Rollei Digibase C-41

[WRSchmalfuss]

The question about diluting of the stabilizer in the RDC41 kit, has not yet been answered. In the original kit included is a 250ml stabilizer, developer, bleacher and fixer for 2x 250ml. This could perhaps lead to misunderstandings.

Therefore, my advice: You can of course do it without the stabilizer bath and watering it like with B&W film with water. Or, to sets the stabilizer instead of 250ml onto 500ml, and double the the retention time of the film in the bath. This information was communicated to me on demand by MACO, Hamburg/Germany.

 

[David_A]

Hello
Digibase C41 question

I use a Jobo ATL 1500 processor. In one drum I'm able to process 6 rolls of 120 at a time in about 650ml of chemistry. Now my question is if i have another 6 rolls to process can i reuse all the chemistry without altering it or adding to it or altering the timing of the process in any way? That's just 1 extra process run with the chemistry, at the moment I just use it as single shot.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

David

 

[steelneck]

Now my working solution is over 7 months old, i did my first film in this soup May 28, two days ago i developed 1 Kodak Ektar and it came out alright. This was the 10th film in the same 1 liter kit i bought.

 

[RobertV]

Any thoughts would be appreciated

You can re-use it or use it as single shot. When using it as single shot you have the max. consistency and you can go to the max. dilution and the minimum volume. In a Jobo 2523 rotation tank for 2x 135-36 or 2x 120 roll film or 1x 220 roll film this means 270 ml. Without any problems you can dilute as 250 ml but add 20 ml-50 ml (water) extra. So for the mini kit this means 4 films only for the one shot method. You can calculate which kit is most convenient then. The times stays exactly the same.

 

[McFortner]

Well, I've finally gotten up the nerve and ordered this kit. I've gotten pretty good with black and white and figured that I'd save money on C-41 with the kit. I ordered some collapsible bottles to keep the chemicals in to minimize oxidation. I'm a little nervous about developing color, but I was that way with black and white at first and I guess I'll get over it with color as well.

One question: If I develop color movie film (ECN-II) with this kit should it be one shot or can I reuse the chemicals?

 

[2F/2F]

AFAIK, ECN-II film processed in C-41 is not archivally sound. Plus you need to deal with the Remjet coating. There are MP labs that will develop the film for you, with a matching print as well.

 

[guyjr]

Finally got a couple of the 1L kits shipped from Freestyle, and unfortunately it looks as though this latest batch still suffers from the "premature leakage" problem. One of the two kits arrived just fine, but the other shows the Part C label almost completely black, with lots of droplets of some unknown chemical leaking inside the plastic wrapper. FS are sending a replacement, but I was really hoping this problem had been addressed, as I'd like to just order 5 or so of these kits at a time so that I'll be good for a year between orders.

 

[McFortner]

Well, my kit got here from Freestyle today, along with 4 accordion bottles, a mixing graduated cylinder, and a stirrer. No leaks in any of the bottles so when I get enough film shot I'll start mixing up the chemicals.

 

[guyjr]

That's good to hear McFortner. I spent some time this afternoon mixing up a batch from the defective kit, and dev'd a 220 roll in my Jobo. It came out looking perfect, and as best as I can tell, the leak came from the bleach bottle, which was practically overfilled when I took the cap off. All the other bottles looked sealed and intact, so I figured it was worth a shot to at least use these chems up for testing while I get used to the new kit.

I'm looking forward to doing a re-use test on a few rolls of film next. I've never done that for color (neg or slide) before (always done small one-shot batches), and would like to extend the life of the chems as much as possible.

 

[EcZc]

Hi.

I've developed hundreds of 5x4 sheets with the Fuji kit and my CPE processor and I finally decided to give the Rolli Maxi kit a try because chemicals can be bought individually which should be more economical.

I've never had any issues with the Fuji chemicals except one cross contamination issue long ago, results are very consistent. I followed the Rolli instructions to the letter and the negs have come out so bad that the 12 sheets I developed are pretty much unusable. Most have streaks/markings and even some colour variances in those marks.

I'm trying to figure out where I have gone wrong. Processing was extremely quick because they seem to omit washes in the instructions. So on my next attempt I'll add them back in. I've also read here to let the negs sit in the stabilizer rather than have the processor agitating. I've attached an (unspotted!) scan of the markings very visible in the sky - anyone any suggestions?

Thanks

 

[mikecnichols]

Hi.

