Harman Photo cryptic announcement/teaser

[Agulliver]

Over on Instagram in the comments for the latest orange Phoenix, Harman have confirmed this is not a collaboration with any other company. They were specifically asked if this was a collaboration with FujiFilm or Film Ferrania.

 

[mshchem]

On 3 Nov 2023 Harman Technology registered the trademark HARMAN PHOENIX

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00003943274

I saw an online post stating that a patent was registered describing what it is but I haven't been able to find such a patent yet.

I opened the list of goods on this link. It lists unexposed film, plates, colour film, chemicals, sensitizers on and on. It does mention COLOUR FILM. No mention of color TVs or VHS tapes thank goodness!!

 

[pentaxuser]

Their existing websites (Harman Tech and Ilford) didn't link to any of the new stuff, or even mention it.

So I don't think it was unreasonable to doubt the authenticity of this. And I still say it looks pretty ham-fisted as a genuine launch, while it would have been quite cool as a hoax.

Nor did I. However we have clearly reached an almost complete polarisation on this matter where some believe that anyone entertaining any doubts makes said member look stupid/thick with no concessions given to any reasonable doubt possible

There has crept in as bad an "edge" in this thread as I have seen for a long time

pentaxuser

 

[Agulliver]

There is a *very* clear digital paper trail leading from the Harman Phoenix right to the door at Mobberly HQ.

It's incontrovertible.

 

[Arcadia4]

It's a gut feeling based on a number of factors, and hints. Two videos, one with a brief mention that Harman can't use the Ilford name on a colour film, the other talking about multi million pounds worth of investment, The Harmanphoto new website, the Harman Phoenix trade name registration, the marketing of the Grey scale Phoenix logo, at the beginning of this thread I said it would burst into colour, and it did yesterday. I'd expect that logo to change into a fuller range of colours.

I suspect that due to the agreements for Harman using the Ilord brand name that includes the IlfordPhoto,website. So it would be problematic listing a Colour film on it, and Ilford Imaging own the Ilfocolor trade name.

Something not mentioned is Ilford/Harman shut-down their coating line for upgrades recently. When I went on an Ilford factory tour in 2007 or 8 their coating line was controlled by an IBM XT running DOS, recent videos show that's no longer the case.

The coating head technology Ilford use was designed and Patented by them, on that factory tour I was in Simon Galley's group, he told us that Kodak and some other companies licensed that technology from them.

So yes the hints are all out there,

Ian

Yes I think theyve said a lot of the investment has been to bring the existing line management uptodate. Example;

World-leading Ilford Photo teams up with Tees firm to track its 35mm film production - Tees Business

Now that everyone with a smartphone has a camera in their pocket, you might find it surprising that black and white film is still being made in the UK.

teesbusiness.co.uk

 

[foc]

It's a gut feeling based on a number of factors, and hints. Two videos, one with a brief mention that Harman can't use the Ilford name on a colour film, the other talking about multi million pounds worth of investment, The Harmanphoto new website, the Harman Phoenix trade name registration, the marketing of the Grey scale Phoenix logo, at the beginning of this thread I said it would burst into colour, and it did yesterday. I'd expect that logo to change into a fuller range of colours.

I suspect that due to the agreements for Harman using the Ilord brand name that includes the IlfordPhoto,website. So it would be problematic listing a Colour film on it, and Ilford Imaging own the Ilfocolor trade name.

Something not mentioned is Ilford/Harman shut-down their coating line for upgrades recently. When I went on an Ilford factory tour in 2007 or 8 their coating line was controlled by an IBM XT running DOS, recent videos show that's no longer the case.

The coating head technology Ilford use was designed and Patented by them, on that factory tour I was in Simon Galley's group, he told us that Kodak and some other companies licensed that technology from them.

So yes the hints are all out there,

Ian

Thank you Ian, for the detailed response. I hope is it Harmancolor C41 film.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Do you feel that way about pregancy [sic] pregnancy?

Personally I have not tried it. But from what I hear, everything works out eventually.

 

[warden]

Thank you Ian, for the detailed response. I hope is it Harmancolor C41 film.

Me too. A new C41 that performs differently than the Kodak products would be an incredible achievement for Harman and cause for much celebration. Here's hoping!

 

[snusmumriken]

Personally I have not tried it. But from what I hear, everything works out eventually.

Pregacy is where illiteracy leads.

It doesn't always work out, of course; but when it does, the outcome justifies the wait and anticipation. I have faith that Harman will live up to expectations. As far as I'm concerned, they can almost do no wrong.

 

[brbo]

C-41 kinda looks obvious, considering how the marketing "campaign" is (not) going...

Personally, I'm not that thrilled about that. I don't believe Harman can come up with a film that will be better or on same level as Kodak consumer C-41 films. Maybe it can play in Inoviscoat (and Ferrania) league? That would actually explain their marketing which is totally separated from "Ilford" name (@ilfordphoto doesn't even follow @harmanphoto). Ilford stands for top notch films. They probably don't want to soil that name with C-41 films that will surely be inferior to Kodak's.

Sooo... I'm still hoping it's not a C-41 film (I'll gladly take it, though!), but a peel-apart pack film (bw and/or colour). Or a colour printing material.

 

[Supercine]

If it is C41 then it’s in house with no outside collaboration (as per reports on IG). So no Fuji or Ferrania links…
That seems like one hell of a big ask! That said, Harman/Ilford are up there with the best in the film manufacturing business. Time will tell.

 

[ChrisGalway]

An ISO200 colour transparency film complete with a decent E6 processing chemistry kit? Now that would be welcome!

