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runswithsizzers · Jul 6, 2023

A friend who is a photography professor at the local university is suggesting I should take her class on alternate processes this fall. Just for being old, I get to take one class per semester, tuition free, if room permits. She describes the class as being about, "salt printing, cyanotype, Van Dyke brown, palladium printing…pretty stuff like that." Sounds interesting, but after reading this thread, I'm pretty sure I do not have the patience for alternative processes. So maybe I will take her History of Photography class instead.

MattKing · Jul 6, 2023

runswithsizzers said:
A friend who is a photography professor at the local university is suggesting I should take her class on alternate processes this fall. Just for being old, I get to take one class per semester, tuition free, if room permits. She describes the class as being about, "salt printing, cyanotype, Van Dyke brown, palladium printing…pretty stuff like that." Sounds interesting, but after reading this thread, I'm pretty sure I do not have the patience for alternative processes. So maybe I will take her History of Photography class instead.

If you take her processes class, it should add significantly to your appreciation of her History class.
I've only played myself with this stuff. But I really enjoy the work that my friends do with it - sometimes in demonstrations shared with me and others.

A Van Dyke Brown example of my "play" - contacted from a 2.25" x 4.5" film negative:

runswithsizzers · Jul 7, 2023

MattKing said:
If you take her processes class, it should add significantly to your appreciation of her History class.

I think she does try to do some crossover so the history students get to see some of the processes.

koraks · Jul 7, 2023

runswithsizzers said:
after reading this thread, I'm pretty sure I do not have the patience for alternative processes.

Give it a shot. On forums, what tends to get amplified is the technical discussion, and there's lots possible. But printing a passable Van Dyke or Cyanotype really isn't all that difficult and it doesn't take much time.

At some point I did all my B&W contact sheets with Van Dyke because it was quicker than setting up everything for regular silver gelatin. It's also nice to be able to work in somewhat normal lighting conditions.

fgorga · Jul 9, 2023

The weekend's work...

Six untoned salted-paper prints... 4x5 inch digital negatives printed on 6x7.5 inch Hahnemühle Platinum Rag paper. Exposures from 2014 and 2015.

My usual practice is to make small negatives/prints to workout the 'kinks' in an image (mostly the dodgeing and burning). Once everything is 'dialed in', I make a larger negative/print (typically a 6x7.5 inch image on 8x10 inch paper). About 80-90 percent of the time I 'guess' right with the first negative and go directly to the larger negative/print. The rest of the time a second negative usually does the trick; third iterations are very rare.

From around my "neighborhood"...

From a series made one afternoon in Brattleboro, Vermont...

From Star Island, New Hampshire...

The last print illustrates some of the 'fun' of alt process printing!

All six of the prints shown here were made using the same materials in the same session yet the last print shown above (which was made in the middle of the session) is a distinctly different tone. And... I haven't a clue why!!!!

NedL · Jul 9, 2023

fgorga said:
The weekend's work...

Nice! Especially like the last one ( not just for the tone, but I don't know about that either! )

nmp · Jul 10, 2023

fgorga said:
The weekend's work...

Like an assembly line...I wish I was this productive....

fgorga said:
The last print illustrates some of the 'fun' of alt process printing!

All six of the prints shown here were made using the same materials in the same session yet the last print shown above (which was made in the middle of the session) is a distinctly different tone. And... I haven't a clue why!!!!

Looking at all of them, I notice one more anomaly in the last one which may be coincidental but not necessarily correlated - namely it also shows density difference in the border between outside the negative and under the negative which is not seen in any of the other prints. This means the last print also may be tad underexposed and hence slower than the rest. One condition that I can think of that makes the salt process both slower and warmer is when the paper is dried excessively (like bone- dry) after applying silver nitrate compared to simply letting it air dry to touch. I am not suggesting that definitely happened here, but might be a possibility. Could it have been dried more or longer for some reason than the rest?

:Niranjan.

fgorga · Jul 23, 2023

Another batch of salted-paper prints using digital negatives, from exposures made in 2017.

All five negative required a second version to get things to my liking. Two long afternoons worth of work.