I've developed hundreds of 5x4 sheets with the Fuji kit and my CPE processor and I finally decided to give the Rolli Maxi kit a try because chemicals can be bought individually which should be more economical.

I've never had any issues with the Fuji chemicals except one cross contamination issue long ago, results are very consistent. I followed the Rolli instructions to the letter and the negs have come out so bad that the 12 sheets I developed are pretty much unusable. Most have streaks/markings and even some colour variances in those marks.

I'm trying to figure out where I have gone wrong. Processing was extremely quick because they seem to omit washes in the instructions. So on my next attempt I'll add them back in. I've also read here to let the negs sit in the stabilizer rather than have the processor agitating. I've attached a scan of the markings very visible in the sky - anyone any suggestions?

Thanks

I can't say for the yellow staining, but you are correct in adding washes and the stabilizer. Also, one more thing. Bleach and Fix for 6:30 each. This also helps on making sure there are no artifacts on the negs.

This kit is great IMHO in that of its longevity. I mixed my chemicals back in early September and used them today and got beautiful negs. I can't wait to see enlargements....good luck.

Also, to try and fix the problem on the neg you posted, go back and re-wash. That will help a little. I'm not sure about the staining, but any artifacts or "bubbles" from the stabilizer should disappear.

 

[hrst]

They STILL come with the erroneous instructions? This problem is as old as the kit itself and has been discussed to death. Rollei must be aware of it. It seems they have no intention to fix any of their problems, as the bottles are still leaking, too.

Add the wash between bleach and fix that is omitted in faulty instructions. Several water changes are needed in rotary processing. I simply use four washes 0:30 each.

Final wash before stab/FR must be sufficient, too. I use seven or more washes 0:30 each.

 

[EcZc]

Thanks, I'll have a second attempt with full length bleach, fix and washes as per Fuji instructions - but I'll perhaps try with a blank sheet just in case. Anyone know if these chemicals can be interchanged with the fuji chemicals? I have a spare Fuji Bleach, Fix and stabalizer due to using developer one shot - can these be used with the Rolli developer?

 

[hrst]

Yes you can.

 

[mikecnichols]

I had to rewash a set of negs yesterday. They are much better now.

Before:

After:

 

[guyjr]

As has been posted, the Rollei instructions are wrong... washes are important esp between the bleach / fix. I basically just stuck with the process I used with the Fuji kit and it has worked perfectly with the Rollei kit: 2x30 sec pre-washes at temp, 3:15 color dev, 6:30 bleach, 4x30 sec washes, 6:30 fix, 4x30 sec + 2x1 min washes, then final rinse / stabilizer for 1 min. (in a Jobo CPE2+).

 

[EcZc]

After processing with Fuji instructions I now have 12 sheets of 5x4 film beautifully processed. I think I may well stick with the Fuji kits though, other than perhaps some Rollie individual chemicals should they be needed. Providing incorrect instructions is appalling and I dont get why they dont provide enough stabalizer - I assume you are meant to re-use it rather than mix it fresh each time with the Rollie kit.

 

[pentaxuser]

It would seem that the C41 stabiliser used while the film is still on the reel doesn't give the same problems of stickiness on the reel that wetting agent/photo-flo gives as has been reported here and i have experienced.

Is this correct? Otherwise it means either removing the film from the reel to immerse in the stabiliser or scrubbing the reel thoroughly each time.

Thanks

 

[guyjr]

It would seem that the C41 stabiliser used while the film is still on the reel doesn't give the same problems of stickiness on the reel that wetting agent/photo-flo gives as has been reported here and i have experienced.

Is this correct? Otherwise it means either removing the film from the reel to immerse in the stabiliser or scrubbing the reel thoroughly each time.

Thanks

I have a little confession to make - I never take my films off the reel during the last stabilizer / rinse aid step. All I do is take the Jobo tank off the motor, and manually rotate for 1 minute, then drain / remove film / hang to dry. Afterwards I do thoroughly wash the tank, reels, core, and lid in lukewarm water, then set out to dry. Following these steps I haven't run into any issues in any of my processes (I do all three - C-41, E-6, and B&W).

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks for the answer but I was hoping to avoid scrubbing the reel each time. So can anyone say whether the stabiliser leaves exactly the same kind of residue on the reels as does wetting agent such as Photo-flo?

