Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

[Photo Engineer]

After nearly four days without power in freezing weather, and a week without internet service, we still have no phone service. Roads are filled with debris and there are few traffic lights. And here you have posted 5 pages of delightful nonsense. Quack.

PE

 

[klownshed]

The people for whom the delay is of most importance are the ones being roundly criticised. Let's face it, for everybody else the delay is of little consequence.

Any kickstarter investment is inherently risky. Any reward, however late, is a bonus. Many funded Kinstarter projects result in total failure.

Success was never guaranteed.

By all means share your thoughts and Ferrania should not be immune to criticism, but all this talk of losing faith and trust being broken? A degree of perspective should be excersided here.

People are getting their knickers in a twist over having to wait an extra 48 hours before they can order a roll of film. That just a few weeks ago didn't ever seem likely for a revival.

If and when Ferrania finally succeed in producing film and honouring the kickstarter rewards it will be a minor miracle. The rewards couldn't be and never were guaranteed.

It's obviously disappointing to see so many delays, but this shouldn't be the straw that broke the camel's back.

Patience is the major commodity that seems in short supply around here.

 

[Prest_400]

After nearly four days without power in freezing weather, and a week without internet service, we still have no phone service. Roads are filled with debris and there are few traffic lights. And here you have posted 5 pages of delightful nonsense. Quack.

PE

Barn day to day: Just can imagine 10 guys all arguing about some other issues while PE is mixing up an emulsion. "Thread up that Jumbo damnit". But all of them are arguing whether the Magenta is so.

Like Dave explaine, Giuseppe rose his finger and said: We're not arguing about how to make film anymore.

 

[Cholentpot]

After nearly four days without power in freezing weather, and a week without internet service, we still have no phone service. Roads are filled with debris and there are few traffic lights. And here you have posted 5 pages of delightful nonsense. Quack.

PE

RABBIT SEASON!

Also, Kodak makes some awesome beets out at the converted plant.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

People are getting their knickers in a twist over having to wait an extra 48 hours before they can order a roll of film. That just a few weeks ago didn't ever seem likely for a revival.

When I visited the factory back in December, I sat in on a staff meeting regarding the very first 30m coating run (the one with the "bubbles" that produced the horse picture you see on our site).

The conversation was fully in Italian, of course, and quite animated. It began to escalate until Beppe, sitting silently in a corner, raised his hand...

The room went quiet and Beppe made a short statement. For a few minutes more, everyone stayed silent, until I just HAD to know what he said.

Nicola translated for me: "Beppe said we should take a minute to acknowledge that instead of arguing about how to fix machines and other equipment, we were now arguing about how to fix the actual film."

So, yeah - a 48 hour delay sucks (I was furious, to be frank), but it's a very different kind of suck...

(Sorry Pres_400 - seems I was writing this at the same time you were posting!)

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, our newest car is a 2014 Fiat 500. Designed in Italy, parts made in various places, car assembled in Mexico.
It is a fantastic car. Other than one small problem that was quickly fixed under warranty, no problems whatsoever, and it is a blast to drive. Comfortable, fuel efficient, remarkably spacious and well supported by a helpful dealer.
Way different than the FIATS around here in the 1970s.
And I always heard that it stood for "Fix It Again Tony".

 

[pbromaghin]

About 15 years ago the software company where I worked suddenly convened a meeting of everybody involved in product development - about 200 developers and QA. The first thing the EVP of product development did was to read aloud a letter from a long-time customer who had agreed to install and run the BETA version of our next upgrade. Basically, the product sucked so badly that it cost them over a million dollars in rework and delay. He let that sink in for a bit. From that point and for the next 3 months, all other work was stopped, all vacations were cancelled, and we spent the 3 months testing and fixing, testing and fixing, until the product was working as advertised.

This was a brick-and-mortar software company that had been making the same basic product for 15 years. It's difficult for me to get all bent out of shape that Ferrania can't keep an ambitious schedule while doing something that has pretty much never been done before.

