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Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

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FILM Ferrania said:
You guys... I know our updates are long, but it is my hope that at least APUG folks will read the whole thing. In the update, we said the plan is to have the 120 converting line in operation by April. The work has already begun.
Click to expand...

I thought the three smiles were enough to indicate that I knew the 120 is still in the "eagerly anticipated" category ...
 
FILM Ferrania said:
You guys... I know our updates are long, but it is my hope that at least APUG folks will read the whole thing. :wondering:

In the update, we said the plan is to have the 120 converting line in operation by April. The work has already begun.
Click to expand...

I missed the April part! Well, I guess that qualifies as Real Soon™! :D
 
US shop is taking orders. I just ordered 5 rolls.

Dead Link Removed
 
I can second that! $8.50 a roll. $13 to ship it to Canada. Max of 10 per order. Prices in US. Just ordered 10. Now let's see how Canada Post can screw things up once it's passed across the border.
 
Larry Cloetta said:
Dave,
Thanks for the encouraging update. I personally found P30 to be one of the best films I have ever used, in terms of achieving the results I favor, so am looking forward not only to getting some more, but to the long term viability of Film Ferrania as a profitable and sustainable business.
Achieving that goal requires profits. Achieving it as soon as people here are clamoring for requires even bigger profits.The physical and logistical and staffing bottlenecks can all be overcome with decidedly more cash on hand, which I doubt is much of an oversimplification. The return of 120, and the return of color reversal film will substantially follow a timeline which pretty much tracks with the amount of money on hand to hire people and pay for things, it might be fairly safe to say, I am imagining.
With that and with the desire of the photography community for sooner rather than later in mind, would it not be an idea worth considering to raise the per roll price of P30 by $1 when you open the store in two days? I would imagine it would not hurt sales volume at this point. That would seem to make more sense than scraping by forever just to have an introductory price which is "competitive" with other manufacturers, only to have to fold the business later because it took forever to get it fully off the ground. I understand that some people will howl at this idea, but some people always howl. You can always lower prices later, and I think most would understand the rationale going forward.
Running a business on razor thin margins is never a good idea, and if your biggest current worry is meeting demand for product, it makes little sense to do so. Just a suggestion.
Click to expand...

Hi Larry,
I really appreciate this post. You are insightful, and correct, in your points.
We have decided not to raise the price of P30 135, even though it would certainly benefit us. Margins are not a priority for us in the short-term.
Cash flow is most important for us now because it widens our options for financing the Converting Project.
Outside funding would be really fantastic, obviously. But it's tricky because we don't need much and we would not make the radar of most investors. We are pursuing a few ideas about how to make it happen.
 
Thanks, Dave. I'm good either way, and just ordered ten rolls. Will try to put it to good use; Good luck with everything!
 
Likewise, I just order 10 rolls too. The store website works well, quick and painless with no hiccups. Now I wait for delivery,

Jim B.
 
Likewise, 10 rolls at 8.50 plus a tote at 8 bucks... 17 bucks to Canada. Now waiting a tracking number :wink: Only order # 78, where are the rest of you.?
As far as Cash flow, my credit card is already showing the "Authorized Transaction"
 
cmacd123 said:
Likewise, 10 rolls at 8.50 plus a tote at 8 bucks... 17 bucks to Canada. Now waiting a tracking number :wink: Only order # 78, where are the rest of you.?
As far as Cash flow, my credit card is already showing the "Authorized Transaction"
Click to expand...
The tote must be adding the extra $4. I'm surprised that they're only at order 78 for all US and Canada. Maybe when more people get home from work tonight the orders will come in. I was order 50 at 1:30 atlantic standard time.
 
cmacd123 said:
Likewise, 10 rolls at 8.50 plus a tote at 8 bucks... 17 bucks to Canada. Now waiting a tracking number :wink: Only order # 78, where are the rest of you.?
As far as Cash flow, my credit card is already showing the "Authorized Transaction"
Click to expand...
Ces1um said:
The tote must be adding the extra $4. I'm surprised that they're only at order 78 for all US and Canada. Maybe when more people get home from work tonight the orders will come in. I was order 50 at 1:30 atlantic standard time.
Click to expand...

We've been using Squarespace for our main website since 2013. But their shop software wasn't good enough for a very long time.

Just recently, they added a couple of features to their shop software, so it's viable for us now.

It's far from ideal, but it works. It won't crash like our first shop. The checkout is pretty slick.

Shipping is calculated based on weight and size. I like that the checkout page lets you choose the shipping option, because sometimes the Expedited rate (Priority Mail) is cheaper than Standard (First Class mail).

Orders are coming in slowly because I purposely haven't announced anything on social media or by email blast. I wanted to make sure the site wasn't going to crash or some other tragedy.

Stock is limited anyway, so I'm happy to let the most interested and eager folks get a crack at making a purchase. I can always pump the gas if I need to.
 
FILM Ferrania said:
The checkout is pretty slick.
Orders are coming in slowly because I purposely haven't announced anything on social media or by email blast. I wanted to make sure the site wasn't going to crash or some other tragedy.
Stock is limited anyway, so I'm happy to let the most interested and eager folks get a crack at making a purchase. I can always pump the gas if I need to.
Click to expand...

Yup- gotta say I liked the checkout process. Clean, clear, easy and efficient.

