Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

[Berri]

No one has their knickers in a twist, and everyone admires the folk at Ferrania for producing film against all odds. The point, which you keep missing, is that, to avoid a worse case scenario, they have to sell the product....and in quantities many times more than a few of we cranky enthusiasts buying half-a-dozen rolls to try out ( maybe, before we go back to our trusted Kodak and Ilford, etc., which we can order online and have delivered tomorrow). They have to convince serious professional still and movie makers that they are a reliable business with a top-quality product. If I'm an indie film-maker, I'll probably rely on digital anyway (costs and convenience), but, if I believe that film will give me a better result, I've got to convince my own backers and accountants....then, having done that, do I tell them, I'm not going to use the regular Kodak film, which the camera guys and labs understand and trust, I'm going to use some stuff from Italy which a few guys make using salvaged equipment make in an old factory which 3m abandoned years ago (sorry, Ferrania, that's not directed at you, it's at the posters here who don't read properly, then jump to conclusions). It's a massive task yet.

Not sure if I agree with you. I don't believe they have to sell to professionals to stay in the market, infact we enthusiasts are much more in number then a bunch of pros that still use film. In the cinema industry though it is the other way round, but as I said before major Hollywood productions will never buy Ferrania film.

 

[railwayman3]

Not sure if I agree with you. I don't believe they have to sell to professionals to stay in the market, infact we enthusiasts are much more in number then a bunch of pros that still use film. In the cinema industry though it is the other way round, but as I said before major Hollywood productions will never buy Ferrania film.

I really hope that there are still enough enthusiasts. Despite being a keen analog enthusiast myself (and Ferrania backer), I know only one other person who actually still used film, and I've not seen him for a year or two, so not up-to-date on his present interest. The rest of my family and friends are regular digital users (and, tbh, the "serious" ones produce some amazing work) and have no reason to change...those are facts. Other than that, I have spotted one other 35mm user, an elderly guy, in a whole year of days and holidays out-and-about. The other fact is that there are still several other film manufacturers making reliable and (usually) readily available product. And, yes, transparancy photos are still unbeatable, but life could go on without E6.

Hopefully, I'm just having a "down" morning, IDK ?

 

[DaveTheWalker]

Just out of interest, has anyone received a voucher code yet? It's definitely afternoon in the UK (and Italy) now...

 

[afriman]

No one has their knickers in a twist, and everyone admires the folk at Ferrania for producing film against all odds. The point, which you keep missing, is that, to avoid a worse case scenario, they have to sell the product....and in quantities many times more than a few of we cranky enthusiasts buying half-a-dozen rolls to try out ( maybe, before we go back to our trusted Kodak and Ilford, etc., which we can order online and have delivered tomorrow). They have to convince serious professional still and movie makers that they are a reliable business with a top-quality product. If I'm an indie film-maker, I'll probably rely on digital anyway (costs and convenience), but, if I believe that film will give me a better result, I've got to convince my own backers and accountants....then, having done that, do I tell them, I'm not going to use the regular Kodak film, which the camera guys and labs understand and trust, I'm going to use some stuff from Italy which a few guys make using salvaged equipment make in an old factory which 3m abandoned years ago (sorry, Ferrania, that's not directed at you, it's at the posters here who don't read properly, then jump to conclusions). It's a massive task yet.

Thank you, Railwayman3. No repetition would have been necessary had people like klownshed not persistently missed the point. That is exasperating.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

I know only one other person who actually still used film

You need to come and see me in London.
I'll introduce you to some people who mainly use film, young people and not so young.

 

[afriman]

They have to convince serious professional still and movie makers that they are a reliable business with a top-quality product.

Precisely. It's striking how it's mainly people who are or have been involved in industries like film and video production, software, advertising etc. who are acutely aware of this. But the same holds true for the business world at large. A retailer considering whether they are going to stock the product of a small upstart company (which Film Ferrania is from their perspective) in a field that is not exactly profitable right now, will need to be convinced that that company is reliable in every way, not only regarding their quality control, but also their ability to deliver as promised, to communicate efficiently and to stand by their product by providing strong back-up. They can't be expected to be as tolerant and patient as we are. A "sh*t happens" attitude won't cut it.

