Large Format X-Ray Photo

[Ryan Oliveira]

Thanks Bronson !
I was thinking about the permanganate bleach, but now I'm concerned that it won't work, as you just said.
Maybe a weaker acid solution, or citric acid/permanganate instead of sulfuric acid/permanganate bleach ?

I have seen citric acid being used in place of sulfuric, and it's much less likely to destroy the emulsion, since that's what's used for most stop baths !
Dichromates are hard to get here, and permanganate is much easier and less toxic.

 

[Ryan Oliveira]

I was also planning in using Parodinal (homemade Rodinal), or Caffenol, which would be quite interesting.

 

[awty]

Darkroom contact print on ilford rc grade 2, split toned
24 x 30cm xray negative.
250 fuji lens f16
24 x30 cm plate camera

 

[Ryan Oliveira]

Bronson, can you post a photo of your reversal processed X-ray film here ? I'd like to see how it turned out.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

Nope, the original is filed away somewhere. But the inherently high-contrast nature of the film lends itself to reversal, fragile emulsion non-withstanding.

Overexpose by a few stops, develop to completion, and apply a suitable bleach etc and you're all set.

Edit: awty smashin it with contact prints

Edit 2: I will however attempt another reversal and post the results here. Probably in 4x5.

 

[Ryan Oliveira]

Thanks for helping !
What dilution of Rodinal did you use or recommend for X-ray film ?
It seems to behave close to photo paper in terms of developing time, so I'd think that 1 minute at 1:25 should be enough.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

1+100 or 1+200 for 6-11 minutes (or more) depending on the application of the negative. X-ray stock is engineered for rapid processing, so paper-like times are probably possible but development times that short haven't been my experience from pictorial usage.

If you really want some positives, it is much easier and safer to obtain superior results using standard b&w film stocks, e.g. tri-x or pan f+ albeit at a marginally higher cost

 

[Cholentpot]

I use 1:100 for 7.5 min and I've found it works with a semi stand method.

 

[Ryan Oliveira]

I also wonder if preflashing x-ray film (possibly in an enlarger) could reduce some of the high contrast and get more shadow detail ?

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

Fuji HR-U (Expired 2020-9-30) @ ISO 100, 1/60s, f64 under a single strobe with 0, -1, and -2 stops of flash compensation, respectively.
Parodinal 1+100 @ 28C 12', water stop, R9 bleach, re-exposure, re-develop in 1st dev.



Plus a blown frame to give an idea of the dmin/dmax.

These were hastily shot & developed in a tank with no particular care taken to to harden the emulsion, so there are some processing marks but the emulsion is still intact.

I also wonder if preflashing x-ray film (possibly in an enlarger) could reduce some of the high contrast and get more shadow detail ?

These are amongst the things wondered aloud willy nilly here all the time. Might I suggest trying answer the question yourself and posting your results here?

 

[Ryan Oliveira]

Really cool results, Bronson !
The blue base makes it quite unique, but as a positive it looks fantastic.
Would you recommend adding a hardener (like potassium alum) to the final water wash, or maybe in the stop bath ?

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

The tank marks are from the development step so you'd need a hardening pre-bath and/or a pyro developer. Or, better yet, get good at processing in a flat-bottom tray.

 

[Ryan Oliveira]

For sure, when I start diving in the process I might try.
I'm planning on doing a project of building my own 6×9 SLR camera, that would use X-ray sheet film, and a portable developing tank for reversal processing it "in the field".
A much smaller version of an Afgan box camera, more like a wet Polaroid.

 

[fdonadio]

I didn’t bother to read the full thread, but talking about emulsion frailty, I would recommend mammography film, since it’s coated in only one side.

@Ryan Oliveira I have some dichromate here that I can sell to you, along with some other chemistry. Please drop me a personal message if you’re interested.

 

[Cholentpot]

I didn’t bother to read the full thread, but talking about emulsion frailty, I would recommend mammography film, since it’s coated in only one side.

@Ryan Oliveira I have some dichromate here that I can sell to you, along with some other chemistry. Please drop me a personal message if you’re interested.

mammography film is still pretty fragile. I've found that stand development cuts down on issues.

 

[fdonadio]

mammography film is still pretty fragile. I've found that stand development cuts down on issues.

Yes, it sure is. But if you develop it the sheets emulsion side up, you can at least avoid getting scratches from the bottom of the tray.

 

[Cholentpot]

Yes, it sure is. But if you develop it the sheets emulsion side up, you can at least avoid getting scratches from the bottom of the tray.

I don't have a wet darkroom so for now it's not an option. Some day...

 

[Ryan Oliveira]

I have some dichromate here that I can sell to you, along with some other chemistry. Please drop me a personal message if you’re interested.

