Phoenix II - released 2025-07-16 - speculation and hints during the lead up

[Agulliver]

The page is accessible again and there's an update to Harman Photo's facebook and insta feed.

I've ordered a couple of rolls in 120 as I'm low on 120 colour film.

 

[foc]

Here is a screen shot from Analogue World and the Phoenix I, Redscale & Phoenix II

Full details here.

 

[albireo]

Data: Harman Photo, as quoted by youtube.com/watch?v=0gaXVVU6Yyw

 

[BrianShaw]

Full details here.

The AnalogueWorld characterization the differences between Phoenix and Phonix II as "subtle" seems quite an understatement. The differences, to my eye, are rather profound and a truly significant improvement, making the product much more attractive to me. Can't wait to put Phoenix II through my cameras!

 

[thinkbrown]

The AnalogueWorld characterization the differences between Phoenix and Phonix II as "subtle" seems quite an understatement. The differences, to my eye, are rather profound and a truly significant improvement, making the product much more attractive to me. Can't wait to put Phoenix II through my cameras!

It does feel like a lot of initial reviews are purposefully trying to temper expectations, presumably because some small portion of the community is going to be vocally outraged that Harman didn't manage to go from Phoenix to Ektar in 18 months.

Personally, I'm thrilled with what I'm seeing. Looks like a finer grained, better latitude Phoenix, with somewhat improved colors. Can't wait to buy some

 

[brbo]

For the lovers of original Phoenix, get it while you still can. It won't be produced anymore.

 

[warden]

Data: Harman Photo, as quoted by youtube.com/watch?v=0gaXVVU6Yyw

Very cool. This is the kind of company I like to support.

 

[Agulliver]

It does look like a significant step. And yes, I am sure there will be some people who are shouting because Harman didn't go from OG Phoenix to an Ektar beater in 18 months. One retailer of note is refusing to stock it because they can't scan Phoenix with their minilab....which I kind of understand as my own preferred lab hates the stuff too. But ultimately most places will carry it and it'll probably sell like hotcakes.

 

[ChrisGalway]

I understand that doing the orange mask properly (see Post 104, point 3) is not trivial, but why is an anti-halation layer so difficult? Obviously it is (unless Harman are being perverse and believe that halos will sell more films).

 

[koraks]

Data: Harman Photo

Here's the rest of the datasheet; unfortunately, they have not included HD plots this time, making comparisons with original Phoenix difficult. I don't quite get this omission.

https://www.harmanphoto.co.uk/amfile/file/download/file/1968/product/2208/?___store=harman_photo_brochure&___from_store=harman_photo_uk

One thing that caught my eye is the bit about flatbed scanning; compare the text for original Phoenix to that of Phoenix II:

Epson V850 & Epson flatbed scanners
Use full autoexposure and auto colour.

(Original Phoenix)

Epson flatbed scanners
Use full autoexposure and auto colour.
Alternatively, we can recommend scanning as reversal (slide) film and inverting in software such as Negative
lab pro or Adobe photoshop. This will generally achieve the best results possible and give maximum control.

(Phoenix II)

Note the added info on scanning as positive before doing the inversions. Seems like the Harman people have been reading about how people in practice deal with their film and are incorporating this into their product information.

 

[pentaxuser]

It does look like a significant step. And yes, I am sure there will be some people who are shouting because Harman didn't go from OG Phoenix to an Ektar beater in 18 months. One retailer of note is refusing to stock it because they can't scan Phoenix with their minilab....

Of the 3 videos on it I have seen so far one person had the Harman Lab do the scanning and printing so did not have a lot to say about improvement in scanning but the other 2 were positive about any lab's ability to scan Phoenix II decently

Maybe the lab was referring to not stocking Phoenix 1 and if it was referring to Phoenix II might well change its mind

pentaxuser

 

[GabrielC]

I think it went from really funky (too much) to looking useable, albeit limited.
The first phoenix you figured something was wrong with your film, with this one it juste looks like a bad CN film, which is quite a step up. I even see that contrary to Phoenix 1, Phoenix 2 portrait and landscapes can look really good.
I do wonder what they can achieve for the next iteration, but for now I'll try and find some to shoot myself.
Frankly, with lucky and phoenix 2 appearing now, it looks like a new era for colour is ushering.

 

[blee1996]

When I first got Phoenix I, I was not impressed. But 10+ rolls later and via adjusting ISO, Tweaking Negative Labs Pro, now I really like it and can get consistent results. It is not 100% fidelity to the original color, but its character is uniquely suitable for certain use cases.

I look forward to using Phoenix II myself, and see if my experience with Phoenix I will get me to a better starting point.

The influencers need to push out content quickly, and many do not have the patience to fine-tune a particular emulsion or process. I wouldn't put too much stocks in early influencer's results. It is the real long-term users like us who can actually judge and truly appreciate unique emulsions.

 

[BrianShaw]

Hopefully, Photrio member will be amongst those “influencers “. The photos in the various seller sites seem uncredited. I wonder if they were provided by Harman or from a more local source.