 

[railwayman3]

Just out of interest, has anyone received a voucher code yet? It's definitely afternoon in the UK (and Italy) now...

It's around 1.30 p.m. now, here in the UK, and nothing received yet.

 

[klownshed]

No repetition would have been necessary had people like klownshed not persistently missed the point

What point have I missed? Railwayman3 makes many.

Was it that 1970s FIATs are only good for chicken coops? Or that Blasphemy is still a thing?

That is exasperating

It's just an Internet thread. No need for exasperation.

The complaints about Ferrania's professionalism or lack of thereof is tedious however. It's up to them to decide who they need to target their sales to. Not you. And if they do target the professionals, good luck. With both of them. ;-)

The amateur market is just as demanding. Once the 'final' products are shipping people won't be so forgiving. But Ferrania deserve a little slack and patience in the run up to production. Once they're in full flow the market will decide whether or not Ferrania as a business is viable.

It's hard enough for Ferrania to make this work without the constant negativity.

 

[railwayman3]

The complaints about Ferrania's professionalism or lack of thereof is tedious however. It's up to them to decide who they need to target their sales to. Not yours. And if they do target the professionals, good luck. With both of them. ;-)

Actually, as many people here have supported the project plans with hard cash, with the feeling that another viable film manufacturer might be a good thing alround, maybe these backers might be allowed to have some input or at least make some comment onto what Ferrania decide ?

 

[afriman]

And once more (hopefully for the last time): it's not a question of expecting more from Film Ferrania than they are capable of. It's a question of urging them to be realistic about the targets they set for themselves. This is simply good advice we are giving, not because we feel superior in any way, but because it's something we have learned to be true, often in a hard way. Many years ago, I was a freelance scriptwriter in the corporate video industry. As a beginner trying to prove myself, I desperately wanted to please my clients at all costs, sometimes by agreeing to unrealistic deadlines. I soon learned what a fatal mistake that is. We don't want Film Ferrania to make the same mistake.

 

[railwayman3]

Precisely. It's striking how it's mainly people who are or have been involved in industries like film and video production, software, advertising etc. who are acutely aware of this. But the same holds true for the business world at large. A retailer considering whether they are going to stock the product of a small upstart company (which Film Ferrania is from their perspective) in a field that is not exactly profitable right now, will need to be convinced that that company is reliable in every way, not only regarding their quality control, but also their ability to deliver as promised, to communicate efficiently and to stand by their product by providing strong back-up. They can't be expected to be as tolerant and patient as we are. A "sh*t happens" attitude won't cut it.

Very true.....it might be fun to try to make bars of chocolate in my shed, and, with a lot of effort and time I could probably produce something edible. Perhaps my friends and family might even buy one or two to humour me and see it it's any good. OTOH, Tesco and Sainsburys might take a bit of convincing before they dropped Cadburys and Lindt in favour of my efforts.

It takes a lot more than enthusiasm to make a successful business, as I and many other people have learned in the past in the real world.

 

[afriman]

maybe these backers might be allowed to have some input or at least make some comment onto what Ferrania decide ?

Again, you are absolutely right. Once Film Ferrania operates in the "public domain", nobody who wants to criticize them, will ask themselves whether they are "entitled" to do so. Not only retailers and consumers, but the public at large are quick to form and spread opinions (both positive and negative) about companies -- and we all know how rapidly such perceptions spread in the digital age.

 

[flavio81]

No, infact they are almost 1 year behind schedule (?). Let's give them another time and maybe in 10 years they will produce the chromes...

They are behind schedule for reasons totally external to their control.

If you plan to make your film in 1 year, and start your project, but some months later the government decides to build a highway just next to your facilities, such highway cutting directly through your (dedicated) power and steam lines, is it your fault?

FILM Ferrania has posted many updates on the project process. If you take the time to read them all, you'll see the delays were mostly not their fault at all.

