Harman Photo cryptic announcement/teaser

[Ballinderry-Michael]

So I don't think it was unreasonable to doubt the authenticity of this.

It became unreasonable on balance from posts 28 and 76, clearly unreasonable from post 124 and blindingly obviously unreasonable from post 138. Mind you, following the thread was hampered by the trolling posts.

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks both for #474 and #475. I just hope that whatever is announced can be read about by "normal" means i.e. on the HarmanPhoto site

I just get concerned about the trend of promoting social media as the main means if not the sole means of obtaining news. It certainly seems to be the Harman preferred route

pentaxuser

 

[Helge]

The wires are really crossed somewhere...

On the 1st of December we will get to know the final date when they will tell us when the announcement will be.

Just unfollow them. No reason to reward that kind of thing.

It better be something completely amazing, like an affordable high quality scanner, or colour film, or a complete suite of colour development chemistry and tools, to even slightly make up for this.

A halfhearted film camera, when we already have plenty or something similarly lame would be a wet diaper in the face of the public.

 

[0x001688936CA08]

...

It better be something completely amazing, like an affordable high quality scanner, or colour film, or a complete suite of colour development chemistry and tools, to even slightly make up for this.

...

Make up for what? Announcing they're bringing a new product to market in the future? They could also do nothing and make no announcement, but I'd rather have an unnecessarily long hype campaign and the potential for something great. Harman don't owe me anything "to make up for this".

 

[Helge]

Make up for what? Announcing they're bringing a new product to market in the future? They could also do nothing and make no announcement, but I'd rather have an unnecessarily long hype campaign and the potential for something great. Harman don't owe me anything "to make up for this".

We were excited to hear what they’ve teased for a month, and then we are told it’ll be another month.
That is pretty stupid any way you look at it.
No one “owes” anyone anything in marketing, but there is such a thing as common decency and showing sympathy towards your audience.

 

[snusmumriken]

We were excited to hear what they’ve teased for a month, and then we are told it’ll be another month.
That is pretty stupid any way you look at it.
No one “owes” anyone anything in marketing, but there is such a thing as common decency and showing sympathy towards your audience.

Do you feel that way about pregnancy?

 

[Helge]

Do you feel that way about pregancy?

You have a pretty good idea that something is going to happen within nine months. And there is no willful teasing and deceiving from biology.

 

[koraks]

And there is no willful teasing and deceiving from biology.

No to take this too far off-topic, but the antecedents to conception sometimes involve a massive amount of willful teasing. I can only hope you've been at some point privy to this pleasure.

 

[Ballinderry-Michael]

As off-topic diversions go, this one is a relief from some of the nonsense in the thread so far. It promises the mileage for the next four weeks. Keep it up.

 

[Helge]

No to take this too far off-topic, but the antecedents to conception sometimes involve a massive amount of willful teasing. I can only hope you've been at some point privy to this pleasure.

All the time buddy.
Never over a period of two months though.
It was pregnancy that was mentioned as a parable, which is usually the end result, not the antecedent.

 

[Agulliver]

The only thing that may not be as fortuitous is a product launch this time of year. In my mind, around March or April would have been smarter, which is the season when people pick up their cameras en masse. On the other hand, why miss out on a couple of months' worth of sales only to delay to spring season? And this way, they get the holiday season as a nice head start.

Yeah I think they might be hoping to shift a lot of this product in the run up to Christmas. If it is something small that one can buy in units of 1, 3, 5, 10, 20....they might well sell a lot as Christmas presents. If it really is a film, even if it's similar cost to Kodak film it's not going to be difficult for people to buy one or a three pack as a Christmas present for a loved one. And us lot might just buy bricks if that's what it turns out to be.

On the 1st of December will get to know the final date when they will tell us when the announcement will be.

Just unfollow them. No reason to reward that kind of thing.

It better be something completely amazing, like an affordable high quality scanner, or colour film, or a complete suite of colour development chemistry and tools, to even slightly make up for this.

A halfhearted film camera, when we already have plenty or something similarly lame would be a wet diaper in the face of the public.

Make up for what? This is just a mediocre social media campaign. Nobody has been damaged. Nobody has lost any money.

If it is upsetting you, then yes...unfollow them. But they owe none of us anything. There is nothing to "make up" for.

We are film photographers....surely we have some patience?

Looking at the Instagram feed today, someone has asked if they're joining forces with Fuji to make colour film And they reply "You are completely wrong" but with a big smiley so who knows.

In response to a suggestion that this is a discontinued product from the past "nothing we've previously discontinued".

What is noticeable is that they are interacting a lot more with people as of yesterday....and they are specifically not responding to any posts speculating this might be colour film. Except for the one user guessing a tie-up with FujiFilm.

 

[foc]

I'll get some fresh C41 chenistry . . . . . . . .

Ian

Is that a hint, Ian?

 

[Helge]

Yeah I think they might be hoping to shift a lot of this product in the run up to Christmas. If it is something small that one can buy in units of 1, 3, 5, 10, 20....they might well sell a lot as Christmas presents. If it really is a film, even if it's similar cost to Kodak film it's not going to be difficult for people to buy one or a three pack as a Christmas present for a loved one. And us lot might just buy bricks if that's what it turns out to be.



Make up for what? This is just a mediocre social media campaign. Nobody has been damaged. Nobody has lost any money.

If it is upsetting you, then yes...unfollow them. But they owe none of us anything. There is nothing to "make up" for.

