Statement from Harman Technology regarding recent sale to Pemberstone Ventures Ltd.

[Xmas]

It is if you want be re-elected onto the council.

There is the 11th commandment?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_Robinson

 

[Xmas]

The price of that drug for Toxoplasmosis is STILL going up. He says he will roll back "some" of the increase.

I saw a new price (still an outrageous increase just not AS outrageous) somewhere but can't find it now so we'll see.

But I don't think Ilford/Harman will do anything like that. For one thing, Adox and Foma and, for now at least, Kodak make competing problems. Cries about Kodak price increases are mainly sheet film and bulk 35mm film. Rolls of both 35mm and 120 are still competitive.

As well there is orwo cine mono.

Which I'm told is available in USA also as 100 foot bulk maybe 135 as well do not know. I will buy in 400 or 1000 foot cans anyway.

And Acros is still available?

Eastman increment cine $ regular if you are on a budget ... It is like getting a kossigram from Mr Judas Iscariot.

 

[PeterB]

Why did posts to this thread stop over 2 weeks ago? I guess if it was locked then this question won't get through.
In fact there has only been one other post mentioning Pemberstone since then which strikes me as odd.

 

[John Bragg]

Why did posts to this thread stop over 2 weeks ago? I guess if it was locked then this question won't get through.
In fact there has only been one other post mentioning Pemberstone since then which strikes me as odd.

I guess a lot has been said on the subject. I keep looking for more posts but nothing. I will keep on shooting Ilford as I am sure many here will. Best way to ensure their future is to buy the product.

 

[PeterB]

I guess a lot has been said on the subject. I keep looking for more posts but nothing. I will keep on shooting Ilford as I am sure many here will. Best way to ensure their future is to buy the product.

I agree , Shoot Ilford film ! I just thought it really strange - almost as if there was a media blackout on APUG about the acquisition.

Did Simon Galley drop us a hello?

For something that is the biggest thing to happen to Ilford since the management buyout, the discussion about it terminated very suddenly.

 

[juan]

Best way to ensure their future is to buy the product.

Unfortunately, that hasn't proven true. We bought so much Efke, we wore out the machines. They were unwilling to retool. We bought lots of Forte, but developers bought into the company and decided to raze the factory in order to build condos. I hope Ilford continues to make products, but I doubt that much we do will affect the future.
juan

 

[fotch]

The old saying, " if you can't say something nice, don't say anything" may apply. Other than the ownership change, there is nothing to say. Strange form of PR to just drop the subject, unless nothing positive to say?

 

[MattKing]

The publicly filed accounts for Harman have now been updated to December 31, 2014: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/...k1NWFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0

Compared to 2013, sales were down slightly, while profits were up slightly.

Film sales increased, and paper sales continued to decline.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...Film sales increased, and paper sales continued to decline.

The paper sales decrease is specified on Paage 4 as follows:

"Monochrome paper sales still showed a decline across the combined ILFORD and Kentmere ranges at 7.5% (2013: 7.5% decline)."​

A more granular summary appears right after that. It says:

"However, within those volume numbers, there was growth of 0.5% for ILFORD branded paper sales."​

In other words, it's Kentmere paper that's tumbling. Not surprising given the 2013 discontinuation of Fineprint VC FB and, based on Freestyle's "Clearance!" banner, Select VC RC Glossy as well at some point. Let's hope ILFORD branded paper sales continue to increase, even if slowly, so the new owners aren't tempted to discontinue any of them. Although I'm not sure Galerie is safe, since it was a particular favorite of Simon Galley, and the previous board might have kept it going to satisfy him. That's pure speculation, since no individual paper product sales numbers are included in the report.

 

[Xmas]

Unfortunately, that hasn't proven true. We bought so much Efke, we wore out the machines. They were unwilling to retool. We bought lots of Forte, but developers bought into the company and decided to raze the factory in order to build condos. I hope Ilford continues to make products, but I doubt that much we do will affect the future.
juan

The last year I was able to buy Efke film it was so cheap I wondered how they were surviving...
Lots of people were saying it was bad film.
Efke were not able to sell enough. Everyone was buying Kodak...

Retooling needed money bank managers won't lend...

If Eastman Kodak don't have their big studio contracts they will have a big ball wreck their building. It is not stills keeping them coating.