 

[Agulliver]

Of the 3 videos on it I have seen so far one person had the Harman Lab do the scanning and printing so did not have a lot to say about improvement in scanning but the other 2 were positive about any lab's ability to scan Phoenix II decently

Maybe the lab was referring to not stocking Phoenix 1 and if it was referring to Phoenix II might well change its mind

pentaxuser

I'm not going to name them (it's probably easy enough to find out) but one well known UK retailer who also operates a lab stocked Phoenix I and is holding off stocking Phoenix II because of the difficulties they had scanning I. And they, like my local lab, found the advice offered by Harman didn't help.

I thought Phoenix I was an amazing product given Harman's lack of experience with colour film. It is certainly a quirky, unique film. I've got some decent shots out of it which I really like and I'll be trying Phoenix II. I will, of course, report how my local lab gets on with it.

 

[Agulliver]

When I first got Phoenix I, I was not impressed. But 10+ rolls later and via adjusting ISO, Tweaking Negative Labs Pro, now I really like it and can get consistent results. It is not 100% fidelity to the original color, but its character is uniquely suitable for certain use cases.

I look forward to using Phoenix II myself, and see if my experience with Phoenix I will get me to a better starting point.

The influencers need to push out content quickly, and many do not have the patience to fine-tune a particular emulsion or process. I wouldn't put too much stocks in early influencer's results. It is the real long-term users like us who can actually judge and truly appreciate unique emulsions.

I agree, some posts from influencers likely won't show Phoenix II at it's best because it'll be people who have got their dev and scanning done quickly. Though those who went on the Berlin photo walk at the weekend and who were given some even earlier will have had time to tweak it more. Lina Bessonova was part of a group that had a tour of the Harman factory and were given some Phoenix II to shoot.

It definitely looks much closer to "normal" C41 film than Phoenix I was, which is something Lina Bessonova has said too. She's one of the photographers that I trust.

 

[BHuij]

I stopped by the FIND lab this morning. My timing was good - the delivery guy brought their big old box of Phoenix II in about 3 minutes after I walked in. So I got to buy their first roll of 135 and of 120.

The 135 unexposed/unprocessed film looks indistinguishable from Phoenix I to me. Same yellow/mustard-colored base. But the FIND lab guy said in their testing that it's giving them a stop or two better dynamic range, and far better color balance. Seems in line with the things I've heard. I'm not particularly interested in participating in the race to produce content and reactions about it, but I'll shoot it over the next week or three, develop at home with my ECN-2 stuff, and scan with my CoolScan 4000 and NLP. I'll try to remember to post some results here if they seem relevant At this time my plan is to shoot it at EI 125. Depending on how it comes out, I may adjust that for when I shoot my roll of 120.

 

[Agulliver]

That's interesting, the only other photo I saw purporting to be a roll of Phoenix II didn't have that "mustard" colour.

 

[MattKing]

Thread title updated.
And courtesy of an email from Harman, here is the Phoenix page on their website - which may vary depending on where you are:
https://www.harmanphoto.co.uk/harma...1Ifh3tUxLrJa8KLtZ5NWGHpbw6PB0SJiCuLfzI.SwSfzY

 

[Samu]

I just ordered a bunch of Ektar, with also two rolls of Phoenix II. Interesting, how the film will print, as RA-4 printing of the first version was very tricky. Before testing, I find it a bit disappointing that the issue with the lacking orange backing has not been resolved. I was kind of expecting this version were with standard orange base. I´ll try this film out, and will post some prints here, when I have made the prints.

 

[dcy]

Perhaps I'm old fashioned as I learned photography when film was all there was, why would I want a film that is only red?

What can I say? People are weird. I hear some people even shoot film that can't even render color at all!

More seriously though. I think people shoot redscale because it's fun. In the digital era, it's hard for film to compete in terms of pure picture quality. I think it makes sense that you see proportionally more film that intentionally leans on the funky side. I don't shoot a lot of redscale film, but I did buy 4 rolls of Harman Red.

Truth be told, redscale isn't the lowest-picture-quality thing I do with film. I also dabble in cyanotype. Now what's the point of making a print that is all blue, blotchy, and has awful resolution and tonal range? I'm not sure, but somehow I enjoy it.

 

[mshchem]

I just ordered a bunch of Ektar, with also two rolls of Phoenix II. Interesting, how the film will print, as RA-4 printing of the first version was very tricky. Before testing, I find it a bit disappointing that the issue with the lacking orange backing has not been resolved. I was kind of expecting this version were with standard orange base. I´ll try this film out, and will post some prints here, when I have made the prints.

I just ordered the same. 5 rolls Ektar, 3 rolls of Phoenix II, in 120. I really appreciate what Harman is doing. I'm still pretty attached to EK films, still I bought a dozen rolls of Kentmere 200. It's all fun.

 

[pbromaghin]

120 at B&H $11.99. Cheaper than PanF, Delta400, SFX, Red, Delta3200 and Ortho. Not bad!

 

[dcy]

Just ordered four rolls in 135. Two for me, two for the wife. I'm accumulating too much color film. I need to shoot some of that.

 

[Craig]

From the Harman email this morning, it looks much closer to a film with accurate colour. Some of the sample images were places I'm quite familiar with.