Rolleiflex Hy6...One of the last medium format cameras in production

[Anaxagore]

Anyone using the Variogon Zoom? I don't have an autofocus lens with an aperture ring for my 6008AF and have seen AF Variogons with aperture rings. I wonder if a 'tripod' lens is worthwhile to use autofocus. Would it even be possible to hand-hold that thing?

Yes it is, with the left hand below the lens. The picture I put on the "post your urban landscapes" thread was shot handheld with the AF-Variogon on the Hy6 (ISO200 setting for the digital back); 1/80s at f/5, 60mm focal length. AF quite useless for that kind of shot where focus is close to infinity, but handheld is perfectly possible. Between shots when not using the camera nor lens, I do have to carry it like a baby though, on top of my crossed arms..

Regarding the 1/focal length rule for shutter time, I do have a tendency to ignore it when using the waist-level finder with the camera resting on my belly. There may be a small bit of camera movement but the main problem to me is the lack of autofocus for long lenses. I recently combined the 300mm with the 2x focal multiplier (means f/8 maximum effective aperture) to capture this stork (ISO50 setting, 1/100s, lens set to f/4). The 1/focal length for ISO100 would have meant 1/1200s here. Impossible even with the best light. Focusing the lens, camera handheld, was really the most difficult, and I do not think I got a single picture that was perfectly sharp, but I trade that for the sheer pleasure of having such a lovely bird in the camera...

 

[ic-racer]

Thank you for the comments on the lens.

 

[Anaxagore]

There used to be on the Rollei catalog an adapter for the 6008 to be powered by AA batteries but I never saw it for sale anywhere. It was as elusive as the Masterware kit (that I still regret not buying when it was available on the Adorama website). For the Hy6, I don’t know such an accessory.
I am also frustrated with the Varta V290 and (if I am not mistaken) the Sinar-branded V290 not being available anymore. Nevertheless, there are quite a few compatible batteries that do work well. In addition, DW at the moment can still convert the Sinar / Rollei Hy6 to accept the same batteries as the Leaf Hy6. PhaseOne will probably keep these for a while.
The form factor problem is common to all cameras anyway..

 

[Dave Krueger]

Do you have any financial information or annual reports to indicate that dhw is heading to bankruptcy? On what is this statement based?

It's called DW Photo now. DHW went bankrupt in 2015. Before that, it was Franke & Heidecke which went bankrupt in 2009,

 

[ic-racer]

Guaranteed 20+ year longevity is a mandatory requirement for all purchases above $10K. A 3-lens Hy6 kit is priced as a new car. In fact, your question needs to be turned around: what guarantees can they provide to me that a camera can be operated 20 years from now? I work at a similarly sized business and we get asked a similar question by smart clients all the time. And even though we're not planning to go extinct, we have reasonable answers.

In fact, the battery issue is quite real even if the company doesn't go bankrupt. It is pretty obvious they are not manufacturing it themselves, they're buying from the same supplier that makes them for Sony equipment. When Sony abandons this form factor they will lose the supplier, because nobody will do a production run of a perishable component at such minuscule volume.

I was just as concerned about this in the 1980s when I spent all my money on an SLX system. Turns out I babied the valuable equipment (for example taking my Yashica-124G to Europe, instead of the SLX in 1985, etc) so that when the SLX system became outdated, it was not worn out. I'd prefer to wear out the equipment before having it become obsolete. I hope to make better use of the Hy6 and in expect in 20 years to get something better.

 

[Pieter12]

Not much sophisticated equipment made today is still going to be supported in 20 years. Good luck.

 

[Pieter12]

I would counter that the M-A is basic rather than sophisticated. Well-made, well-designed, but basic nonetheless.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Guaranteed 20+ year longevity is a mandatory requirement for all purchases above $10K.

Funnily, the only things that have a guaranteed 20+ year longevity all cost less than $10k. And most of them are already +20 years old.

 

[Pieter12]

In fact, the battery issue is quite real

Stock up now. The batteries are less than $20 each on eBay.

 

[MattKing]

Maybe you will be lucky like the users of cameras that use a 4LR44 battery. That seems to be the battery of choice now for dog collars - they are everywhere!

 

[Pieter12]

Come on guys, I was expecting a bit of moral support here... It's scary to spend so much on something that can turn into a pumpkin when Sony moves away from these batteries... On the other hand, maybe my fear is a wake-up call I needed: "Old-Gregg, you can't afford it".

I don't think they're Sony batteries. Samsung or copies. Pretty much available right now, but they're cheap and worth stocking up a few.

 

[GG12]

Batteries are the least of your worries.

 

[ic-racer]

I don't think they're Sony batteries. Samsung or copies. Pretty much available right now, but they're cheap and worth stocking up a few.

Thanks for the heads up. I just ordered a few.

 

[Arthurwg]

@Pieter12 Leica M-A is extremely sophisticated. The absence of design bugs means that it doesn't need to be supported in 20 years. But unfortunately you are right, that's not much!

