Phoenix II - released 2025-07-16 - speculation and hints during the lead up

[kori]

I do appreciate the work Harman is doing, but at present, this product is still more like a curiosity than a film you qould really kike to use for great results. The lack of orange backing will make it tricky to pair with an enlarger and RA4 paper. The lack of antihalation layer is also a problem. I ordered two rolls because I want to try this, but it is unlikely I would biy more of this product. I am not interested in scanning film, neither will I take my films anywhere to be scanned. If you can´t print it, the product has not much value for me. But I do understand you don´t make a perfect color film from scratch. I still hope Harman will make a color film, which is up to the standards set by Kodak and Fuji after some years. This includes orange base and a working antihalation layer. We are after all talking about a company making some of the best black & white films and papers in the market - not a company selling cheap-o stuff with inflated prices to ignorant teenage hipsters. So, I do assume the aim is to make a product that could compete with Kodak in terms of quality. But it will take some time.

Yes. I agree with you.

 

[albireo]

And as for the boomers, surely the way to deal with the narrow-minded is to widen their knowledge as well, rather than referring to them with disdain.

Of course Matt, I agree - and yet, I believe there is an appreciable difference between sincere, unprovoked bigotry and 'response' bigotry. To get a message across, sometimes, I like to jump in the pit and use a language that will ring familiar to these people.

How do you English speakers say? 'A taste of your own medicine'?

 

[pentaxuser]

I found the first version of Phoenix surprisingly easy to print in the darkroom.

I think this is the first time I have heard this said, Steve Can I ask how authentic the colours looked? Better still can you show us examples of prints?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Milpool]

I’m not a hipster or a boomer but this entire saga is ridiculous.

 

[thinkbrown]

I’m not a hipster or a boomer but this entire saga is ridiculous.

Seriously. The rate that folks on this forum devolve into name-calling is kind of depressing

 

[Milpool]

Seriously. The rate that folks on this forum devolve into name-calling is kind of depressing

I was referring to the Phoenix product/project and associated consumer behaviour, but point taken.

 

[thinkbrown]

I was referring to the Phoenix product/project and associated consumer behaviour, but point taken.

Harman is doing a great job developing a new color film from scratch. It seems like given current trends they've decided they need to have a color offering and it's good to see them making steady progress there, especially given the complexity of a color emulsion

As far as personal opinion goes, I've really enjoyed shooting Phoenix and have taken some photos I really like. It's incredible to me that we still have as much choice in film as we do, given how niche a product it is at this point

 

[mshchem]

Niche is exactly where Harman wants to be.

Enthusiast driven sales. I bought a few rolls.

 

[0x001688936CA08]

I was referring to the Phoenix product/project and associated consumer behaviour, but point taken.

What is so ridiculous about it these things?

Harman making colour film is good, they seem to be making excellent progress. And people are buying it, is this not the kind of consumer behaviour that Harman and the broader film market would want?

 

[warden]

What is so ridiculous about it these things?

Harman making colour film is good, they seem to be making excellent progress. And people are buying it, is this not the kind of consumer behaviour that Harman and the broader film market would want?

I agree with @0x001688936CA08227494hhdHHgsor_00. This is a good thing from Harman, full stop.

 

[MattKing]

I agree with @0x001688936CA08227494hhdHHgsor_00. This is a good thing from Harman, full stop.

FWIW, I'm not too upset about people not liking how things are marketed.
For us tending-towards-older folks, life seemed more fun and exciting when we were the target demographic for ads for photographic stuff.
Now we seem to be the target demographic for ads for funerals, seniors' life insurance and other products directed toward health conditions that are just too embarrassing to post about.

 

[thinkbrown]

FWIW, I'm not too upset about people not liking how things are marketed.
For us tending-towards-older folks, life seemed more fun and exciting when we were the target demographic for ads for photographic stuff.
Now we seem to be the target demographic for ads for funerals, seniors' life insurance and other products directed toward health conditions that are just too embarrassing to post about.

If it makes you feel any better I'm pretty sure my film habit has made me a prime target for AARP ads, and I'm a couple decades away from that

 

[dcy]

I agree Just a pity that Harman does not. Perhaps it feels its future lies with the influencers. We live in an era where you are either "Quick or Dead " to cannibalise Norman's book title

I don't think it has much to do with influencers or "quick or dead". Perhaps it does. But I would posit that for any hobby to survive, it has to bring in new members to replace the ones that pass or exit the hobby. I discovered the name "Harman" through YouTube. I do not watch TV. I red newspapers but I haven't seen Harman advertising in the NYT. I use and ad blocker on most websites. The only ways for me to have discovered Harman would be either by watching a YouTube that I follow talk about it, or through word of mouth.