The only people who think that schedules are to be always met on time, and if that they're not met in time, it's always the fault of the project team, are the management types similar to the "Pointy Haired Boss" character on the Dilbert strip.

 

[flavio81]

You need to come and see me in London.
I'll introduce you to some people who mainly use film, young people and not so young.

Same here. Actually it appears there are more people getting into film these last 18 months. Two years ago i was going to be a professor of a film photography course in the most well known photography school here. At the end this didn't happen because of lack of enough people to start the course.

However this year it appears the course is reopening again, and this time it is attracting some interest. (I'm not involved with it anymore, however.)

 

[RattyMouse]

Unable to add to cart using USA shop.

 

[nbagno]

Unable to add to cart using USA shop.

Same here, nothing happens when I hit the red Pre-order button to add film to the cart

 

[Burninfilm]

No worries... even if you do manage to add anything to the cart, you'll likely be unable to log in (or stay logged in).

 

[trythis]

Also unable to add to cart. When clicking cart, some error comes up about the mysql server.

 

[klownshed]

Just checked and the countdown is still showing an hour to go here...

Perhaps the US shop opened earlier?

 

[Wallendo]

I doubt the current hiccoughs will make a long-term difference. Ferrania has not yet delivered final products and not yet promoted itself to the general public (although I am not sure how you really do that in 2017). Their efforts are well-known to APUGers and Kickstarter boosters and a few others only. What will matter is what happens in the future when their products are distributed to B&H, Freestyle, and other big players.

 

[Cholentpot]

Same here. Actually it appears there are more people getting into film these last 18 months. Two years ago i was going to be a professor of a film photography course in the most well known photography school here. At the end this didn't happen because of lack of enough people to start the course.

However this year it appears the course is reopening again, and this time it is attracting some interest. (I'm not involved with it anymore, however.)

I've been getting seasoned shooters back into film. People who thought that film is not made any more and can't be processed.

 

[trythis]

I emailed them and got this back:

We are in contact with the developers - they are working through the problems.

Sorry for the trouble, but it will be fixed ASAP.

Don't worry, we'll push all backers with coupons to the front of the queue regardless!

cheers,
The FILM Ferrania Team​

 

[Agulliver]

I supported the Kickstarter campaign.....and I still am not outraged or angry at the delays. Most of them were beyond Ferrania's control. And I don't see my donation as an investment...because it isn't an investment. With Kickstarter there is never any promise or even hint of getting a return on an investment....it's a donation.

And that donation was made knowing that they might not get off the ground...that I might be giving my money to something that never achieves it's goals...or which achieves them much slower than hoped.

Anyone going into this with open eyes surely saw that?

 

[railwayman3]

I supported the Kickstarter campaign.....and I still am not outraged or angry at the delays. Most of them were beyond Ferrania's control. And I don't see my donation as an investment...because it isn't an investment. With Kickstarter there is never any promise or even hint of getting a return on an investment....it's a donation.

And that donation was made knowing that they might not get off the ground...that I might be giving my money to something that never achieves it's goals...or which achieves them much slower than hoped.

Anyone going into this with open eyes surely saw that?

Absolutely, and we want it to succeed and turn into a viable long-term business, that's why we donated. I have to say that I would not have invested any worthwhile amount of money in this, or most Kickstarter projects....they are not a regulated investment in any way; if you wish to make a public offer of any investment here in the UK, the rules and costs can be prohibitive. I would expect a minimum cost of fees and charges to be in the tens of thousands of pounds at the present time before a penny could be subscribed....then you have to start to convince hard-headed investors to even consider an unknown proposal or prospect.

But some of the posters here seem to think that Ferrania can do no wrong and that it is sacrilage if anyone offers any comment which such posters might not agree with.

 

[bvy]

Ruh-roh.

We apologize - after opening the shop early to select Kickstarter Backers, our site was overwhelmed. We are in the process of upgrading to a custom server solution and we will send out an email to everyone on our list when it is ready.