Polaroid Pro Palette 8000 experience?

[Jimmy38]

Hi there,

I come up with some new investigations about the way propalette 8000 communicate with computer.
My usual PC driver is dead so I am currently building a new one. Unfortunately it has no 50pin female plug at its back but only a LTP1 female plug. I own the SCSI-LTP1 suitable cable although PP8000 appears offline in rasperplus. Do you have any idea how to solve this ? My best to you all !

 

[koraks]

SCSI and LPT (really parallel printer port) are entirely different animals. I don't think there was a parallel to SCSI adapter back in the day when this machine was made. There were, however, plenty SCSI devices and host adapters with a 25 pin connector that's exactly the same as a computer parallel port, but they're totally different interfaces. A SCSI device like the ProPalette will not "talk to" a computer over a parallel printer interface unless it was explicitly meant to, i.e. it had to have a second interface that was not SCSI and this would be a physically separate connector on the ProPalette. I don't think it was made this way.
You need a machine with a SCSI interface that's compatible with the ProPalette as well as its software. They're probably around in old junk boxes somewhere. Maybe ebay?

 

[clift_d]

The ProPalette does have a Printer Port (see attached image), which looks like it could be a 36 PIN mini-Centronics connector, although don't hold me to that. If you can only interface with your PC through its LPT1 socket then you will need to find an adaptor cable to go that. You should also be aware that outputting to the PP8K via a Parallel connector is likely to be slower than SCSI, so in the end it might be easier to find either a compatible SCSI card for your 'new' computer, or another old PC with SCSI already fitted.

Some added info on SCSI adaptors translated from the poladigital.co.jp website which might be helpful in the hunt for one:

[SCSI boards whose operation has been confirmed]
Adaptec ULTRA SCSI CARD 2940AU standard PCI bus
Adaptec ULTRA SCSI CARD 2930U standard PCI bus
Adaptec ULTRA SCSI CARD 2930LP Standard PCI and Low Profile PCI Bus

[About ASPI Layer]
RasterPlus v.5.2.3E in an environment with the above confirmed SCSI board added
If you use the interface program provided by Adaptec
You need to install (or update) the ASPI Layer.
ASPI Layer is included in RasterPlus v.5.2.3E.

 

[koraks]

The ProPalette does have a Printer Port

You're right, my apologies. It's also mentioned in the repair manual:

ProPalette 8000 has four ports (Figure 1-2):
· Centronics parallel
· Synchronization IEEE 1284 style (supporting firmware not available on early units)
· SCSI-1
· RJ-11 serial (available to service personnel only)

However, the device likely requires bidirectional communications, and this was temperamental in 1990s PC's (I worked a lot with parallel-connected scanners in those days). Much of the time it worked, some of the time, it didn't. If memory serves, there was often (from the late 1990s onward) a BIOS setting that allowed the parallel port integrated into a mainboard to be used for bidirectional communication. @Jimmy38 you may want to play with the BIOS settings associated with the parallel port a bit and see what that gives you.

 

[Jimmy38]

Many thanks @clift_d and @koraks pour your tips and explanations. I am not at ease with BIOS things so I finally took the option of ordering some SCSI PCI card. I am looking forward to collecting and setting up the stuff. to be continued...

On the other hand I already noticed that the version of RP95 I installed on the "new" PC has a film tables list which is quite shorter than my original dead PC. I don't know where the previous owner get his files... The worst issue is that my favorite "panther pro" color profile is missing. Any idea where I could find it back ? Could anyone here provide some standard film tables (including panther pro, of course ) !??

Thx ++

 

[clift_d]

I think I've seen a Panther film table somewhere - I'll have a dig around to see if I can find it.