I have the midi kit with a 50ml bottle of stabiliser which makes up 2 x 250mls of working solution. If no residue is left on the reels then the obvious method is rotary processing with 140mls for 1x35mm or 240mls for 1 or 2x120. However Sebastian who makes the stuff says that stabiliser should be used without agitation so for 1x35mm the alternative is 250mls and simply pouring it into the tank and letting the film sit. Likewise for a 120 film, you'd make up the full 500mls and do likewise.

If residue is left on the reel then you could split the Jobo reel and let the film drop into the tank minus the reels.

So a solution of a kind is possible, at least with the midi-kit but possibly not the mini-kit - not enough working solution for a 120 film.

What wouldn't appear to be possible is my current method of using a bigger container(small ice cream carton) and dropping the film into that unless I get a bigger amount of stabiliser.

Stop between Dev and Bleach: There was apparently a comment by PE to the effect that Bleach is sufficiently acidic to act as an effective stop so a stopbath isn't needed. On the other hand someone made the point that dev carry-over into bleach shortens the life of the bleach so it sounds sensible to use a stop between dev and bleach.

Anyone tried both methods of dev then bleach and dev, stop then bleach and what are your findings?

Extending dev times: It sounds from users' experience that on balance there is no need to do this, contrary to what Kodak, Fuji and Tetenal say about their kits. Some users seem to have found no adverse consequences from sticking to the standard times throughout the dev's life but others have extended times. Was this because they began to notice underdevelopment or just to be on the safeside?

Finally does anyone know why 49C was chosen as the starting temp for mixing solutions? As the parts are already liquids and not powder, I cannot think that such a high temp is required to get the parts to mix and they don't need to be dissolved. Indeed if you simply wanted to mix the parts one night to save time when you processed the next night is there any reason why the parts can't be mixed at room temp, especially as the kit maker claims that processing is possible at room temp of 20C?

The consensus certainly seems to be that this kit is a welcome addition for the small volume user so finally on a lighter note and addressed to hrst: Have you been tempted to give Digibase C41 a try and if so what have been you findings?


Thanks all

pentaxuser

 

[mablo]

I bought the 10 roll, 500ml kit. I developed my first rolls on the other day. I must say that using the stabiliser without agitation is pretty hard to do when you only have 250ml of liquid and you are using a normal 500ml tank... I didn't notice any residue but if I were using plastic reels I would still scrub them after each use. I didn't use stop and washed after bleach and fixer as described here. My initial result were very encouraging.

 

[Diapositivo]

I find a bad idea to make the final bath inside the tank. You can brush the reels, but you cannot brush the water ducts inside the tank cover, the funnel etc.
I make a very prolonged final bath with the tank on the "lift" (12 or 16 times 250ml for 30") so as to wash from chemicals the tank and the lift internal ducts.
Then I open the tank and put the reel+film into final bath.
I normally wash the reels with warm water. Occasionally I brush them with toothbrush and soap. It's not necessary to do it every time. You can also be lazy and wash the reels once in a while with a more energetic method (such as dishwasher, household bleach etc.). This thing of chemical building over reels is greatly exaggerated a problem.

I make the final bath in a cylindric fridge glass container for food (Bormioli Frigoverre) with a diameter of 15cm and a height of 7 cm. That's just perfect for 135, you need a taller one for 120. The bottom is flat. The lid is water-tight so you can keep it covered without risk of spilling it in your darkroom by mistake.
I would avoid "tupperware-like" stuff to avoid chemical substances sticking to plastic.

The final bath can be reused several times. I change it only when I see some dirt (dust, hair, dandruff) on it, e.g. every 5 or 6 rolls. So you can prepare enough a quantity to cover the film without any need of agitation.

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks, diapositivo for the one answer so far to one part of my post. I'd appreciate other contributions as well to the stabiliser and reels question and the other questions. Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[mikecnichols]

Question....I'm about to make a new batch of chems. I have a few storage containers for my used chems, but they currently have RA4 chems. Number one, can you mix RA4 and C41 chemicals? Number two, I remember reading somewhere that you can combine two of the chemicals (I think Developer and bleach) and make it safe to pour down the drain.

Can anyone help me with this information?

 

[dbla]

So what was the consensus? Can we reuse the working solution? Once we're done with the run, can we remix it into the leftover working solution?? How many batches should I do and still consider it consistent? I do processing for a photographer here and one-shotting it basically gets me maybe 6-10 runs (on the BIG kit) before my chemicals are done... I'm doing 4x5 and 120 primarily... in a Jobo.