In praise of old light meters

Sirius Glass

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Correct. The meters stayed the same; the film speed doubled.


Again the first sentence is correct. I was there when it happened. Ektachrome when from 32 ASA to 64 ASA. Tri-X went from 200 ASA to 400 ASA.

And you whippersnappers think you know something. Harrumph!
 

Helge

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I’m holding it according to the manual. A tad downwards.
But my test measurement was done in daylight pointed to a white wall.
With the measurement read/stop done at exactly the same moment.
So that should take spectral sensitivity differences and changing light out of the equation.
I also checked it against my best Ikophot of approximately the same vintage.
It actually seemed to agree a bit more with that one. Though it’s hard to be sure since the Ikophot does not have as precise markings on the dial.
 

MattKing

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Again the first sentence is correct. I was there when it happened. Ektachrome when from 32 ASA to 64 ASA. Tri-X went from 200 ASA to 400 ASA.
And when that happened, did you change the speed setting on your meter?
And when you did, did the meter tell you to change the exposure setting on your camera?
And what exposure setting did a newer, post 1960 meter recommend if it was the set to the same ASA as the older meter?
 

MattKing

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FWIW, I was 4 years old in 1960.
 

Sirius Glass

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All the instructions said to raise the ASA setting to twice the speed. No one was including Ansel Adams recommended endless senseless repeated Zone System testing. People just did it without any trucker demonstrations or other fanfare like we have today.
 

MattKing

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All the instructions said to raise the ASA setting to twice the speed.
Instructions from where - the film suppliers, or the meter manufacturers?
 

Bill Burk

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A Weston Master II used Weston speed determination method and you have to choose the next lower setting with any ASA /ISO speed rated film to (approximately) account for the difference between Weston and ASA in the US. (Not sure the correction for a UK model but some correspondence leads me to believe the dials are not the same).

A Weston Master III miraculously has accommodated the change for both the old and new ASA speeds.
 

Bill Burk

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I say miraculously but am teasing. Old and New ASA are the same on meter dials.
 

Sirius Glass

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I say miraculously but am teasing. Old and New ASA are the same on meter dials.

You probably pulled enough legs that some are now walking around with one leg longer than the other.
 

Philippe-Georges

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Speaking about "Rocky Mountain Oysters": at the time in the French Foreign Legion, it was habit for a legionair, before engaging the 'act' with a lady, to sit in a dish with 'hot' water in order to warm his goodies so not to create offspring (the hygienic effect was a rather minor detail on that very moment). In the Sahara, Latex wasn't always that secure then, and radars didn't exist...
O TEMPORA O MORES!
 

Helge

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Ok, the Weston IV is definitely off.
What could be wished away as different standards and metering pattern, is completely offset by huge non linearity in the high range.
Tried what I should have done yesterday and used the inverticone to meter vs another incident meter. Way off when the meter approaches max deflection.
With the blocker plate up it's somewhat accurate but what good is that?
Any last things to try before I retire this, probably my last Weston to the "broken meters" box?
Pity, because the inverticone and batteryless sensitivity is so cool.

Incredible that my Ikophots are mostly bang on and they are possibly older and also Selenium. Is it the size of the cell?
Off to get a Sekonic L-398A.
 
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MattKing

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I slept on this.
You are right. The old, pre-1960 ASA was designed to give you denser negatives. The meters - pre and post 1960 - work the same.
 

benjiboy

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I think some film manufacturers in the late 50s or early sixties made their A.S.A"s faster by removing the safety margin that films had in those days because light meters were not common and most users guessed their exposures. I remember Ilford FP 3 was 80 A.S.A and F.P.4 was 125. when it came out, and they were virtually the same film.
 
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I have a collection of old light meters. I never paid more than a few dollars each for them. Some are accurate, some don't work and some need silver oxide batteries. I also have some with selenium cells that don't require batteries which are my favorite. I think they're cool and plan to put them in a wood display case to show my photo nerdiness.
 

Bill Burk

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A meter with a setting for film speed using the older, pre-1960 standard will give an exposure setting recommendation one stop different than a meter with a setting for film speed using the newer, post-1960 standard.
No not at all. To prove it, pick up a Weston Master III which is the first of their meters using ASA, dial in “Sunny 16” settings. Then change the ASA to pre-1960, and look at the Sunny 16 again. Notice the arrow still points at just above the “Light” number 200.

You’ll also realize the only thing you changed was 400 to 200 in two places.

The only way I could prove it to myself was to hold the meter in my hands and try it. Word games can fool you every time.
 

Bill Burk

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@MattKing unless you meant a meter set for 400 vs a meter set for 200… then there is a stop difference.
 

MattKing

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@MattKing unless you meant a meter set for 400 vs a meter set for 200… then there is a stop difference.
See my post here:
I slept on this.
You are right. The old, pre-1960 ASA was designed to give you denser negatives. The meters - pre and post 1960 - work the same.
 

tokam

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Shoot like it's 1960 again. This Sekonic L8 Director came from the estate of my late father-in-law. Just checked it outside in a scene of moderate brightness and it gave about a half stop more exposure than my Gossen Profisix. I don't use it but it's a nice keepsake. About the size of a matchbox.
 

Bill Burk

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@Helge Your Weston Master IV might be bad (non linearity in the high range). I had one or two bad Weston meters (bad still even after trying to fix). Just buy another one. They are such good values that you can take a chance.
 

Bill Burk

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I slept on this.
You are right. The old, pre-1960 ASA was designed to give you denser negatives. The meters - pre and post 1960 - work the same.
I knew you couldn’t believe the meters changed, though it is a mind game that’s easy to lose for a minute
 

Helge

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@Helge Your Weston Master IV might be bad (non linearity in the high range). I had one or two bad Weston meters (bad still even after trying to fix). Just buy another one. They are such good values that you can take a chance.
For all the money and time spend on bad selenium lightmeters I could have bought at least two or three Sekonic L-398A.
Time to cut the losses, stop playing around and support a current player.

My Ikophot is wonderful in daylight but indoors and in deep shade and in nighttime cityscapes, where you need a good meter the most, It’s simply not sensitive enough.

I deeply appreciate the idea of a battery less meter, that you can just treat well and always have ready to go year after year without ever worrying about leaking, or if the batteries are quite fresh enough.
 
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