Durst CLS 1840 - Need help and advice :) New Darkroom build.

OP
OP

reneboehmer

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2024
Messages
92
Location
Austria
Format
Analog

I see, I'll have to see once the power supply is ready to be moved into the darkroom for further testing. But it doesn't look that complicated.
Thanks for the photos!
 
OP
OP

reneboehmer

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2024
Messages
92
Location
Austria
Format
Analog
Thank you again, Gary!
I am now, after gaining some more experience, more able to understand everything you have mentioned before. I have tripped the Kemo safety multiple times today. My friend and I are getting close.

I also finally figured that the lamps used are 120V. My enlarger came with a 750W one, but I'll switch to a 1000W one after the new power supply is done.
Have you tested how hot your Kemo gets after long darkroom sessions? I have read online that it's possible it might need active cooling when used over 1kW. I mounted mine to the metal housing of my enclosure and thought of adding some computer fan, in order to dissipate the heat. Well Ill measure the unit and if it doesn't go above 50-60C under normal load I won't do much besides the thermal paste.

One more question I've got for you is the following; Is the Kemo actually required? Is the only down sight to not having an idle mode lamp life?
 
OP
OP

reneboehmer

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2024
Messages
92
Location
Austria
Format
Analog

Dear Koraks thanks again for this insightful response!
I think, as you mentioned, it might be best to go with a segmented display. I'll see what I can get my hands on. I will post an update here once I found one that suits my needs.
 
OP
OP

reneboehmer

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2024
Messages
92
Location
Austria
Format
Analog
Update on my power supply build.

My friend Angelo and I started the build today. We found an old housing that is of high quality and perfectly suits our needs. I will have to laser cut or 3D print an adapter to fit the old Durst plug. I ordered all the parts with the idea in mind (well, actually my friends' idea) to fit them on one of them norm mounts for electrical installations. This has worked out nicely. We 3D printed some holders for the ESP32 and the relay board. This way, everything fits neatly into the box.
We started writing some simple code, thankfully my friend Angelo has some experience with this, and I didn't have to start from 0. We already did some sketchy tests with the lamp. I adhered to what Gary recommended and everything seems to work fine. Next time we will have to move to the darkroom in order to look at how the shutter and fan need to be wired up.

After that, I will start designing the timer and it's functions. I will most likely also switch the electrical up- and down movement of the focus and enlarger head to the timer in order to fully remove the huge original control unit from my tiny space. Derek, from Dektronics, has a really smart feature that displays the Color head filter settings, when dialing in the normal contrast numbers, in his printalyzer timer. I want to include that, an f-stop timer with fine increments, as well as a test strip mode. Maybe also some communication to my LED red light.

I am quite happy with the results thus far and will post and update once done. I'll also share all the links, code and so on collected on a webpage (my friend recommended github) for everyone to use. (If there is interest)

Thanks again for the continued support and lovely help you guys have provided thus far I appreciate it.
All the best and merry Christmas!

 

gary mulder

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
107
Format
4x5 Format
One more question I've got for you is the following; Is the Kemo actually required? Is the only down sight to not having an idle mode lamp life?

Your pictures look promising !
There are probably 1000 ways to solve a problem like this one. I only needed one. Can it be done better ? Certainly. My motivation to use the kemo was that it opens the possibility for incorporating a ZMPT101B if there was / is drift in print density. According tot information in the internet from Durst USA using the bulb at 117V instead of 120V prolongs the bulb live with 100%.
In the past I have worked on at least 10 EST1000 boxes. Al had multipull problems. Possible caused by the high inrush current.
 
OP
OP

reneboehmer

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2024
Messages
92
Location
Austria
Format
Analog

The lamp life, officially, is 300h (https://www.amazon.de/dp/B000J45AE8?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title).
Do you really think reducing the current by 3V will increase the lamp life to 600h? As far as I can see the lamps are to be used as specified by the manufacturer since the vapor cycle within the lamp is conceptualized for those specif operating conditions.

Were you trying to use the ZMPT101B for controlling the steadiness of the current supplied to the lamp?

As long as a clean RMS 120V measurement arrives at the bulb, there shouldn't be any changes in density, no? In my mind, flicker doesn't really matter since, as long as it's consistent flicker, the consistency of light output won't be affected. The only worry I have is: I phase cut 230Vrms to 120Vrms in order to use it with my 120V bulbs. That doesn't feel right. Wouldn't it be much better to use no phase cut and a 230V lamp (https://www.prolighting.de/lichttec...77-fep-240v-1000w-g-9-5-3200k-300h.html?gQT=0) ?

Can you explain the reasoning for this, I do not fully comprehend this yet.
 
OP
OP

reneboehmer

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2024
Messages
92
Location
Austria
Format
Analog
On another note,
The ISO 6846 for BNW paper sensitivity calls for a 3000k tungsten halogen light source. The lamps I found are 3200K. Does this make any difference in a practical setting. In theory, as far as I can tell, the 3200 should just release more visible light and more blue light. (Also more UV)
As far as I can tell, that ok for BNW. Can anyone specify what is critical for color enlargements?
 

gary mulder

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
107
Format
4x5 Format
Sadly we kan’t ask Jens Jensen why he claimed the prolonged bulb live. The only thing that interests me is that it worked for my color and BW with 8x10” Durst's the past 20 years. But you can setup your gear any way you see fit.
 