Simon has probably just bought himself a 6S+.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

In other words, it's Kentmere paper that's tumbling.

I was a big fan of Kentmere Bromide. Still have a small amount of grades 2, 3, and 4 in 8x10. But it had a vicious curl right out of the box. And the emulsion was delicate with extended wet times. It would flake off near the edges as water soaked into the base. I always had to leave thicker white borders to allow trimming off the damage after drying.

But it sure did make beautiful selenium-toned prints.

Ken

 

[wblynch]

Evidently buying more of a product won't guarantee it's continued production any more that wearing your lucky jersey on Sunday will help your favorite football team win.

I've tried both to no avail.

 

[johnnywalker]

+1

 

[Drew B.]

As long as I can keep ordering my hp5 sheet film, we can pretend whatever we want...

 

[Lachlan Young]

The paper sales decrease is specified on Paage 4 as follows:

"Monochrome paper sales still showed a decline across the combined ILFORD and Kentmere ranges at 7.5% (2013: 7.5% decline)."​

A more granular summary appears right after that. It says:

"However, within those volume numbers, there was growth of 0.5% for ILFORD branded paper sales."​

In other words, it's Kentmere paper that's tumbling. Not surprising given the 2013 discontinuation of Fineprint VC FB and, based on Freestyle's "Clearance!" banner, Select VC RC Glossy as well at some point. Let's hope ILFORD branded paper sales continue to increase, even if slowly, so the new owners aren't tempted to discontinue any of them. Although I'm not sure Galerie is safe, since it was a particular favorite of Simon Galley, and the previous board might have kept it going to satisfy him. That's pure speculation, since no individual paper product sales numbers are included in the report.

My own experience is that people are using far less RC, & if they do, it's just the regular Ilford MGRC, otherwise it's FB all the way.

Regarding Galerie, I suspect it's probably cheaper to make than MG - fewer emulsions for a start, yet it's priced between Classic & Warmtone

From what I have heard from those with connections to Ilford in the UK, part of the aim with the new plant is to be able to make small runs even more efficiently - in other words, investment to secure diversity of product, just as ADOX are currently doing

 

[Anon Ymous]

My own experience is that people are using far less RC, & if they do, it's just the regular Ilford MGRC, otherwise it's FB all the way.

This is based on observations you've made from people you know, right? In other words, based on your social circle. If so, it's not a valid sample to make assumptions about RC paper sales. IMHO, RC paper sales are far more than fibre based. Just because apug users strongly prefer FB, it doesn't mean that the rest of the world does.

Regarding Galerie, I suspect it's probably cheaper to make than MG - fewer emulsions for a start, yet it's priced between Classic & Warmtone

This is graded paper. How many people do you know that regularly print on graded FB? A small subset of those who print on FB, right? It is largely a matter of economy of scale. The less you sell, the less you must produce, the more expensive it gets to manufacture something. Think about the fixed costs involved in making (and selling) something in any quantity. RA4 paper is even more expensive - complex to produce, but the actual retail price for cut sheets is smaller than that of multigrade BW RC paper.

 

[Lachlan Young]

This is based on observations you've made from people you know, right? In other words, based on your social circle. If so, it's not a valid sample to make assumptions about RC paper sales. IMHO, RC paper sales are far more than fibre based. Just because apug users strongly prefer FB, it doesn't mean that the rest of the world does.



This is graded paper. How many people do you know that regularly print on graded FB? A small subset of those who print on FB, right? It is largely a matter of economy of scale. The less you sell, the less you must produce, the more expensive it gets to manufacture something. Think about the fixed costs involved in making (and selling) something in any quantity. RA4 paper is even more expensive - complex to produce, but the actual retail price for cut sheets is smaller than that of multigrade BW RC paper.

I don't know & don't particularly care about what APUG prints on - my real world observations in Glasgow/ Scotland, are to the effect that IF someone prints on RC, they aren't using anything other than the neutral tone stuff, ie, not MGRC warm or cooltone, ilfospeed graded, portfolio etc. Obviously this is subjective & I make no claims of objective studies.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

My own experience is that people are using far less RC, & if they do, it's just the regular Ilford MGRC, otherwise it's FB all the way...

...my real world observations in Glasgow/ Scotland, are to the effect that IF someone prints on RC, they aren't using anything other than the neutral tone stuff, ie, not MGRC warm or cooltone, ilfospeed graded, portfolio etc...