If you need to install ASPI (?) for your SCSI card, you can find the Adaptec ASPI installer on Phil Pemberton's website here:
https://www.philpem.me.uk/code/filmrec/winxpinstall

 

[clift_d]

@Jimmy38 - I've pulled together the various ProPalette 80xx film tables tha I can find into a Zip archive at the following link. I think there's a bit of duplication in there, but there are at least some 'Panther' profiles in various film formats, as requested:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/m7xgdna4gy9zdmf/PP8K_COMBINED_TABLES.zip/file

Hopefully the above contains what you're looking for. If you need to use these film tables with Rasterplus on the Macintosh, then you'll need to change the Type & Creator codes of the individual film table files with ResEdit as follows:

Type 'TEXT' -> 'CFFT'
Creator 'dosa' -> 'NPoL'

 

[Jimmy38]

Many thanks for your help @clift_d ! I already downloaded the tables file and I did see it contains the "Panther" one. It is a .FLM format such as the one already set into RP95 so it seems to be ok.
You invited to change the Type and Creator codes in case I work on Macintosh though I work on Windows for Propalette matters. Should I still need to change anything then ?
I am grateful for having this Panther profile back. Do you have any idea why this "Panther" profile is not inside the native RP95 settings ? Any idea of the way I came up, one day, as complementary elements ?

 

[clift_d]

There’s no need to change the Type/Creator code of the film tables if you’re working on an PC - that’s only a Macintosh thing. My understanding is that the extra profiles were distributed in updates to the original Rasterplus / Polaroid package, presumably as a result of customer requests.

 

[Jimmy38]

Well... It seems I'm not out of the woods yet. The PP8K is now showing me an error message:
"SWERR:icoh.cpp,563:expected perf lo aft" (see attachment)
SWERR stands for "SoftWare ERRor", which is relatively good news.
Which software is it? RP95 or the PP8K's internal software? I did not find any info so far about this error.
For the record, my PP8K's internal software version is v566. What is yours ? Should I upgrade?
Any advice or ideas are welcome. Thanks to one and all !

 

[clift_d]

The fact that your PP8K was working before your old PC stopped working suggests to me that it's probably some form of computer hardware / software problem with the new PC, and that you should be looking there first.

In any case, I would think REALLY carefully before you consider updating the firmware on your PP8K. Assuming you can find a viable firmware file, which will not be easy, there is still a risk of rendering your PP8K inoperable, and there isn't anywhere that you'd be able to get it serviced.

 

[Jimmy38]

That advice is definitely wise a wise one... thanks a lot @clift_d.

 

[Jimmy38]

Dear all and each,

After a while of fighting in order to get my propalette 8000 working, I guess I am getting resigned... I assume the lightning crashed my recorder additionnally to my PC....

 

[clift_d]

Ouch - you didn't mention that it was as a result of a lightning strike. Only thing I can think is whether you know anyone with an old Mac that you could try it with?

 

[Jimmy38]

Unfortunately I don't know anyone who own an old Mac, close or far...
My message (as yours) was partially erased by the moderator. it seems I have to pay.
Do you know how we can send personal emails ?

 

[clift_d]

You can send private messages to other users by starting a Conversation with them ... just click on their user name and you should see an option for this.

 

[koraks]

My message (as yours) was partially erased by the moderator. it seems I have to pay.

It's not so much about the payment, but to prevent this thread from clogging up with 'want to buy' posts instead of relevant technical discussion. It happened in the past, then happened again, and currently we intervene pretty consistently on it because this particular thread seems to be a magnet for this.

 

[MattKing]

Do you know how we can send personal emails ?

As a low count poster, the Conversation function has not yet been enabled for you - but us moderators can turn it on manually, if you request.
I'll take your post as a request, and attend to it.

 

[koraks]

As a low count poster, the Conversation function has not yet been enabled for you - but us moderators can turn it on manually, if you request.
I'll take your post as a request, and attend to it.

Matt, I checked when I posted earlier; it was already enabled then.

Sorry about the offtopic! Please carry on.

 

[jjstaus]

I believe Ratoc, Adaptec and Belkin made USB-SCSI or Firewire-SCSI adapters which you might want to try, but unfortunately I don't have any information to be able to say whether they would definitely work with your setup. They are also no longer available new and so you'll need to be able to find a working example second hand.

