Current experience with X-ray scanners - May 2022

[Nikon 2]

Going to Europe next year and don’t know if my film will survive those X-Ray machines

 

[Nikon 2]

I just returned from a 2-week trip from Billings, MT to Venice and Florence, Italy. On the way there I flew from Billings to Denver to Toronto to Frankfurt to Venice. On the way back it was Venice to Frankfurt to Denver to Billings. While I primarily used my phone to take photos, I took along my Minolta SRT-201 and 6 rolls of Ilford HP5+400 that I loaded from bulk. 4 of the canisters were Kalt brand and 2 were generic. All were metal. I planned to use the film camera for street photography and figured I would get what I get.

I do TSA-Pre and when going through Billings I asked for and received a hand inspection. I had the canisters in a ziploc bag and it was easy to see the film tongues from each one since I didn’t have them in plastic cans. They swabbed them and I was good to go. When I got to Frankfurt I was directed to immigration where they went though my paperwork and stamped my passport for a transit visa. There was some confusion about where I should go next to get to my gate and I ended up riding a tram to another terminal which, I guess, took me out of security so I had to go through it again when I arrived. They were not interested in hand inspecting anything BUT ME. I always go through the metal detector just fine but they didn’t have one so I had to go through the full body scanner while my film went through X-ray. I have an AMS800 implant which the metal detector doesn’t find but the body scanner did. I have no paperwork regarding the implant since it’s so small and I only wear a medical alert bracelet for it. They were not interested in any of that and took me aside and I received more physical contact than I have ever had from another guy. They sent me on my way.

In Italy I had the camera and an extra roll with me when I went to the museums and several of them, like the Uffuzi and San Marco, have you go through security which is an X-ray scan of your bag and a metal detector for you. No hand inspection due to the crowds.

On my return flight from Venice, in the turmoil of trying to stay with my group (I was on a university study abroad) I actually forgot to ask for a hand inspection so all the film went through the scanner. When I got to Denver I found that my flight to Billings was cancelled, supposedly due to weather. (This turned out to be untrue. It was snowing in Denver but I have flown through there many times in the winter and they just de-ice you and you go. What they did was, due to the current shortage of personnel, was to reallocate our plane to Palm Springs. They told us it was weather related so they they didn’t have to pay for our overnight stay in a hotel. I have filed a claim.) The next day I went through security (TSA-Pre) and ask for a hand inspection of my film. They took it away while my bag and I went through our scanners. They handed the zip-lock bag of film back to me and there was a bit of a kerfuffle over my carryon which they sent through the scanner about 3 times. The line was backing up and people were getting antsy. They finally gave me my bag and I moved into the outer area to put the film back into the bag. That’s when I noticed that one of the caps from a generic canister was loose in the bag. Sure enough, I could see the film. Sigh….

When I got home I developed the 3 rolls I’d shot, which included the now assuredly fogged one, in D76 stock. When I pulled them out of the wash I was surprised to find that the two that hadn’t been opened looked just fine. The one that was opened was fogged but only about the first half of the roll and even in that half I could still make out images. I guess the tightness of the roll on the spindle helped.

That’s my latest experience traveling with film and I’m looking forward to doing it again.

Thank you for your experience...!

 

[wiltw]

Going to Europe next year and don’t know if my film will survive those X-Ray machines

The issue is not so much the X-ray machines that have been in use for a long time, but the fact that CT scanners are being installed in airports all over the world in the Security going to gates (CT baggage scanners had been used for many years, too), and CT dosage (for medical purposes) is like about 100-400 X-ray scan, in terms of the radiation exposure.

Current experience with X-ray scanners - May 2022

were passengers asked to take laptops or other electronics out of the carry-on bags? Yes, and no liquids allowed, and basically just an old-fashioned scan line. Both times. Again, there's no point arguing it. Don't believe it if you don't want to.

www.photrio.com

Fortunately many airports have several Security scan areas, and not all of them are necessarily equipped with CT in lieu of X-ray scanners, even at airports reported to HAVE the new CT scanners!
If you are told that laptops and liquids can stay inside the bag, it is likely a CT scanner station...if laptops and liquids have to be removed from the carry=on, it is still the older X-ray scanner station.

While SOME CT scanners look sleek and 'futuristic',

NOT ALL of them look that way...

​

And while SOME airport security staff will comply with a request to allow a sandwich bag of film be 'hand inspected', other simply REFUSE such requests.​

And some past airports notorious for ignoring such requests, have in the past year changed that SOP and are complying!​

 

[wiltw]

Be aware that most non-US airlines are MUCH more restrictive in the SIZE and WEIGHT of carry-on baggage! Read the individual guidelines of EVERY airline you will be flying on, for that trip!!!

(I have over 40 years of international flying experience (including flights imposing such restrictions in the past two years), both for business and leisure, behind these words of wisdom.)

 

[fiddle]

I will also be going overseas next year and have decided I wil buy the film at B&H and. have it shipped to my stay in EU, they have very cheap shipping rates. Once there, either dev locally or just ship it back myself. Havent figured out that part yet.

 

[dokko]

I will also be going overseas next year and have decided I wil buy the film at B&H and. have it shipped to my stay in EU, they have very cheap shipping rates. Once there, either dev locally or just ship it back myself. Havent figured out that part yet.

you'll likely have to deal with customs/import tax, which can be costly and annoying. If you include VAT, import tax, handling fees and shipping, that's easily 30% more in most countries. so personally I would just buy locally in the EU and process here as well.

 

[Nikon 2]

I will also be going overseas next year and have decided I wil buy the film at B&H and. have it shipped to my stay in EU, they have very cheap shipping rates. Once there, either dev locally or just ship it back myself. Havent figured out that part yet.

