Kodak films direct from Eastman Kodak (was: Kodacolor 100. New)

[Alan Edward Klein]

This is the first indication I've seen of Eastman Kodak expressly saying that they are acting as a distributor themselves - selling to multiple other distributors.
No direct to end user sales, or even direct to retailers though.

This should lower prices to the end users. Alaris had a monopoly as a distributor. Now, Eastman has the luxury of having many distributors competing with each other. Curious what deal Eastman and Alaris made regarding Alaris's original exclusive distributorship rights?

 

[MattKing]

This should lower prices to the end users.

Maybe in one part of the world - the USA.
The rest of the world will probably see increases plus reduction i availability.
Because the extra cost overhead will likely end up in increasing the price Eastman Kodak charges KA.

 

[koraks]

Alaris had a monopoly as a distributor.

Now EK just has virtually a monopoly for color film manufacture. So logically those prices won't change much.

 

[armadsen]

For what it’s worth, B&H currently lists the new Eastman E100 for $1 cheaper than the Alaris in 35mm. The five packs of 120 are the same price, however.

 

[Aidan Sciortino]

That’s 5x7, not 4x5. B&H lists that same box for $500. But 4x5 is $80 / 10 sheets, so $400 for 50 sheets.

Isn’t the MOQ on B&H insane? I believe it’s only sold in batches of 30 50-sheet boxes.

 

[mshchem]

How did I miss that? Thank you for pointing that out.

5x7 color anything is so rare!

Personally, I think we are getting back into "Depression Era" spending as far as color sheet film is concerned. What I mean by that is a story my Father (who grew up on the tail end of the Depression) used to tell me. They had a battery powered radio; their only real form of entertainment; no electricity in the rural farm they worked. Once a month, they would take this one battery down to the local merchant and have it charged via a windmill dyno. When the battery ran out of juice later that month, that was it for entertainment until the next month.

At best, this box of 5x7 would be my yearly battery...

Boy, this sounds like my uncle's situation. My father would have been 13 in 1929, big crash, my grandparents lost the farm in 33. My uncle was born in 1930, he knew hardship. My Dad worked a couple years as a cook/helper for the railroad, then college. Another relative had an extra 80 acres by grandparents and uncle farmed. No electricity until 1951.I don't know how they charged the lead acid battery, probably swapped it out with a car every week. I have an old table, I can see the stains from the acid from the battery.

 

[mshchem]

Now EK just has virtually a monopoly for color film manufacture. So logically those prices won't change much.

Still need volume. Probably find a sweet spot to move enough film to keep fixed costs under control.

 

[YoIaMoNwater]

I wonder when EK will start selling bulk rolls of Ektachrome 100D, since Alaris was the one that stopped them from doing so in the first place? I wish they will start selling bulk rolls of any colour films, that would be amazing.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Maybe in one part of the world - the USA.
The rest of the world will probably see increases plus reduction i availability.
Because the extra cost overhead will likely end up in increasing the price Eastman Kodak charges KA.

Matt, I don;t understand your point. My understanding is that Eastman eliminated the contractual requirement for Alaris to distribute their films. They can use other competing distributors and gain the benefit of competition from them. Why assume Eastman will charge more to the other distributors for the film? If they keep the same wholesale prices, and distributors markup less than Alaris due to competition, the final prices to stores and end users will be less, even overseas.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Now EK just has virtually a monopoly for color film manufacture. So logically those prices won't change much.

That hasn't changed. The reduction in price will come from more competition on the distributor side once Alaris no longer has an exclusive right for distributorship..

 

[koraks]

The reduction in price will come from more competition on the distributor side once Alaris no longer has an exclusive right for distributorship..

That's based on the assumption that Alaris' margin was sufficient to allow for increased competition in the sales channels to erode price in a meaningful way, as well as the assumption that no other factors will drive up prices and thereby eliminate any gains potentially accruing from that increased competition. Personally, I think it's virtually guaranteed that there's not going to be a positive net effect for end users/consumers, especially in the long run and that the 'more competition' argument is just too shallow and simplistic.

 

[MattKing]

Eastman Kodak probably has higher costs than Kodak Alaris for the distribution efforts and infrastructure - particularly in the short term - and as a publicly traded entity with capital limitations will most likely require a higher margin be tacked on to the price in order to justify those costs and earn a profit on the distribution part of their business.
And I certainly don't expect to see lower priced motion picture film marketed to still film users. The motion picture film division won't be interested in diluting their position.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Eastman Kodak probably has higher costs than Kodak Alaris for the distribution efforts and infrastructure - particularly in the short term - and as a publicly traded entity with capital limitations will most likely require a higher margin be tacked on to the price in order to justify those costs and earn a profit on the distribution part of their business.
And I certainly don't expect to see lower priced motion picture film marketed to still film users. The motion picture film division won't be interested in diluting their position.

But Kodak isn;t doing direct distribution, except possibly in the USA. They'll be giving their film to established film distributors besides Alaris. These distributors will just add Kodak to their already established distribution. Their costs will be less than Alaris since they're already distributing other photography equipment and film. So they can do it with lower markups and lower end user prices. Alaris distribution is more dedicated to Kodak only. Plus new distributors can;t be as greedy as Alaris who had a monopoly on Kodak film distribution.