HARMAN's largest market is the US. Unlike Glasgow/Scotland, much of the US is in an extended drought. That has prompted some changes.

I've previously printed only on FB. Now, as mentioned in this thread from last month

(there was a url link here which no longer exists),​

I have begun to print more and more on RC. And, after testing most of the RC papers HARMAN manufactures, including those you mentioned, the one I'm using exclusively is Multigrade Warmtone RC (MGWTRC).

Vastly reduced water consumption combined with the realization that I'm old and it won't matter if my prints might deteriorate many, many years from now means I can enjoy the look of MGWTRC without guilt or concern. Also, Schoeller is currently limiting FB paper it supplies to HARMAN, ADOX, etc. to one and only one choice. As a result, the surface gloss of everyone's FB products has increased to a point where I don't like it any more. At this point, Pearl-surface MGWTRC simply looks best to me.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Why did posts to this thread stop over 2 weeks ago? I guess if it was locked then this question won't get through.
In fact there has only been one other post mentioning Pemberstone since then which strikes me as odd.

Probably because without facts it was all just ridiculous wishful thinking and moderately relevant predictions of good and bad (including my own). It'll fire up again really big once something really good or bad is reported as a result of the sale.

 

[MattKing]

Probably because without facts it was all just ridiculous wishful thinking and moderately relevant predictions of good and bad (including my own). It'll fire up again really big once something really good or bad is reported as a result of the sale.

If only people approached Kodak with the same mind-set.

 

[RobC]

I think most colleges running photography courses will be using RC paper. And certainly in the UK Ilford is the most readily available paper. Killing RC paper would not be a smart thing to do as students getting into photography will use what they know. Sure they will experiment with other papers but brand loyalty exists even for B+W papers.

And Galerie is a flagship product for exhibition quality prints. I think its safe as most of the other papers will be.

The biggest worry is what the new owners plans are so lets hope they are well intentioned.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...And Galerie is a flagship product for exhibition quality prints. I think its safe as most of the other papers will be...

That's the one I'm less confident about. Simon Galley made no bones that it was his favorite paper, one he used primarily. If sales volume was on the edge, who knows whether the old board of directors (he was one of five members) kept it going just for him. I hope not.

 

[JPR]

I am not big on internet forums, but I just bungled across this news.

Holy S***** is my instinctive reaction. I am sorry, I just don't believe anything a VC company will tell me.

I really had the feeling that Ilford would be the last one standing. Ilford's strength has been its consistent line-up of products.

Just bought some Ilford films yesterday to test with new developer. There is no point now to do this I am thinking.

I will make now ""another"" whisky sour and think about this....

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

I think you are jumping the gun.
Nothing has change apart form who is the the board room now and who owns what.
It is business as usual and the factory is the same as it was yesterday.

The fact is you bought yesterday some Ilford films and can buy today as you will be able to buy tomorrow.
Keep buying according to your needs and the factories will still be here.

 

[pentaxuser]

What we need is another "Simon Galley". OK we will take a while to get used to him or her but he/she will benefit from the warm glow we all got from Simon's words. It is months since I have seen the usual "Go Ilford" phrase on APUG which always seemed to accompany Simon's announcement's which many regarded as similar to FDR's "fireside chats"

OK a few of us Brits had the odd reservation about Ilford's pricing in the U.K. vis a vis the U.S. and may have had a slightly more restrained approach to the company but clearly as a race( human that is) we all need a lot of stroking and currently we are not getting any from Ilford.

So, Ilford, do consider giving us a "replacement Simon" through whom we can feel we own Ilford. If we end up feeling "detached" I cannot predict how serious the consequences will be. Maybe not serious at all but if you look at the cost to benefit return of Simon's former presence here then it seems to me that further "stroking" has almost no downside.

So is there anyone from Ilford out there?

P.S. We have always referred to Harman as Ilford on APUG even after the famous management buy-out post the Ilford collapse. Yet another sign that we need "constancy and familiarity" rather than unpredictable change and unfamiliarity.

I know my wife. She has become familiar to me over many years. She is an anchor I need. Waking up tomorrow to the 1966 version of Raquel Welch is a fantasy scenario that for my sake needs to be confined to my non awakening and functioning hours

Anyone else miss the "Old Days of Ilford fireside chats"

pentaxuser