Nothing like a camera that has been "so dramatically reduced to the essentials that it opens up entirely :new creative horizons...." Not even a light meter. Now that's some great copywriting. And all for only $5000.00 w/o lens. I suggest that we go back to the Barnack cameras, perhaps the 0-Series replica. No batteries, no light meter. What could be better than that?

 

[Arthurwg]

And while we're at it, now's your chance to buy a "transparent" one of a kind Rollei 6008i factory prototype, new with box, available on Ebay for $5999.00 or best offer.

 

[Dave Krueger]

This shows the Teflon tape covering the upper roller. This was the only configuration of tape that eliminated the scratch. I don't want to leave the tape on there permanently, as you can see the film passing through is lifting the tape up at the upper corner.

Previous tests by removing and processing the film prior to exposing frame #12 showed the scratch was never on that un-exposed frame. So the scratch must be coming from the upper portion of the Magazine.
View attachment 267458

I have now taped both rollers (one at a time) with the Teflon tape from McMaster, but still have the scratch in both cases. To reiterate, I get the scratch on several (but not every) frame and it is faint -- not easy to spot (at least for me) without a magnifier. The scratch is about 19.5 mm from the edge of the film on the emulsion side. I'll link pictures of the tape and one frame scanned in on my Epson V600 at 4800 dpi. Ignore the dust spots. I rarely use my scanner so it's not the most dust free part of the house. In any case, I'm ruling out the rollers in my case. But, I still haven't identified any other possible cause, but I have lots of tape left...

Links (sorry, they are all large, full size, files).
Top roller
Bottom Roller
Frame with Scratch (marked)

 

[Eric Hiss]

There used to be on the Rollei catalog an adapter for the 6008 to be powered by AA batteries but I never saw it for sale anywhere. It was as elusive as the Masterware kit (that I still regret not buying when it was available on the Adorama website). For the Hy6, I don’t know such an accessory.
I am also frustrated with the Varta V290 and (if I am not mistaken) the Sinar-branded V290 not being available anymore. Nevertheless, there are quite a few compatible batteries that do work well. In addition, DW at the moment can still convert the Sinar / Rollei Hy6 to accept the same batteries as the Leaf Hy6. PhaseOne will probably keep these for a while.
The form factor problem is common to all cameras anyway..

I do not believe it is still possible to have the factory convert your Hy6 from the Sony style battery contacts in the Hy6 to the Samsung (Leaf) style contacts. You can have them convert from Leaf to Rollei/Sinar though. It's an interesting question about longevity of standards. How long was the 5inch floppy? What about the 3.5 inch? Geeze some companies still send software on CD-ROM but most computers don't have a reader for those anymore. Things change fast in tech. But thankfully the Sony/Sinar/Rollei style battery is found in so many applications and lots of the new LED light panels use that same style battery so I believe it will carry forward much longer into the future.

An editorial and catalog photographer using the Hy6 Mod2 had a custom shop make him a corded power supply for the Hy6 Mod2 since he was shooting more than several thousand frames a day and was also powering his digital back from the camera. I have that available for sale. It seems it was made by taking apart a battery housing carefully and removing the insides and soldering in wires to the contacts internally. As far as I know, there was no factory made auxiliary power pack for the Hy6, but they will sometimes do things like that if there are enough requests. For the Hy6 the best batteries in the Sinar/Hy6 style I've tested are the iKan IBS 550 which you can get from B&H. They have higher capacity than the others.

For the 6000 series cameras (and Lens Control S) the power interface unit was available to supply continuous power to the camera from the mains, but many people learned they could make a battery supply for that - and I've seen lots of battery packs made for that including quantum turbo and custom units. I have currently such a used set up with battery pack available but not yet listed. There is also a black battery tube which Rollei made to take small lithium batteries that will plug into the power interface. I believe I have one of these also available in my unlisted items, but I personally find them awkward since the cable isn't that long.

 

[Eric Hiss]

Anyone using the Variogon Zoom? I don't have an autofocus lens with an aperture ring for my 6008AF and have seen AF Variogons with aperture rings. I wonder if a 'tripod' lens is worthwhile to use autofocus. Would it even be possible to hand-hold that thing?

View attachment 273539

I have shot the 60-140 zoom a fair bit both in the field and in the studio. The autofocus is decent considering it has to move a lot of heavy glass. Will be faster with the Hy6 than the 6008AF. Never tried it with film, but only with the AFi-ii 12 (80mp). I can say it's the better or equal to all prime lenses mid range to 140mm. At 100mm it's amazingly sharp. It will write to the EXIF on digital files the approx focal length it was set to on the Hy6. One reason for taking it into the field is that you don't have to change lenses and if you were going to carry three prime lenses to cover that range it's about the same weight or less. I shot hand held with one hand under the lens supporting most of the weight. Have done the same in the studio. Other quirks about the 60-140mm - it will not work with extension rings. The reason I learned that is that the closest focus distance is pretty far out for portraits. It does have a tripod foot, and I would think for most people they will be more comfortable using this on a tripod than hand held. It's really heavy to hand hold for longer periods of time. In the studio I would shoot for a few minutes and then set it on the table. Using this lens hand held is like going to the gym.