We are film photographers....surely we have some patience?

Looking at the Instagram feed today, someone has asked if they're joining forces with Fuji to make colour film And they reply "You are completely wrong" but with a big smiley so who knows.

In response to a suggestion that this is a discontinued product from the past "nothing we've previously discontinued".

What is noticeable is that they are interacting a lot more with people as of yesterday....and they are specifically not responding to any posts speculating this might be colour film. Except for the one user guessing a tie-up with FujiFilm.

Make up for irritating us, wasting our time and quite possibly overselling the product.
Very few products can live up to that kind of drawn out tease.

If you are fine with it, then just don’t reply, shrug and move on to a discussion you deem worthwhile.

 

[BobD]

On 3 Nov 2023 Harman Technology registered the trademark HARMAN PHOENIX

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00003943274

I saw an online post stating that a patent was registered describing what it is but I haven't been able to find such a patent yet.

 

[Agulliver]

Make up for irritating us, wasting our time and quite possibly overselling the product.
Very few products can live up that kind of drawn out tease.

If you are fine with it, then just don’t reply, shrug and move on to a discussion you deem worthwhile.

It is entirely up to each individual how much time they invest in this. If you feel it's wasted your time, you've only yourself to blame for allowing your time to be wasted. That is not Harman's fault. If you find it very irritating, then don't participate.

Harman really don't owe us anything in recompense for a less than stellar social media campaign.

On 3 Nov 2023 Harman Technology registered the trademark HARMAN PHOENIX

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00003943274

They filed it on 8 August 2023. I think I've stated this five times in this very thread. And at least one other poster has linked to it before too.


No wonder we're seen as grumpy old curmudgeons.

 

[MCB18]

They filed it on 8 August 2023. I think I've stated this five times in this very thread. And at least one other poster has linked to it before too.

I think this thread has gotten to that stage where most people skim the first couple pages, but then skip to the last post and add any information that they didn’t see while skimming.

 

[Helge]

It is entirely up to each individual how much time they invest in this. If you feel it's wasted your time, you've only yourself to blame for allowing your time to be wasted. That is not Harman's fault. If you find it very irritating, then don't participate.

Harman really don't owe us anything in recompense for a less than stellar social media campaign.

They owe us a good product.
That kind of relativistic surface functionalism is popular among certain hardline liberalists.
By that logic all seduction is only one way, and the seductee only a fool if they are led astray, no matter the actions of the seducer.

It’s not that I personally lost a lot or sleep or time over this.
It’s the cumulative waste of time and energy from everybody in this thread and elsewhere, that this kind of marketing lacks sympathy for.

 

[Ian Grant]

Is that a hint, Ian?

It's a gut feeling based on a number of factors, and hints. Two videos, one with a brief mention that Harman can't use the Ilford name on a colour film, the other talking about multi million pounds worth of investment, The Harmanphoto new website, the Harman Phoenix trade name registration, the marketing of the Grey scale Phoenix logo, at the beginning of this thread I said it would burst into colour, and it did yesterday. I'd expect that logo to change into a fuller range of colours.

I suspect that due to the agreements for Harman using the Ilord brand name that includes the IlfordPhoto,website. So it would be problematic listing a Colour film on it, and Ilford Imaging own the Ilfocolor trade name.

Something not mentioned is Ilford/Harman shut-down their coating line for upgrades recently. When I went on an Ilford factory tour in 2007 or 8 their coating line was controlled by an IBM XT running DOS, recent videos show that's no longer the case.

The coating head technology Ilford use was designed and Patented by them, on that factory tour I was in Simon Galley's group, he told us that Kodak and some other companies licensed that technology from them.

So yes the hints are all out there,

Ian

 

[BobD]

I think I've stated this five times in this very thread.

I don't read your posts.

 

[Helge]

I'll get some fresh C41 chenistry . . . . . . . .

Ian

RA4 paper would make me shut up entirely. That would truly be worth the hoopla.

 

[koraks]

RA4 paper would make me shut up entirely. That would truly be worth the hoopla.

There's at least volume there. But it'll be very difficult to gain any market share in that segment, especially because Harman has no distribution channel that's geared to serve such labs.
'Analog' RA4 printing is a tiny niche and wouldn't make any business sense for them to get into.

 

[Helge]

It's a gut feeling based on a number of factors, and hints. Two videos, one with a brief mention that Harman can't use the Ilford name on a colour film, the other talking about multi million pounds worth of investment, The Harmanphoto new website, the Harman Phoenix trade name registration, the marketing of the Grey scale Phoenix logo, at the beginning of this thread I said it would burst into colour, and it did yesterday. I'd expect that logo to change into a fuller range of colours.

Orange is the colour of fire that the Phoenix dives into to get reborn. I’d be surprised to see it in a rainbow of colours.

 

[Helge]

There's at least volume there. But it'll be very difficult to gain any market share in that segment, especially because Harman has no distribution channel that's geared to serve such labs.
'Analog' RA4 printing is a tiny niche and wouldn't make any business sense for them to get into.

Ilford has been very good at pushing printing. But you are probably right.

 

[Ian Grant]

There are examples here @Helge

Ian

 

[koraks]

Ilford has been very good at pushing printing. But you are probably right.

The more parties that push printing, the better. There's a massive untapped potential of photographers who never or rarely print their work, and I'm personally convinced they're missing out on much of the fun and satisfaction because of it.