These are scans of my 4x5 inch test versions. Larger versions of the three 'non-bird' images have also been printed at 6.5x7 inches on 8x10 inch Revere Platinum paper.

Teacher's Desk, One Room Schoolhouse

'Art' Barn (Star Island, NH)

Barred Owl Brown Pelican

Derelict Truck (detail)

fgorga · Jul 23, 2023

Folks... sorry for the long delay in my reply. I got busy and have not checked this thread since my last post.

NedL said:
Nice! Especially like the last one ( not just for the tone, but I don't know about that either! )

@NedL -- Thanks! The Gosport Chapel is my favorite of this batch. I am toying with the idea of making an 11x14 inch version which is larger than I have ever printed on salted-paper. My standard 'large' print is 6x7.5 inches on 8x10 paper.

nmp said:
Like an assembly line...I wish I was this productive....

Looking at all of them, I notice one more anomaly in the last one which may be coincidental but not necessarily correlated - namely it also shows density difference in the border between outside the negative and under the negative which is not seen in any of the other prints. This means the last print also may be tad underexposed and hence slower than the rest. One condition that I can think of that makes the salt process both slower and warmer is when the paper is dried excessively (like bone- dry) after applying silver nitrate compared to simply letting it air dry to touch. I am not suggesting that definitely happened here, but might be a possibility. Could it have been dried more or longer for some reason than the rest?

:Niranjan.

@nmp --

Niranjan,

I do work sort of like an assembly line!

I coat a batch of paper at the beginning of a session, let it all dry for a minimum of one hour before starting the first print. My thought is that one hour is long enough to get all of the paper to a constant moisture content (i.e. in 'equilibrium' with the fairly constant in humidity in my basement).

I agree that the print in question is underexposed compared to the others. This can be easily seen by examining the difference between papter that is under the negative with what is around the border. The difference in tonality there is distinctly different in the Gosport Chapel image whereas the other images show little difference between similar areas.

However, given that the Gosport Chapel image was printed in the middle of the series (and my batch method of coating/drying paper), I doubt that the moisture content is the culprit.

Additionally all prints were exposed for the same time (7 minutes) and the UV-LED box is on an old Gralab timer. Thus, I don't think that this is a problem UNLESS my light source is varying in intensity over time! There is one possible variable I have not consider before!!!!!!

I think I'll just live with the vagaries of alt process prints as I have no plans to start printing editions of anything!

fgorga · Jul 23, 2023

Rolleiflexible said:
Maybe time for another alt print exchange?

Sanders,

This post did not elicit a response when you first wrote it almost a month ago.

I am certainly ready (and eager) for another round of an alt print exchange! Are you willing to organize this again?

How about other folks... interested?

Regards,

--- Frank

nmp · Jul 24, 2023

fgorga said:
Another batch of salted-paper prints using digital negatives, from exposures made in 2017.

Another nice set!

fgorga said:
Additionally all prints were exposed for the same time (7 minutes) and the UV-LED box is on an old Gralab timer. Thus, I don't think that this is a problem UNLESS my light source is varying in intensity over time! There is one possible variable I have not consider before!!!!!!

By my measurements, UV intensity does vary over time. Generally it goes up initially as the bulbs warm up, followed by a slower drift down as they start getting hotter, finally reaching an equilibrium if there is an exhaust fan that can keep check on the temperature. I let my set of spiral BLB's to warm up for 4 minutes before doing the actual print exposure to account for the initial ramp. I noticed a similar trend with BL tubes. I also almost never do more than one print at a time. With Barinna LED's, the same ones you have, I was not able to do measurements as my sensor is sensitive only (or mostly) to 360nm, with the LED's being close to 400nm. On one of those floodlights with 360nm LED's, the intensity nosedived to almost half the value in a few minutes in absence of any cooling fan. (Needless to say I sent it back to Amazon.) So yes, this could be yet another uncontrollable variable adding to the vagaries of the process.

However, this would still not explain why the middle of the print came out different. May be there was divine intervention...