 

[railwayman3]

FWIW, our newest car is a 2014 Fiat 500. Designed in Italy, parts made in various places, car assembled in Mexico.
It is a fantastic car. Other than one small problem that was quickly fixed under warranty, no problems whatsoever, and it is a blast to drive. Comfortable, fuel efficient, remarkably spacious and well supported by a helpful dealer.
Way different than the FIATS around here in the 1970s.
And I always heard that it stood for "Fix It Again Tony".

Indeed, there are few modern "bad" cars. Remember the rear-engine Skodas from the 1960's.....my daughter has a 14 y.o. Skoda Octavia diesel, bought new, 100% reliable, with just normal annual services, occasional brakes, tyres and one battery. Stands out in all weather, starts and runs like a dream.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Many years ago, I was asked at a major international Kodak conference, how long it would take to redesign some software we used for emulsion making. I said, "with the present budget and manning it will take about 5 years". The head honcho said "you have 3". I replied "ok, we will do it in 3". Everyone laughed and I was the butt of many jokes for this, but my point was missed. I continued by saying that we would sacrifice quality and documentation in this rush. If you rush, the first thing to suffer are those two.

Same here.

PE

 

[fdonadio]

Definitely Made-in-Italy, bought in the UK. Long before any US involvement. I just listed the faults in the first week.....the rust, leaking windows and the splitting seats followed within the year. By its 3rd Birthday, the car accommodated hens in a farmer's field. All 100% true, sorry.

We have Fiat cars made in Brazil. They are good cars. Not the best, but still very good.

In Brazil, they focus on compacts and overall cheaper models.

 

[Berri]

People are getting their knickers in a twist over having to wait an extra 48 hours before they can order a roll of film.

Well, no. It's not that, infact I am not planning to buy P30 any time soon since I mainly shoot colour. I don't like when people make a lot to noise and nothing happens. I will repeat this over and over, there was no need to have a countdown especially if you end up setting it back. It doesn't look very professional, it is something I would expect to find in the lomography site, no offense.
I hope they won't have to set the clock back again.

 

[flavio81]

Many years ago, I was asked at a major international Kodak conference, how long it would take to redesign some software we used for emulsion making. I said, "with the present budget and manning it will take about 5 years". The head honcho said "you have 3". I replied "ok, we will do it in 3". Everyone laughed and I was the butt of many jokes for this, but my point was missed. I continued by saying that we would sacrifice quality and documentation in this rush. If you rush, the first thing to suffer are those two.

Same here.

PE

+10000000

As a software engineer, i can totally relate to this.
And every engineer can totally relate to this.

Engineering tasks need to be given enough time if you want them to work out right.

No point in trying to hurry up the nice people at FILM Ferrania. They are already motivated and working as hard and as fast as they can.

 

[Nzoomed]

People are getting their knickers in a twist over having to wait an extra 48 hours before they can order a roll of film. That just a few weeks ago didn't ever seem likely for a revival.

If and when Ferrania finally succeed in producing film and honouring the kickstarter rewards it will be a minor miracle. The rewards couldn't be and never were guaranteed.

It's obviously disappointing to see so many delays, but this shouldn't be the straw that broke the camel's back.

Patience is the major commodity that seems in short supply around here.

Couldnt agree more, and at the end of the day, this is demonstrating to the world that there is another manufacturer of film operating once more and with a new film to the market.

Not only will P30 generate interest, but its giving Ferrania some profit for the first time!

 

[afriman]

People are getting their knickers in a twist over having to wait an extra 48 hours before they can order a roll of film.