No, thanks. Sorry, but I'm not in the US anyways.
But I'm going to try the permanganate bleach with citric acid and see how it goes.

 

[Nokton48]

18x24cm Mammo Norma 121mm F45 18 pops C171 Beauty Light Grid by Nokton48, on Flickr

• Testing Kodak Mammography 18x24cm in HC-110 "H" 6.5 mins at ambient. 8x10 Sinar Norma 121mm F8 Sinar Norma Schneider Super Angulon on Norma Vertical Copy Arrangement. Shooting straight down at F45. Broncolor C171 Monolight with Broncolor Blue Pulso Beauty Dish, popped eighteen times with shutter on "B" to build up the density. Contact printed Omega DII with Omega;ite Arista RC #2 Matte paper Multigrade developer. Digital background shot by Tim Layton and was blown up by me at Costco. It was dark red so I guess I should have expected a lack of density on the right. Live and learn. Highlight tonality looks decent to me. 18x24 XRay film is easy and fun to shoot

Sinar Norma 8x10 Overhead Reflex Rig by Nokton48, on Flickr

On the left is the background I used for this test, with this new to me camera setup.

 

[Nokton48]

Yeah, that is reason why I like it! Keep using it!

I'm going to try some more HRU in the studio in smaller size. I can now do easily up to 18x24cm contact prints LOL

4x5 Fuji HRU Mic-X 5 minutes by Nokton48, on Flickr

Fuji 8x10 HR-U X-Ray cut down to 4x5, Graphmatic Holder, 4x5 Sinar Norma 180mm f5.6 chrome Durst Componon lens, full key sun. This was exposure #6, two stops over ambient reading of grey card EI 50 TTL Sinarsix 1/15 @ Fll. Short development is stock Legacy Mic-X 5 minutes 68F. Cesco flat bottomed 8x10 tray, sheets developed singly. I did a sort of ring-around, varying exposure and development times. This is the lowest contrast version which I like. 8x10 Arista RC #2 Multigrade dev Omega DII with Omegalite circuline head. Cool thing is this works out to about 7 cents per 4x5 sheet.

5 minutes in straight Microdol-X produces this pleasing result. This developer seems to last forever in a gallon bottle

Abandoned Orchard Apple Tree HRU Maki 210 Heliar by Nokton48, on Flickr

In my neighborhood there are remnants of the apple orchard that stretched for a good distance many decades ago. At the back of my property is one of the original trees, now gone wild. Plaubel Makiflex Standard, 210mm Makiflex Auto Iris Heliar, Fuji XRAY HRU 4x5" cut from 8x10. Grafmatic Film Back, Sinar 103mm Glass Disc Yellow Green. 1/15 at F5.6 Legacy Mic-X 18 minutes at 60C. Aristo #2 8x10 Omega DII Omegalite Diffusion Head Multigrade dev

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Are hangers the way to completly eliminate scratches?

They do prevent scratches, but you have to be very gentle agitating to avoid surge marks along the edges. I had a hard time with that, so flat-bottom trays won.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Will bubbling help?

What is bubbling?

 

[juan]

I use Pyrocat (to tan the emulsion), hangers, and nitrogen burst. I almost never have scratches.

 

[Rick A]

The problem with Carestream documentation is that they mention two coatings and they call them to be one atop the other. But it is unclear if they are at the same side of the support or not. I contacted them and asked if double coated means coated single sided or not, but got no answer.

Double coated means coating on both sides. I have several hundred sheets of 11x14 that I cut down for different applications. I bought them when I was still shooting 11x14 several years ago. It makes great interpositives/internegatives, enlarged negatives, etc for Alt printing and silk screen work.

 

[Nokton48]

Carestream also has a film called Min-R (and Min-R 2000). I could not find out if they are single coated.

Yes! Yes! Min-R is single coated. I have 500 sheets of it in stock here. 18x24cm fits Sinar Norma film holders

Sinar Norma 18x24 Lisco Holders XRAY by Nokton48, on Flickr

He also how it has a notch indicating film side. All of mine has been manufactured in France. Good stuff IMO! Like it


Plaubel Makiflex Standard camera 240mm F5.5 chrome barrel mount Schneider Tele-Arton at F22. One pop of Broncolor Pulso C171 monolight strobe with Broncolor Pulso Beauty Dish. No fill. 8x10 Fuji HR-U XRay film cut into 4x5s straight Microdol-X replenished in a tray development by inspection under custom red light. 4x5 Lisco Regal holder. 8x10 RC Aristo #2 Multigrade dev Omega DII with diffusion Omegalite head.

Kodak Min-R Single Sided Mammography 18x24cm by Nokton48, on Flickr