:Niranjan

Rolleiflexible · Jul 24, 2023

fgorga said:
Sanders,

This post did not elicit a response when you first wrote it almost a month ago.

I am certainly ready (and eager) for another round of an alt print exchange! Are you willing to organize this again?

How about other folks... interested?

Regards,

--- Frank

I am happy to do so. I will post a new thread and see who responds.

Vaughn · Jul 24, 2023

A fun image from early March 2003, twenty years ago. 8x10, platinum/palladium print. Wawona Tunnel, Yosemite National Park.

Taken a bit after mid-night at the opposite end from "Tunnel View". I had a couple cars pass by...in the quiet, I could hear them behind me a couple minutes before they arrived and I would move the camera out of the middle of the road (tripod spots marked). Just took a little patience. The tunnel wasn't going anywhere and the light was not going to change any time soon.

There was a bit of snow outside, and the wet tire tracks add to the composition.

Film might have been Tri-X rated at 200. Exposed for 2 minutes at f45 (300mm lens).
Developed in Rollo Pyro developer in a tray, 20:40:1000, 70F, 12 minutes.
Print coated with a 2/3 palladium to 1/3 platinum mix on COT320 and developed in warm Potassium oxalate.

KYsailor · Jul 25, 2023

Vaughn, that's a very cool image - you must have a lot of patience, 12 minutes....

Found this cyanotype in my "flattening" set up, forgot I had it. Standard Cyanotype, on arches aquarelle (300 lb - yes it is very heavy paper). Acadia National Park, Maine - along the "loop road". On a windy/rainy day, 8X10" - Nikon D300 17-55 . A bit dark, but it was a very gloomy day so it fits. Want to try this as a Kallitype soon.

Dave

fgorga · Jul 25, 2023

Vaughn said:
A fun image from early March 2003, twenty years ago. 8x10, platinum/palladium print. Wawona Tunnel, Yosemite National Park.

Taken a bit after mid-night at the opposite end from "Tunnel View". I had a couple cars pass by...in the quiet, I could hear them behind me a couple minutes before they arrived and I would move the camera out of the middle of the road (tripod spots marked). Just took a little patience. The tunnel wasn't going anywhere and the light was not going to change any time soon.

There was a bit of snow outside, and the wet tire tracks add to the composition.

Film might have been Tri-X rated at 200. Exposed for 2 minutes at f45 (300mm lens).
Developed in Rollo Pyro developer in a tray, 20:40:1000, 70F, 12 minutes.
Print coated with a 2/3 palladium to 1/3 platinum mix on COT320 and developed in warm Potassium oxalate.

Great print... not what comes to mind when I think "Yosemite".

Isn't it amazing that you (we, in general) can remember the circumstances around an exposure made twenty years ago?

Personally, there is no area of my life, other than photography, where I am able to recall such details at such distance.

fgorga · Jul 25, 2023

KYsailor said:
Vaughn, that's a very cool image - you must have a lot of patience, 12 minutes....

Found this cyanotype in my "flattening" set up, forgot I had it. Standard Cyanotype, on arches aquarelle (300 lb - yes it is very heavy paper). Acadia National Park, Maine - along the "loop road". On a windy/rainy day, 8X10" - Nikon D300 17-55 . A bit dark, but it was a very gloomy day so it fits. Want to try this as a Kallitype soon.

Dave

View attachment 344890

Dave,

Nice print!

I think that it will work well in a warm tone... probably better than in Prussian blue.

All of the Maine Coast is wonderful, even Acadia as long as one goes off season!!!

Vaughn · Jul 26, 2023

fgorga said:
Great print... not what comes to mind when I think "Yosemite".

Isn't it amazing that you (we, in general) can remember the circumstances around an exposure made twenty years ago?

Personally, there is no area of my life, other than photography, where I am able to recall such details at such distance.

Thanks. If one spends enough time in Yosemite Valley, one eventually has re-used most of Ansel's tripod holes and starts looking around for something 'different'.

Keeping field notes on every negative helps with the memory...and I find the actual circumtances can stand out over time depending their uniquness and/or importance. The tunnel experience was one of those times, though I did make a 4x5 Type 55 neg and print with the camera set-up further down the tunnel years earlier...so the above image is by no means unique.