Patience is the major commodity that seems in short supply around here.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people can persist in reading what they think is being said rather than paying a little more attention in order to see what is actually being said. If you think it's about the fact of there having been a delay and that we are whining about having to wait another 48 hours, you have totally missed the point. If you look again at what Berri, railwayman3, cholentpot, twelvetone12, myself and others have repeatedly tried to make clear, you will realize that our concern is about something totally different, something we know from experience to be of vital importance, especially for a company at the vulnerable stage where Film Ferrania is now. Never have we criticized or questioned the fantastic work they are doing in reviving these products. I am not going to spoon-feed you by repeating here what has been said numerous times. Our criticism has consistently meant to be helpful. We want Film Ferrania to be a success story as much as everybody else. It is particularly disappointing that the Film Ferrania representative either did not see that or simply did not regard our well-meant observations as important enough. That is not the way to begin establishing healthy customer relationships.

 

[Prof_Pixel]

Our criticism has consistently meant to be helpful..

A little 'tough love', eh?

 

[swchris]

In the UK there's a joke that FIAT stands for "Fix It Again Tomorrow"... they don't have the best reputation

Similarly, in Germany there's a joke that FIAT stands for "Fehler In Allen Teilen" (flaws in all parts).

But, from all persons I know which are driving a FIAT, I didn't hear anything bad about their cars. I've heard more complaints about VW cars in my circle of friends...

 

[flavio81]

Similarly, in Germany there's a joke that FIAT stands for "Fehler In Allen Teilen" (flaws in all parts).

But, from all persons I know which are driving a FIAT, I didn't hear anything bad about their cars. I've heard more complaints about VW cars in my circle of friends...

I wonder if there are also some other german jokes on the BMW and AUDI acronyms...!

 

[Cholentpot]

A little 'tough love', eh?

Maybe these Continental Fellas ain't as thin skinned as some think. Shouting is saying 'I love you' in Italian. So is arguing...and shouting...and arguing and shouting.

It's a lively culture.

 

[Cholentpot]

I wonder if there are also some other german jokes on the BMW and AUDI acronyms...!

Big Money Waste

 

[fdonadio]

Similarly, in Germany there's a joke that FIAT stands for "Fehler In Allen Teilen" (flaws in all parts).

In Brazil: "Fui Iludido, Agora é Tarde" (I've been deceived, now it's too late).

 

[1L6E6VHF]

After nearly four days without power in freezing weather, and a week without internet service, we still have no phone service. Roads are filled with debris and there are few traffic lights. And here you have posted 5 pages of delightful nonsense. Quack.

PE

Sorry for your miserable week, PE.

I'm glad you're okay (I say this because, in another discussion string, we had a very active user suddenly stop posting. Someone in his area asked neighbors, who told him our friend had passed away - on his bed, next to his laptop computer - with our string on the screen).

 

[bvy]

In Brazil: "Fui Iludido, Agora é Tarde" (I've been deceived, now it's too late).

Well, this is interesting. I wonder what the French have?

 

[ericdan]

Big Money Waste

No, BMW is actually "Busen muessen wackeln". Not sure about AUDI

 

[klownshed]

It never ceases to amaze me how some people can persist in reading what they think is being said rather than paying a little more attention in order to see what is actually being said. If you think it's about the fact of there having been a delay and that we are whining about having to wait another 48 hours, you have totally missed the point. If you look again at what Berri, railwayman3, cholentpot, twelvetone12, myself and others have repeatedly tried to make clear, you will realize that our concern is about something totally different, something we know from experience to be of vital importance, especially for a company at the vulnerable stage where Film Ferrania is now. Never have we criticized or questioned the fantastic work they are doing in reviving these products. I am not going to spoon-feed you by repeating here what has been said numerous times. Our criticism has consistently meant to be helpful. We want Film Ferrania to be a success story as much as everybody else. It is particularly disappointing that the Film Ferrania representative either did not see that or simply did not regard our well-meant observations as important enough. That is not the way to begin establishing healthy customer relationships.

"It never ceases to amaze me how" hypocritical and patronising people can be.

