Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

[Andrew O'Neill]

Got it. Thank you for taking the time to explain.

 

[flavio81]

Why are there so many medium speed aka 80-100 iso B&W films? and why add yet one more?

This is a good question but for me the 80-125 speed films are like the 35-50mm lenses.
They are so "general purpose" that there's nothing wrong with having more than one...
For example for the Nikon system i have three different 35mm lenses and four different 50mm lenses.
They are so versatile and useful that is nice to have different flavors of the same type of lens.

In 80-125 films you have FP4, Fomapan 100, Delta 100, Tmax 100, Acros 100... Those 5 are pretty different and it seems that P30 is different as well.

I know for example that i can create a high tech, "modern" look with Delta 100; a high-tech, more or less "dark tonality" look with Acros 100, a very peculiar look with Fomapan 100, that Tmax 100 is general purpose and the FP4 is also general purpose but more grainy and more pushable.

 

[flavio81]

Worth repeating for the ones who believe Ferrania will never make color film:

The Ferrania equipment I have seen is state of the art, pretty much.

The Ferrania equipment I have seen is state of the art, pretty much.

The Ferrania equipment I have seen is state of the art, pretty much.

 

[flavio81]

Looks like Acros might be going bye-bye and TMax 100 maybe never to return as 120, so we sure could use more B&W films right now.

Is there a thread about this?

I will miss Acros a lot...
On the other hand Delta 100 and FP4 are great and available in 120 format.

 

[mshchem]

No Andrew. Coatings can be horizontal or vertical, it is the nature of the head end or "hopper" that determines the "modernity" of a coater as follows:

Trough coater
Trough with doctor blade or air knife
Extrusion hopper
Slide hopper
Curtain coater

That is a rough sequence and the last 3 can be vertical or horizontal.

PE

Are the film bases, acetate or polyester a single extrusion or are they co-extruded, different materials?? Extruding plastic film is a major task,coating multiple layers of emulsions etc is beyond my imagination. Film is a miracle.
Best Mike

 

[darkroom_rookie]

Former Fotokemika coater back in 2012 (since scrapped):

 

[airgrphx]

Just received the e-mail with the receipt (
Order Number: 906xx)

 

[Photo Engineer]

Worth repeating for the ones who believe Ferrania will never make color film:

Gee, nice to hear, but even Kodak is having a tiny bit of trouble in that they cannot instantly start up Ektachrome and Kodachrome 25 was not coatable on the newest machine. They will have to do some R&D for Ektachrome if they do it at all. So, don't take that quote too seriously in this instance. It takes more than a coating machine.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Are the film bases, acetate or polyester a single extrusion or are they co-extruded, different materials?? Extruding plastic film is a major task,coating multiple layers of emulsions etc is beyond my imagination. Film is a miracle.
Best Mike

Mike, I suggest that you read Bob Shanebrook's book for this answer. This is a huge subject and uses completely different methods. One base is cast from a melt and the other is cast from a solution, just for example, and that then has to be "tentered".

 

[Nzoomed]

Question is who will get E6 back first? Kodak or Ferrania???!!!

 

[Nzoomed]

In 2012 Nicola and Marco, as the article explained, were just looking for splitters for their Bulgarian endeavour, they knocked on Ferrania's doors because they wanted to buy slitters. The kickstarter money collection begun at the end of 2014. That is, at most, the date at which your clock can begin ticking.

Honest criticism is OK but certainly you are making the devil worse than he is.
The project is late and that is due to some factors which are often not accounted nor accountable for. This is a very complicated project and is, in a sense, "unprecedented" and delays are to be considered not a tragedy.

See it this way: maybe if they had foreseen all the difficulties at the beginning of the project they wouldn't have even tried. Maybe they were too optimistic, but that's in a sense a luck for the project. A new project is successful not because all difficulties were foreseen (that wouldn't be a new endeavour) but because difficulties are solved when they emerge.

I believe that Ferrania is and was in good faith at any moment they gave some dates, and this good faith is the metre whereby I judge the correctness of their attitude.

The main point I want to make is that whatever "deadline" for such a project is not be seen as a "deadline", but as an indicative date. There is no contractual obligation and there cannot be. It's a "best effort" promise, always.

Kickstarter founders know well that a project can, also, fail. Any investor knows that. You give money and you buy a hope, not a certainty. It's called capitalism.

I agree.
Geez, ive been involved in so many kickstarter projects, ive seen this happen virtually everytime, but in the end its always ended up in success for me.

 

[cmacd123]

OTOH, a few quotes from the offer:-

"The Budget:- If we are successful, the money is targeted to two specific tasks
1. Purchase and removal of Trixie, Walter & Big Boy - 75%
2. Expenses for packing and shipping the rewards - 25%

"We already have everything we need to make the film!"