As for orders coming in slowly/soft relaunch- seems a reasonable precaution given the last launch. Wish you guys the best of luck! I really love the look of the film and look forward to the time when additional formats become possible. Until then, I'll enjoy the 35mm!
 
Congratulations on being back on sale, Dave!
This was a hard piece of work for all of you.
 
Curiosity question, somewhat towards Ferrania and the desire to generate cash with constrained 135 output, but in general as well.

Reading here and elsewhere seem to indicate the “finishing” of films to be a huge expense. With 120, it is the need for spools, backing, and tape plus the assembly costs.

As with many of us who shoot and develop our own 120 film, I have amassed a large quantity of spools and backing in the format which is perfectly reusable.

I have also, like many others, used non perforated or slit film to make very usable 127, 828, and 116/616 film.

Given that a number of us want to try P30 in 120, how feasible is it to sell bulk length rolls of 120, banded, double bagged, and then in a small box to get more of this film out there to those who want it (and are willing to spool it) while generating some more cash flow to get some of the bottlenecks remedied. Is the acetate of 120 thickness already in house for coating?
 
Meyer Trioplan said:
Given that a number of us want to try P30 in 120, how feasible is it to sell bulk length rolls of 120, banded, double bagged, and then in a small box to get more of this film out there to those who want it (and are willing to spool it) while generating some more cash flow to get some of the bottlenecks remedied. Is the acetate of 120 thickness already in house for coating?
Click to expand...

The simplest answer is "converting is converting" - whether you cut off 100m rolls or 1.5m rolls, it all must converted. It has to be perforated, signed, cut to length and packaged. And we simply cannot afford to convert anything by hand.

Concerning 120, that's a good question. I seem to remember that yes, we do have it in-house already. And as far as I know, it's triacetate, not polyester. But I should check on that.
 
FILM Ferrania said:
The simplest answer is "converting is converting" - whether you cut off 100m rolls or 1.5m rolls, it all must converted. It has to be perforated, signed, cut to length and packaged. And we simply cannot afford to convert anything by hand.

Concerning 120, that's a good question. I seem to remember that yes, we do have it in-house already. And as far as I know, it's triacetate, not polyester. But I should check on that.
Click to expand...

By the way - Film Ferrania I noticed just your pricing of USD 8,50 a simple 135-35 roll.
It is a good realistic decision to make P30 with this price.
We all gues if P30 comes in much greater volume than today you possible might have nice pricing in the future.
But this also may depend to other manufactures.We should all know some rare special emulsions in bw (ISO25 films, IR spectrum films a.s.o) wich are priced at $ 6,95/ $ 7,95.
And nowbody can say if it isn't $8,95 tomorrow from other manufacturers.

SO THE PRICING IS REAL OK WITH P30 !

with regards

PS : To everybody who is knowing me as one real critical to high film pricing -
imagine what is sayd with this sentence.
(It is INDEED a faire price)

PPS : When you all have a more and more demand to this film - I am quite sure somewere in the future - this P30 could reach sales in big volumes and that should be the time to make bulks possible. (higher sales from volume )
 
I'm a little bit confused...
In the P30 part of the website, and in the "Best Practices" dokument it says that you Really Really should shoot at 80ASA. Somewhere in this discussion it says that P30 is made for D96 (cinema film) and d76 is the closest commercial match. It also says somewhere that continuous agitation is a good idea.

On the other hand. In the "Best Practices" document is only gives a time for D96 and D76 at 50 ASA, continuous agitation Also the rest of the D76 timess is for 'Normal' agitation.

Is this only because of that the times is what is reported back instead of what is tested at Film Ferrania?

PS: When trying developing Orwo N54 that also is a cinema film I suddenly got a whole new grayscale. It really seems that cinema film like D96/D76 and continuous agitation!
 
trendland said:
By the way - Film Ferrania I noticed just your pricing of USD 8,50 a simple 135-35 roll....

SO THE PRICING IS REAL OK WITH P30 !...
Click to expand...
At $8.50 per roll I won't be buying any.

This is not so say that others should not buy at that price, but for me it is not a price I could justify, given my personal financial situation. If my income were higher I might consider buying a few rolls to try out, but realistically speaking I would not pay that price when I can buy Kodak or Ilford for less, or Foma or Arista Edu Ultra or Kentmere for a lot less money.
 
jogr said:
I'm a little bit confused...
In the P30 part of the website, and in the "Best Practices" dokument it says that you Really Really should shoot at 80ASA. Somewhere in this discussion it says that P30 is made for D96 (cinema film) and d76 is the closest commercial match. It also says somewhere that continuous agitation is a good idea.

On the other hand. In the "Best Practices" document is only gives a time for D96 and D76 at 50 ASA, continuous agitation Also the rest of the D76 timess is for 'Normal' agitation.

Is this only because of that the times is what is reported back instead of what is tested at Film Ferrania?

PS: When trying developing Orwo N54 that also is a cinema film I suddenly got a whole new grayscale. It really seems that cinema film like D96/D76 and continuous agitation!
Click to expand...
One question is why are they using the ASA standard which hasn't been used in 30 years. Did they really test it or is it just a retro marketing shtick. Or maybe ASA stands for Anecdotal Standards Association. I'm doubting densitometry was involved.
 
faberryman said:
I'm just looking at the box. It says ASA.
Click to expand...
That probably a nod at the heritage. If I remember correctly ASA and ISO is more or less the same (replaced two national standards with a third international?). EI is close enough for amateurs.

/Johan
 
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