Your (plural) 'criticism' is relentless. You have collectively repeated yourselves ad nauseum. Sure the timer was a bit silly, but criticising Ferrania for risking customer relations is totally over reacting. They have started this endeavour under manned and under funded. It's not a Silicon Valley startup with $Billions in venture capitol funding.

You think you know better and terms such as 'spoon feed' show your arrogance and misplaced sense of superiority. You hide behind pseudonyms and moan and complain consistently rehashing the same thing over and over again.

In my work suppliers are frequently missing agreed delivery dates by 48 hours or more. Companies far bigger and less Italian than Ferrania. Sh*t happens.

Yes. Ferrania have made mistakes along the way. Yes the counter was a bit silly but it's just a bit of frivolous marketing. How many people outside of this thread do you think noticed that the counter changed? I'd bet not many. I wouldn't have noticed if people didn't keep banging on about it.

A mistake, sure, an indication that Ferrania don't care about customer relations because they chose not to accept advice from an anonymous bloke on the internet? Really?

My whole point is that those of you that have gotten your knickers in a twist are totally over reacting. You have no entitlement to expect more than they have delivered. You have no right to tell them how they should communicate. And if they were to take advice, why should they listen to you?

It's not like a government spending many millions on a new IT system for the NHS that goes way over budget and way beyond its deadline before eventually being scrapped.

Worst case scenario for Film Ferrania is that some film doesn't get made and some backers don't get a roll.

Perspective.

 

[railwayman3]

"It never ceases to amaze me how" hypocritical and patronising people can be.

Your (plural) 'criticism' is relentless. You have collectively repeated yourselves ad nauseum. Sure the timer was a bit silly, but criticising Ferrania for risking customer relations is totally over reacting. They have started this endeavour under manned and under funded. It's not a Silicon Valley startup with $Billions in venture capitol funding.

You think you know better and terms such as 'spoon feed' show your arrogance and misplaced sense of superiority. You hide behind pseudonyms and moan and complain consistently rehashing the same thing over and over again.

In my work suppliers are frequently missing agreed delivery dates by 48 hours or more. Companies far bigger and less Italian than Ferrania. Sh*t happens.

Yes. Ferrania have made mistakes along the way. Yes the counter was a bit silly but it's just a bit of frivolous marketing. How many people outside of this thread do you think noticed that the counter changed? I'd bet not many. I wouldn't have noticed if people didn't keep banging on about it.

A mistake, sure, an indication that Ferrania don't care about customer relations because they chose not to accept advice from an anonymous bloke on the internet? Really?

My whole point is that those of you that have gotten your knickers in a twist are totally over reacting. You have no entitlement to expect more than they have delivered. You have no right to tell them how they should communicate. And if they were to take advice, why should they listen to you?

It's not like a government spending many millions on a new IT system for the NHS that goes way over budget and way beyond its deadline before eventually being scrapped.

Worst case scenario for Film Ferrania is that some film doesn't get made and some backers don't get a roll.

Perspective.

No one has their knickers in a twist, and everyone admires the folk at Ferrania for producing film against all odds. The point, which you keep missing, is that, to avoid a worse case scenario, they have to sell the product....and in quantities many times more than a few of we cranky enthusiasts buying half-a-dozen rolls to try out ( maybe, before we go back to our trusted Kodak and Ilford, etc., which we can order online and have delivered tomorrow). They have to convince serious professional still and movie makers that they are a reliable business with a top-quality product. If I'm an indie film-maker, I'll probably rely on digital anyway (costs and convenience), but, if I believe that film will give me a better result, I've got to convince my own backers and accountants....then, having done that, do I tell them, I'm not going to use the regular Kodak film, which the camera guys and labs understand and trust, I'm going to use some stuff from Italy which a few guys make using salvaged equipment make in an old factory which 3m abandoned years ago (sorry, Ferrania, that's not directed at you, it's at the posters here who don't read properly, then jump to conclusions). It's a massive task yet.