 

[pentaxuser]

Me too. A new C41 that performs differently than the Kodak products would be an incredible achievement for Harman and cause for much celebration. Here's hoping!

I'd settle for a new C41 that works out the same as Kodak but was cheaper

pentaxuser

 

[Helge]

E6 is simpler than C41. Would be a sick burn if Harman made it before Ferrania.

I love Ilfords B&W offering too, as most people do, but it’s almost too good. There isn’t really space for something new. A better IR film perhaps?

 

[armadsen]

If it’s color film (huge if), I’d love it if it meant Ilford could eventually take over making Fuji’s formulas so Velvia and Provia don’t die when Fuji inevitably decides to stop making film altogether (something they’ve reportedly already done). There’s precedent for that with Acros II.

But they’d have to prove that they’re up to the task of making super high quality color film, on the level of Kodak and Fuji, first.

 

[0x001688936CA08]

They owe us a good product.
That kind of relativistic surface functionalism is popular among certain hardline liberalists.

Ridiculous word salad aside… they don’t owe anyone anything, except their employees and shareholders.

 

[mshchem]

The longer this drags out, the more I think that it will be something nice.

 

[Helge]

Ridiculous word salad aside… they don’t owe anyone anything, except their employees and shareholders.

In that case no one owes anyone anything.
The customers are what makes Ilford/Harman. We are everything. They owe us all.
I’ll take a good salad over a bad beef any day.

 

[Minolta93]

I'm just going to choose to believe it'll be a line of color films, including an inexpensive 25ISO slide film, 1600 speed C41 film, and a 400 speed slide offering as well as a partnership with Pentax to offer a new SLR with eye tracking autofocus, a built in motor winder, a user-selectable half-frame mask, between frame data printing, a quartz date imprinter, a stabilized film transport, and a line of image stabilized lenses so you can get up to 6 stops of stabilization in total. And also a novelty keychain rubber duck

 

[mshchem]

I'm just going to choose to believe it'll be a line of color films, including an inexpensive 25ISO slide film, 1600 speed C41 film, and a 400 speed slide offering as well as a partnership with Pentax to offer a new SLR with eye tracking autofocus, a built in motor winder, a user-selectable half-frame mask, between frame data printing, a quartz date imprinter, a stabilized film transport, and a line of image stabilized lenses so you can get up to 6 stops of stabilization in total. And also a novelty keychain rubber duck

That's an excellent summary. I think you forgot about the inertial guidance system

 

[pbromaghin]

If it’s color film (huge if), I’d love it if it meant Ilford could eventually take over making Fuji’s formulas so Velvia and Provia don’t die when Fuji inevitably decides to stop making film altogether (something they’ve reportedly already done). There’s precedent for that with Acros II.

But they’d have to prove that they’re up to the task of making super high quality color film, on the level of Kodak and Fuji, first.

Despite Aguliver in Post #502, I am beginning to suspect this may be the case - maybe they've bought the Fuji color film business.

 

[Dustin McAmera]

They're getting spam today at facebook.

 

[Agulliver]

Despite Aguliver in Post #502, I am beginning to suspect this may be the case - maybe they've bought the Fuji color film business.

Possible. They are careful with their words and deny working with FujiFilm or any other company. But that does not exclude them buying out (some of) Fuji's colour film production machinery and IP.....and manufacturing Harman Superia 400 in house. However, it would be most unlike FujiFilm or any Japanese business to do this.

But it remains a possibility. It's no less likely than Harman having mastered C41 production all on their own in a matter of months.

@Dustin McAmera there's currently a spate of spam affecting celebrity pages and business pages on Facebook. It's a shame because it makes following my favourite musicians and organisations more difficult. If I make a comment, chances are I'll get replies from fake "Brian May Personal" accounts or religious nuts trying to get me to join cults. Over on Instagram it's not reached this level in comments on posts but I fend off multiple accounts daily with the same 8 photos of an AI enhanced young woman claiming to be a 19 year old erotic model.

 

[pentaxuser]

Despite Aguliver in Post #502, I am beginning to suspect this may be the case - maybe they've bought the Fuji color film business.

You may be right but a number of questions arise for me at least. Where has the extra factory space come from? Admittedly it was some 15 years since my last visit but on the Mobberley site there didn't seem to be a lot of spare room and within the plant itself virtually none that might accommodate new lines to make colour film as well

Where has it found the colour expertise from when Kodak appears to be struggling to increase its production of C41 due to colour engineer shortage?

If everything including delivery to retailers worldwide will be ready on 1 Dec it is amazing that not a whiff of what was and is going on has got out. A fully produced and tested colour film much have involved several years of work and so many people that for no-one other than "those in the know" to have heard/let slip anything at all really does deserve the adjective amazing

pentaxuser

 

[Prest_400]

Despite Aguliver in Post #502, I am beginning to suspect this may be the case - maybe they've bought the Fuji color film business.

There are many nuances for a Fuji collaboration. It would be a big step up from current and previous arrangements which has been making Acros II and that Neopan CN chromogenic film that ended being UK only. Fuji seems fully focused and expanding on Instax but film production has many steps.
Components & Sensitization > Emulsion making > Coating > Finishing

In that hypothetical case, Fuji might have capacity emulsion making and the previous part; which is where a lot of the specificity happens. We again discussed the coating capacity of N.14 at Mobberley but who knows, Harman could be just picking the part that Fuji no longer has Capacity/Focus.

Until the next reveal it's pretty much just speculating; but a best case would be having Fuji quality with Ilford Harman interest and focus on the film market. They have been, after the 2005 receivership, the largest and most reliable manufacturer.