OP
OP

reneboehmer

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2024
Messages
92
Location
Austria
Format
Analog
Sadly we kan’t ask Jens Jensen why he claimed the prolonged bulb live. The only thing that interests me is that it worked for my color and BW with 8x10” Durst's the past 20 years. But you can setup your gear any way you see fit.
This is what I got out of chatgpt


Yes, reducing the voltage fed into a 120V halogen tungsten lamp to 117V will likely lengthen the lamp's life. The lifetime of halogen tungsten lamps, like other incandescent lamps, is highly sensitive to voltage. Even small reductions in voltage can result in significantly longer lifespans due to the physics of filament evaporation and thermal stress.

Here’s why:

  1. Reduced Filament Temperature: Lowering the voltage reduces the temperature of the tungsten filament. Since filament evaporation is a temperature-dependent process, a cooler filament will evaporate more slowly, extending the lamp's life.
  2. Exponential Impact on Lifespan: The relationship between voltage and lamp life is approximately exponential. A common rule of thumb is that for incandescent lamps, a 5% reduction in voltage can nearly double the lifespan.
  3. Trade-Offs:
    • Reduced Light Output: The light output of a halogen lamp decreases significantly with even small voltage reductions (approximately proportional to the voltage raised to the power of 3.5).
    • Color Temperature: The color temperature will also decrease, resulting in a slightly warmer (more yellow/orange) light.
 

koraks

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
21,581
Location
Europe
Format
Multi Format
The only worry I have is: I phase cut 230Vrms to 120Vrms in order to use it with my 120V bulbs. That doesn't feel right.

I don't see a problem with it from a perspective of the bulb, quality of the light etc.

Does this make any difference in a practical setting

Not meaningfully so.

Can anyone specify what is critical for color enlargements?

Consistency more so than the 200K difference in the temperatures you mention. You may see a difference in color balance going from a 3000K to a 3200K bulb with all other parameters kept the same. But you can print with the full gamut the paper, film and dichroic filters allow for with either bulb.
 
OP
OP

reneboehmer

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2024
Messages
92
Location
Austria
Format
Analog

Koraks,

thanks for this!
Well, then I'll continue as planned.
 

ic-racer

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
16,512
Location
USA
Format
Multi Format
Have you printed color before? A real issue would be a lamp that varies between 3200k and some other value during a string of identical prints or between test print and final. Otherwise. your color pack will account for the lamp with a constant K value.

I don't know about the device you are building, but the original Durst CLS1840 power supply was a pulse wave modulated system, but the lamp does not flicker, it maintains heat during the off part of the duty cycle.
 
OP
OP

reneboehmer

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2024
Messages
92
Location
Austria
Format
Analog

I have not done color printing, no, but I want to and therefor want to be sure. I will most likely rent a calibrated color meter from a local film production and meter the lamp's output.

The unit I am building is also using PWM to control the dimmer.
 

gary mulder

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
107
Format
4x5 Format
If is’s any reassurance the Durst CLS1000, CLS1840, Optimo and Optopa al drive a 120V bulb with a phase cut 120Vrms from 230Vrms
 
OP
OP

reneboehmer

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2024
Messages
92
Location
Austria
Format
Analog
If is’s any reassurance the Durst CLS1000, CLS1840, Optimo and Optopa al drive a 120V bulb with a phase cut 120Vrms from 230Vrms

Thanks again Gary! I am at peace with it now I'll update my progress here after Christmas
 
OP
OP

reneboehmer

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2024
Messages
92
Location
Austria
Format
Analog



Some more images for people of the future who might need them
The resistor on my shutter motor board looks cooked.
The shutter is just an off center pin on the motor, that fits into a slot on a piece of metal, that is mounted on a hinge.

I once had a really nice iris shutter that was in my Homrich VA250. That would've been a pleasant upgrade. Unfortunately, I don't have it anymore.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2176.jpg
    103.2 KB · Views: 92
OP
OP

reneboehmer

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2024
Messages
92
Location
Austria
Format
Analog
BTW, I uploaded the repair manual on ChatGPT and asked about the 120V output. Quite handy.

The EST 1000 generates 120V from a 230V input using a voltage stabilizer and thyristor-based phase control. Here's a summary of how the conversion is achieved based on the provided document:

  1. Voltage Stabilization Circuit:
    • The EST 1000 employs thyristors (Th1 and Th2) to regulate the output voltage.
    • It uses a feedback loop to compare the actual output voltage to a preset nominal value. This comparison generates a control voltage.
  2. RMS Conversion and Pulse Generation:
    • The actual voltage is measured, rectified, and fed into an RMS converter, which provides a stable representation of the AC voltage.
    • A comparator evaluates the difference between the measured voltage and the nominal target.
    • Based on this difference, a pulse generator creates the required firing pulses for the thyristors to control the voltage output.
  3. Phase-Angle Control:
    • The thyristors regulate the output by varying their conduction angle in each AC cycle. This effectively adjusts the RMS value of the AC output to achieve the desired 120V from the 230V input.
  4. Protection Mechanisms:
    • The circuit includes overload protection to cut the output voltage to 0V in case of excess current.
    • A soft-start mechanism gradually ramps up the voltage to avoid sudden surges that could shorten the lamp's lifespan.
  5. Adjustment and Calibration:
    • A potentiometer (P1) allows fine-tuning of the output to precisely reach 120V. Calibration must be done with a true RMS voltmeter to ensure accuracy.
This approach ensures a stable and precise 120V output suitable for the connected devices, even with fluctuations in the 230V input.
 

ic-racer

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
16,512
Location
USA
Format
Multi Format
Here is the shutter on my 2000. I wonder what Gary's looks like.
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…