell by rolls that have the "shiny" paper backing.
 

MattKing

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I meanwhile found the original Harman document and that hint fooled me. No, Harman did not use the term "wrapper" for the backing paper in the past. So in this new statement with "wrapper" they refer to changes at the foil packaging instead.
The reference to "wrapper" is a reference to "wrapper offset", which is a term related to the interaction between the film and the backing paper/ink. That term was used a fair bit by Simon Galley and others back when the discussion about the problems that Kodak was experiencing was so prevalent.
"Wrapper offset" has been used for a long time to describe the problem.
 

AgX

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The term "wrapper" in this meaning does not show up at any british source I got. Are you sure Simon used it? Maybe he adapted to his US clientel here at Apug. I searched of course before at Photrio and only found one headline with this meaning, but several with the meaning of foil packaging.
 

miha

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AgX

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But as non-native speaker, you have to admit that such non-standard use of terminology is very confusing.

(Non-standard in the meaning that I do not find it in british photo-encyclopedia, even Ilford textbooks, and by meaning something different than in the dictionary meaning, in which it is used by Ilford too.)
 

MattKing

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I'm guessing that "wrapper offset" might be more commonly found in Kodak usage.
 

AgX

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Yes, and as words-combination and with our background knowledge it is unabiguous. But "wrapper" on its own can be misleading.

But this all is banter, as Harman won't be communicating with us anyway, making things clear.
 

AgX

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That thread was the only result my search brought up, and the one which I referred to above.

The issue is that when reading some new terminolgy once in context (here even as words-combination), it may make sense, and thus one does not memorize it. But coming it across later without context or adding terms, it may be confusing.

I am daily busy with photoengineering in 3 languages and then terminology really becomes an issue.
 

macfred

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That thread was the only result my search brought up, and the one which I referred to above.

The issue is that when reading some new terminolgy once in context (here even as words-combination), it may make sense, and thus one does not memorize it. But coming it across later without context or adding terms, it may be confusing.

I am daily busy with photoengineering in 3 languages and then terminology really becomes an issue.


It was just a little joke - I was familiar with the term as I had several (Kodak) films that were affected and I read several posts about this issue.
 

AgX

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Do you want to learn a new term ?

In Germany in the past for backing paper the french-origin term "Allonge" was used.
 

macfred

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Ah, that's interesting - I know allonge wigs ... A long curly and large wig for gentlemen.

Bildschirmfoto 2022-03-19 um 22.12.07.png
 

removedacct1

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The only times I have ever had any of the 120 roll film defects of the sort we're discussing is when I have allowed film to sit at room temperature and age beyond their best before date. I have come to the conclusion that hoarding 120 film is risky business, so I don't do it anymore. I keep only as much film on hand as I expect to be able to use before it hits its stale date. I am also inclined to refrigerate 120 rolls now as well.
Ilford makes it pretty clear in their recent message that improper storage of 120 film is likely going to have adverse effects on the film, especially as the stale date is reached. IE: this problem is easily avoided.
 

miha

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But as non-native speaker, you have to admit that such non-standard use of terminology is very confusing.

It is confusing. By wrapper I thought too they were referring to the foil.
 

eurekaiv

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I bought a couple rolls of slightly out of date (like 3-4 months) Acros II from Freestyle a few weeks back and both exhibited the white spot fault
 
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John Wiegerink

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I bought a couple rolls of slightly out of date (like 3-4 months) Acros II from Freestyle a few weeks back and both exhibited the white spot fault
What do you mean by "white spot fault"? The pre-number dots bleeding into the film emulsion? I bought 30 rolls of it and haven't seen that problem yet, but it might not show in the scenes I shoot. I've only shot three rolls of it so far, since I'm shooting mainly Ilford at the moment. Has anyone else seen this on the Fuji Acros sale film from Adorama? JohnW
 

eurekaiv

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The fault discussed in this thread… where small white spots show up on the film. Here's a crop from the first and second roll from an Autocord and Fuji GS645w, in that order.

upload_2022-3-20_17-40-22.png
upload_2022-3-20_17-43-45.png
 
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