There are two older zooms which are significantly lighter, both Schneider. The 75-150PQ and the 140-280 PQ. These lenses have small maximum aperture of f/5.6 and can be hard to focus in dim light. The 140-280 really makes a nice portrait lens and the rendering is old school LF film lens like. Not as sharp as the 60-140, but very nice rendering and a ton easier to carry and hold.

 

[ic-racer]

Eric, thank you for your contributing you knowledge of these lenses to this forum.
The other option for an "all purpose" lens for my 6008AF is an 80mm AF! (see your PM).

 

[Dave Krueger]

I have now taped both rollers (one at a time) with the Teflon tape from McMaster, but still have the scratch in both cases. To reiterate, I get the scratch on several (but not every) frame and it is faint -- not easy to spot (at least for me) without a magnifier. The scratch is about 19.5 mm from the edge of the film on the emulsion side. I'll link pictures of the tape and one frame scanned in on my Epson V600 at 4800 dpi. Ignore the dust spots. I rarely use my scanner so it's not the most dust free part of the house. In any case, I'm ruling out the rollers in my case. But, I still haven't identified any other possible cause, but I have lots of tape left...

Links (sorry, they are all large, full size, files).
Top roller
Bottom Roller
Frame with Scratch (marked)

Welp, in case anyone is still following this scratch issue, I tried something different. I noticed that the film that I shot with the upper roller taped had significantly less of the 19mm scratch than the one with the lower roller taped. So, I went back to my theory that the insert may shift slightly upward inside the clamshell when the film advances. In my imaginary world, that could be the reason for the blue teflon tape over the center feature of the upper end of the clamshell. So, maybe the film is being pushed against the upper edge of the trough during film advance. To test this, I put tape over the upper edge of the trough (picture attached), but did not cover the roller. I can no longer find any trace of 19mm scratch (although I only shot one roll). I think I am just doing a variation on what ic-racer did, but this seems to work a bit better for my film back.

If you guys have already definitively solved this issue, please share. This is the first time I've seen the tape solution work for me, so I'm happy, although this may not be the final answer. I don't see anything on the upper edge of the trough that could cause a scratch and this doesn't explain how the scratch can be happening on the opposite side of of Pieter's film. If I can get past this scratch problem, the light leaks are my only remaining issue and that should be an easy fix.

 

[ic-racer]

Welp, in case anyone is still following this scratch issue...

I'm still following and do still get an occasional scratch, so I'm not done yet with this issue.
I think my drawing below shows the area you covered with the RED arrow. I did not think the film would touch there, but my drawing is not perfect to scale, and as you suggest, the insert does have some 'wiggle room' to move a little.
I'll give that a try (ie covering that area).

 

[Dave Krueger]

I did not think the film would touch there
View attachment 277981

Exactly. We don't suspect damage from geometry that, upon visual inspection, could seemingly never touch the film. I'm still a little skeptical that the scratch is coming from that edge, but I think we're zeroing in on it.

I have to order more film, but my plan is to shrink the taped area down to just the rear edge of the trough and only in the region (maybe 20mm wide) where the scratch is happening. Maybe a little smoothing of that edge is all that will be required as a final answer. Using the Teflon tape was a great idea. Thanks for all your efforts.

 

[Dave Krueger]

Scratch update:

I tried a couple more unsuccessful tape experiments, plus it turns out that the film that I thought had zero 19mm scratches actually had one. Since the scratch is appearing symmetrically on both the right and left sides of the film, the rollers are an obvious suspect, although I see no irregularities on the rollers that seem capable of causing a scratch. Since I get the scratch regardless of which rollers I cover (one at a time), the only way it could be the rollers on my back is if the defect is on both rollers, which is not as unlikely as it seems when you consider that we're seeing the same scratch on three different Hy6 film backs.

This shouldn't be this hard to find. The emulsion side of the film just doesn't come into contact with many surfaces. I haven't tried smoothing the rollers because I am afraid of removing the black coating.

Anyway, my earlier theory that the defect was due to shifting of the insert inside the clamshell has no evidence supporting it. Sorry about the erroneous data. These scratches can be next to impossible to see even with a loupe.

I have more film on the way.

 

[ic-racer]

One slight difference is that in my case the 'line' shows black on my negatives (Ilford HP5) and prints white. Also, when drying the film, and the surface water has evaporated, but the emulsion is still thick, I can see the line in the emulsion.

 

[Dave Krueger]

One slight difference is that in my case the 'line' shows black on my negatives (Ilford HP5) and prints white. Also, when drying the film, and the surface water has evaporated, but the emulsion is still thick, I can see the line in the emulsion.

I have some like that as well. Some of the first rolls I shot after getting the camera were with Ultrafine Xtreme 100. The scratch is black on the negative and white on the scan (see upper left panel of door**).

Also the scratches I've had on TMax 400 were black on the negative and white on the print. I'm assuming they are all caused by the same source because of their horizontal position being almost identical at ~19mm.

[edit] ** Note that the scratch appears in a similar vertical position in every frame (img004 to image010).