 

[koraks]

There's a lot of assumptions underlying your statements. It's basically a lot of happy guesswork and wishful thinking. You're also overstating the relevance of Alaris' former monopoly, as pointed out earlier.

 

[MattKing]

But Kodak isn;t doing direct distribution, except possibly in the USA. They'll be giving their film to established film distributors besides Alaris. These distributors will just add Kodak to their already established distribution. Their costs will be less than Alaris since they're already distributing other photography equipment and film. So they can do it with lower markups and lower end user prices. Alaris distribution is more dedicated to Kodak only. Plus new distributors can;t be as greedy as Alaris who had a monopoly on Kodak film distribution.

Those other distributors are the ones that Kodak Alaris was selling to previously - Kodak Alaris never sold directly to retailers or end users.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Those other distributors are the ones that Kodak Alaris was selling to previously - Kodak Alaris never sold directly to retailers or end users.

So now, Eastman eliminates the Alaris markup hopefully lowering prices for us. Of course, we don;lt know the deal made between the two. Alaris might have sold its rights back to Eastman for a price or a royalty, or both. Frankly, I like the idea that Eastman is doing this again., It shows their commitment to film.

 

[MattKing]

So now, Eastman eliminates the Alaris markup hopefully lowering prices for us.

And add a higher markup, due to having higher costs and management that is more aggressive about requiring return on investment, due to having to compete internally for access to resources and capital.

 

[mshchem]

You all know what they say about assumptions?

 

[mshchem]

I'm waiting for the return of Kodachrome, 8,16, 35mm, 120 with Kodak processing labs scattered around the country, PROCESSING INCLUDED, mailer requires 2 1st class stamps.

 

[benderscameracorner]

It's a weird situation though of course the whole Eastman/Alaris situation coming out of the bankruptcy was weird too. Can't see how the situation was good for anyone other than people with money tied in the UK Pension Plan... though 'Kodak' nonetheless survived and is still making film, so that's something at least.

Exactly how Eastman has separated themselves from Alaris, and the long term implications is still hard to understand. The latter got sold to Private Equity in 2024 (?) and generally those guys still like to make money (while killing the business in the process usually) so clearly there's some kind of arrangement in place that gives Alaris some kind of value. I read somewhere there's agreements in place until 2028.

I doubt we'll see any meaningful price reductions... even without double-dipping on distribution there's so much going on with silver prices, other inputs, tariffs and the fluctuating US dollar at the moment, plus the fact that Eastman's profit margins are still pretty miserable relative to how the business operated in its heyday.

That said, it's in their best interests to make and sell as much film as possible, given (a) Eastman's production facilities are, to the best of my knowledge, still optimised to produce way more film that current demand and (b) Kodak historically only ever made good profits off selling film at scale. OK, we're never going to see 1980s/1990s film volume again, but AU$40 rolls of Portra and AU$55 rolls of Ektachrome aren't exactly helping encourage the new generations to pick up film.

I really really wish Eastman would offer 100ft 35mm rolls of Ektachrome E100 and Vision3 250D. I realise they're probably terrified of respoolers but if they priced manageable bulk rolls at a fair price they'd take margins out of the respooler market pretty quickly. I'm sure CineStill would take issue too with the latter. But even offering retail cassettes of 250D at less than-Portra 400 prices would be a no brainer. The market's waiting and with the AHU version there's a lot less concern about remjet fouling minilabs.

Anyway, Eastman getting control back should be a good thing, it has the tools to make its market better. Though given it's past 20-30 year track record of shooting itself in both feet... hmmm!

 

[IMoL]

I would just like to be able to officially buy 100ft rolls of 5222 XX. This would make me extremely happy.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

And add a higher markup, due to having higher costs and management that is more aggressive about requiring return on investment, due to having to compete internally for access to resources and capital.

More competition among distributors will lower prices. That's how markets work.

 

[warden]

More competition among distributors will lower prices. That's how markets work.

That’s a sound argument if you happen to be in a middle school economics class and the lunch bell is about to ring. Kodak’s situation is vastly more complex than that, and their actions may not be intended to lower prices.

(I certainly won’t complain if prices go down!)

 

[ChrisGalway]

More competition among distributors will lower prices. That's how markets work.

In principle, yes, but I very much doubt that colour film will come down in price. There is not really any competition at the quality end of the market. Fuji are busy expanding their Instax money-maker (and not reducing its unit cost either) and not building its traditional film market. Perhaps a few Kodak B&W products might come down in price, but that's a small market compared to colour.

For many, it's Kodak ... or Kodak, no competition.

 

[koraks]

More competition among distributors will lower prices. That's how markets work.

There are oodles of distributors of Microsoft products. Yet, the same Windows 11 license costs the same regardless of the channel through which you purchase it in any given region. So apparently, markets don't work the way you believe and there's more going on. In reality, the market for film will show dynamics that are somewhere in-between those of a fixed price monopoly and a quasi-perfect "cost price +" free market dynamic. How exactly it'll pan out, we don't know as one of the key issues still unresolved is what the distribution network is exactly going to look like. Also, as I indicated earlier, there are plenty of factors that can erode or even entirely negate whatever theoretical savings might accrue from this supposed increased competition.

How this market works you really don't know. You know how a very simple, perfect, theoretical market works. But that isn't very relevant outside the classroom scope that @warden also mentions, because such markets in reality do not exist anywhere on this planet.