I've managed to get my 8000 working with a Wall Street Powerbook G3, which is one of the last models with built-in SCSI, and which gives me a nice compact setup, but I still haven't managed to resolve the issue of connecting this standalone setup to other newer computers - I'm currently having to burn CD-ROMS to transfer files and this is something that I don't want to continue.

In my opinion your best bet would probably be to see if you can find a late beige PowerMac with built in SCSI, such as a Power Macintosh G3 Desktop, put a PCI firewire card in to enable easier file transfers from your other computers, and run System 9.2.2 and the Polaroid RasterPlus package on it.

I wouldn't bother with trying to run it via the parallel port on a Windows machine as it will be much slower, and bear in mind that you're already probably going to be taking 3 - 5 minutes per frame with a SCSI setup. Also, you really need to using a Windows 95 machine to properly run the RasterPlus RP95 software available from Phil Pemberton's website, and that is likely to be much more painful than MacOS 9.2.2.

Let us know how you get on.

I have a working HR6000. I use Polaroid SuperRip software and a parallel printer cable (not SCSI). It takes 15 minutes per frame. but works well for My 3D views. I am looking for better (newer) software to use a newer filmback. Running win 98.

 

[clift_d]

I have a working HR6000. I use Polaroid SuperRip software and a parallel printer cable (not SCSI). It takes 15 minutes per frame. but works well for My 3D views. I am looking for better (newer) software to use a newer filmback. Running win 98.

Welcome on board.

Phil Pemberton has the Windows Rasterplus95 software on his website here:

Polaroid Digital Palette film recorder

Polaroid Digital Palette film recorder Introduction In July 2012, I picked up a Polaroid HR-6000 “Digital Palette” film recorder, complete with a copy of the RasterPlus 95 software (version 1.0), the 35mm standard camera back and a Polaroid pack-film camera back. Unfortunately RP95 doesn't...

www.philpem.me.uk

My understanding is that he managed to get this working for his HR-6000 over SCSI on Windows XP, so I'm guessing that it's probable that it will also work on Windows 98 over LPT1. Phil also has available PDF copies of some of the manuals for the HR-6000 , in case you're missing any of them.

Could you maybe share some details about the kind of images you're outputting, and the which type of film you're using with what film table?

 

[jjstaus]

I have a Dell GX270 (circa 1995) running win 98. My old software WILL NOT run on XP, It gives an error when attempted. Software is “Polaroid Palette for win 95 Ver. 1.2.0”, Driver Ver. 4.01.1025 , Zenographics 1990-1996, R E Romney.

I use Ekta Elete 100 film in the HR6000 with a V1 (Bare Bones) camera back. Printer set to “ISO 200 Generic“ Printer setup displays “4K resolution”. With 4096 x 2730 pixels.

The film table has only 32 types of film. I am not sure what table is used because “ISO 200 Generic” is not listed.

At any rate, to the untrained eye (mine) the Quality is comparable to a standard 35 mm film camera.

I mount in Stereo Pairs and view in “Steal the Light” viewers with excellent results. Subjects are family & friends, Houston Art Car Parade and landscapes, even Some of Mars (courtesy of NASA).

 

[jjstaus]

Forgot to mention - I do use the LPT port, haven't tried the SCSI, Just used the cable from the older CI5000.

 

[pyr]

Hello all,

After almost 30 years, are Palette 8000 recorders still reliable ?

Former messages talk of burnt CRTs..

Have you noticed other hardware issues ?

In other words and considering the lack of spare parts and service, do you think it is a good idea to buy one now and how much would you pay for it ?

I live in France. Many thanks

 

[koraks]

AFAIK it's still pretty much the only realistic way at present to output digital files to camera (color) film that's sort of within reach of small-scale users and amateurs. I think that makes all other considerations pretty much moot - although they can be a cause of concern.
As to burnt CRT's - I'm sure some kind of CRT must have burned out somewhere, sometime. But as electronics go, CRT's are pretty robust. Common failures around CRT's are the high-voltage circuitry, in particular deflection transformers. Those are/were notorious failure items on e.g. computer monitors.