"The first stages of film production are already underway. "
.

lets not forget that this was before they found asbestos, had their steam cut off, were kicked out of the building for renovations, had Chemicals that they thought they could use as is go out of date, had deadlines to salvage equipment moved up. etc etc.

 

[cmacd123]

Here you are:

Great, I have asked on a movie technology list if that is what they would have expected on Ferrania Print film in the day, and if the 10d might have some special meaning

 

[ericdan]

Except p30 is a unique B&W film that already is giving good feedback from the alpha shooters.

As unique as Silvermax with 'an extremely high silver content"

 

[ericdan]

This is a good question but for me the 80-125 speed films are like the 35-50mm lenses.
They are so "general purpose" that there's nothing wrong with having more than one...
For example for the Nikon system i have three different 35mm lenses and four different 50mm lenses.
They are so versatile and useful that is nice to have different flavors of the same type of lens.

In 80-125 films you have FP4, Fomapan 100, Delta 100, Tmax 100, Acros 100... Those 5 are pretty different and it seems that P30 is different as well.

I know for example that i can create a high tech, "modern" look with Delta 100; a high-tech, more or less "dark tonality" look with Acros 100, a very peculiar look with Fomapan 100, that Tmax 100 is general purpose and the FP4 is also general purpose but more grainy and more pushable.

Good points, but "General purpose" I don't really understand, especially not in 35mm.
This is just an opinion, but B&W panchromatic film just never looks right without a yellow filter or even an orange filter.
Skin tones are always too dark unless you add a filter. Landscapes have flat skies unless you add a filter and for landscape photography medium or large format is better suited anyhow.
If I use a yellow filter with a 100 speed film then it's practically the same as shooting a 50 speed film. For most 35mm applications I find that way too slow. Imagine an orange filter... That's why I find 400 speed films much more useful for 35mm cameras.

 

[Chris Livsey]

Great, I have asked on a movie technology list if that is what they would have expected on Ferrania Print film in the day, and if the 10d might have some special meaning

That would be interesting, can you link to the list?

 

[pbromaghin]

Question is who will get E6 back first? Kodak or Ferrania???!!!

Sounds like an opportunity for the London bookies.

 

[cmacd123]

That would be interesting, can you link to the list?

it is a closed list for folks interested in Motion Picture technology.

 

[Berri]

Is there a thread about this?

I will miss Acros a lot...
On the other hand Delta 100 and FP4 are great and available in 120 format.

Across is still available here in Europe, I don't think it's discontinued. TMax 120 is nowhere to be seen...Ilford delta 100 is a great film and it's cheap as well. I think P30 could have a decent market if the price will not be too high, it should be around the same price (maybe a bit more) than foma 100

 

[Peter Schrager]

We are blessed with so many choices!!

 

[Berri]

Question is who will get E6 back first? Kodak or Ferrania???!!!

I think Kodak will keep the word and deliver the new ektachrome this winter

 

[Prest_400]

I currently work in a 7 (of 9) staffed bank branch. The work is per se not complex but coming at an overwhelming pace because it is in the dead center of a large city, not helped by a reduced an understaffed workforce. That a team of 7 (counting the hands on Italian team) has produced P30 and is on the way for a colour film is just magnificient. Kodak has much more resources on hand.

A few years ago the alternate scenario forecasted was worse than what the market is nowadays. 2014 might have seen the end of Kodak. OK, Ferrania hasn't got a Chrome, but it has a film and is working well for it!

 

[Chris Livsey]

7 (of 9)

 

[FILM Ferrania]

and to be honest this is not looking too good...why some films have ferrania and frame numbers and some don't?

Oh Berri, nothing ever seems to look good to you where we are concerned...

We explained in a post a while back that because we were using the cinema perforator, there were no frame numbers on the ALPHA run of P30.

We have recently, however, set up and tested a proper signature and frame-numbering perforator. This film is being finished now and will begin shipping in a week or two.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I ordered it on the 15th March at 16:02, the day the shop opened.
And hour earlier I had sent an email about the web shop crash.
As I posted before my order number is 904xx.

Before all of you guys go around comparing order numbers, you should understand that we are shipping from three warehouses and there are realities that force us to go "out of order" in some ways.

1. All orders were taken through one shop and so all orders are numbered sequentially - but since we have three warehouses, we had to divide the orders by warehouse. This fact alone means that we cannot strictly follow the order numbers globally - only within each warehouse.
2. We cannot ship something to each of the three warehouses every week. We have to count the total number of films available for shipping, then make a calculation of the shipping cost. For example, we cannot ship 200pcs to the US - the cost is too high, but we can ship that amount to our rest-of-world warehouse or our EU warehouse. This also causes some "out of order" shipping.
3. Because of some credit card failures and other anomalies caused by our original e-commerce provider - about 5% of orders must be handled personally by me and these are out of sequence with the rest, even though I try very hard to make sure they're not WAY out of order...

Compare order numbers if you must, but please keep these things in mind.