Here is another 'remake'. I showed an carbon print earlier in this thread (burnt snag against El Capitan) . It was from about 1995. As I moved up in format, I have enjoyed re-visiting previous images and seeing where I can take them. Doing that along with changing process, here is a recent image. A 5.5x14 negative of a pine and El Capitan from the Merced River bed. Platinum/palladium print.

Taken with 11x14 camera with a modified darkslide to get two 5.5x14 images on one sheet of film. February 2020
Fuji W 360 lens. FP4+ at 100 ASA, f90 at about 2 seconds, developed in Pyrocat HD

Sirius Glass · Jul 26, 2023

Vaughn said:
Thanks. If one spends enough time in Yosemite Valley, one eventually has re-used most of Ansel's tripod holes and starts looking around for something 'different'.

Keeping field notes on every negative helps with the memory...and I find the actual circumtances can stand out over time depending their uniquness and/or importance. The tunnel experience was one of those times, though I did make a 4x5 Type 55 neg and print with the camera set-up further down the tunnel years earlier...so the above image is by no means unique.

Here is another 'remake'. I showed an carbon print earlier in this thread (burnt snag against El Capitan) . It was from about 1995. As I moved up in format, I have enjoyed re-visiting previous images and seeing where I can take them. Doing that along with changing process, here is a recent image. A 5.5x14 negative of a pine and El Capitan from the Merced River bed. Platinum/palladium print.

Taken with 11x14 camera with a modified darkslide to get two 5.5x14 images on one sheet of film. February 2020
Fuji W 360 lens. FP4+ at 100 ASA, f90 at about 2 seconds, developed in Pyrocat HD

The relatively few times that I used Ansel's tripod holes, I then looked around for alternative views and compositions.

Vaughn · Jul 26, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
The relatively few times that I used Ansel's tripod holes, I then looked around for alternative views and compositions.

Photographing in the same area for 40+ years, I do that with my own old tripod holes...

There's a great Randy Newman song ("I'm Dead") where he laments that;

When will I end this bitter game?
When will I end this cruel charade?
Everything I write all sounds the same
Each record that I'm making
Is like a record that I've made
Just not as good

Rolleiflexible · Jul 29, 2023

Here's a kallitype I printed this afternoon. Because it has a naked body in it, I'm attaching it as a thumbnail. I shot the negative in 2007. I don't think I can post this one on Instagram so I uploaded it to the PHOTRIO gallery..

TheFlyingCamera · Jul 31, 2023

Rolleiflexible said:
Here's a kallitype I printed this afternoon. Because it has a naked body in it, I'm attaching it as a thumbnail. I shot the negative in 2007. I don't think I can post this one on Instagram so I uploaded it to the PHOTRIO gallery..

I remember the original of that way back when when you posted it here as a silver print.

fgorga · Jul 31, 2023

Another batch of salted paper prints from this past week...

Digital exposures, digital negatives and untoned prints.

All exposures made on my first (and so far only) trip to southwestern US in 2018.

Sunset Crater Nat. Monument Wupatki Nat. Monument
(near Flagstaff, AZ) (also near Flagstaff, AZ)

Grand Canyon (a side canyon at river level)

Two from Capitol Reef Nat. Park (Utah)

The heat and humidity have broken here in New England (at least for the moment). Thus my need to escape to my basement dim room has diminished... time to get outside and make new photos!

Vaughn · Jul 31, 2023

Looking good, Frank.
The light reflecting adds nicely to the image!

nmp · Jul 31, 2023

Two more salt prints from me too:

Blind Arches and Archway / Jamnagar, India

Way Out / Skyros, Greece

Process still the same - same paper (5"x8" COT 320.)

:Niranjan.

Rolleiflexible · Jul 31, 2023

fgorga said:
The heat and humidity have broken here in New England

Humidity wrecks my workflow. When printing negatives onto Fixxons with my QTR curves, it makes the ink pool in areas of highest loads. But if I run a dehumidifier and drive down RH levels to 50%, I’m back in business.

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