Good advice…!

 

[Nikon 2]

you'll likely have to deal with customs/import tax, which can be costly and annoying. If you include VAT, import tax, handling fees and shipping, that's easily 30% more in most countries. so personally I would just buy locally in the EU and process here as well.

Thank you for sharing…!

 

[Duceman]

I just went on a trip here in the U.S. In both airports, security had no problem hand-checking my film. But I did leave an exposed roll in my carry-on bag that went through CT-type scanner shown above (at BNA); haven't devoloped it yet but am not too worried... it was a roll of Ilford FP4.

 

[Brad Deputy]

I just went on a trip here in the U.S. In both airports, security had no problem hand-checking my film. But I did leave an exposed roll in my carry-on bag that went through CT-type scanner shown above (at BNA); haven't devoloped it yet but am not too worried... it was a roll of Ilford FP4.

Do let us know what you find. Kodak has stated those new CT scanners are a threat to their films, even on a single pass.

I too had no difficulty with asking for hand inspection last traveled between SEA and LAX. Just have it all in zip lok bags.

 

[Nikon 2]

I found a solution!
I’ll bring my MD 262…!

 

[Brad Deputy]

I found a solution!
I’ll bring my MD 262…!

Boo, hiss!

 

[Nikon 2]

Boo, hiss!

Looks like I’m under arrest by the Deputy…!

 

[Duceman]

Do let us know what you find. Kodak has stated those new CT scanners are a threat to their films, even on a single pass.

I too had no difficulty with asking for hand inspection last traveled between SEA and LAX. Just have it all in zip lok bags.

Will do. I should also note that signs in the security line stated that the scanners will not affect film below ISO800, for whatever that's worth.

 

[koraks]

@Nikon 2 I've merged your new thread into this one since it's really about the same topic.

 

[mrosenlof]

Ok, here's some anecdotal evidence -- an oxymoron because it's not evidence -- but on two occasions this year, I've had a loaded camera get scanned by the CT scanners. 400 film both times, just a single pass, with no apparent damage.

One was at Dulles, the other in Sydney.

 

[wiltw]

Will do. I should also note that signs in the security line stated that the scanners will not affect film below ISO800, for whatever that's worth.

Such signs have long been in use with the X-ray machines at Secuity, and are consistent with what Kodak and Fuji publicly stated, after testing was completed by both companies.
In spite of what Kodak had stated about the new CT machines at Security, for a while there was no 'hand inspection' policy by TSA regarding CT. Eventually TSA did put the hand inspection policy in place, but international security agencies have been variable in ignoring requests for hand inspection. Interestingly, earlier in 2023 the UK did put into place a hand inspection policy even at Heathrow, which had been notorious for ignoring requests in past years!

 

[VinceInMT]

On a recent flight to Mesa, AZ I repeated my previous non-scientific experiment that I mentioned in post #83 with a bit of a change. I shot about 12 frames of HP4+ and cut the roll in half in the darkroom leaving one half rolled back into the canister and the other loaded into another metal canister. I put this in a plastic container (Kodak, I think) and tossed this into my backpack that went through the scanners in Billings and in Mesa. Upon my return I loaded both strips of film onto separate reels and developed together in Xtol for 8 minutes. After drying, I put the strips side by side in a medium format holder and scanned with my Epson V500 and reversed to negative. Here is the result. The top strip is the one that went through airport scanners. Visually there appear, in the clear areas, to be a slight higher density in the top strip. I used a tool in a paint program to measure the density difference and there was about a 5 point difference on a 255 point scale. The upshot, for me, is that this file, as ISO 125, is not impacted (much) by going through these scanners.

As an aside, I have TSA-Pre so only have to go through the metal detector which is never a problem. However, in Mesa I was “randomly selected” to go though the full body scanner. I set off an alarm as that machine detected my medical implant. (It’s made of silicone with a VERY small part of titanium and is in my groin. It’s an AMS800 for those curious.) They told me we should go to a private room. I asked if I had to disrobe and was told that I didn’t but they were going to do a very intense pat down in that region. I told them to just get on with it. They did and I passed but wondered what do you tip for that kind of attention. ;-)

 

[koraks]

Visually there appear, in the clear areas, to be a slight higher density in the top strip.

Yes, I see it, and the Lab readings on the digital file confirm a slight difference. It's not something that would show up in the images unless they all occupy only the toe of the film curve and are boosted extremely heavily in printing or digital post processing.
These airports, are they using the regular x-ray machines or newfangled CT's?

 

[Nikon 2]

On a recent flight to Mesa, AZ I repeated my previous non-scientific experiment that I mentioned in post #83 with a bit of a change. I shot about 12 frames of HP4+ and cut the roll in half in the darkroom leaving one half rolled back into the canister and the other loaded into another metal canister. I put this in a plastic container (Kodak, I think) and tossed this into my backpack that went through the scanners in Billings and in Mesa. Upon my return I loaded both strips of film onto separate reels and developed together in Xtol for 8 minutes. After drying, I put the strips side by side in a medium format holder and scanned with my Epson V500 and reversed to negative. Here is the result. The top strip is the one that went through airport scanners. Visually there appear, in the clear areas, to be a slight higher density in the top strip. I used a tool in a paint program to measure the density difference and there was about a 5 point difference on a 255 point scale. The upshot, for me, is that this file, as ISO 125, is not impacted (much) by going through these scanners.

View attachment 356012

As an aside, I have TSA-Pre so only have to go through the metal detector which is never a problem. However, in Mesa I was “randomly selected” to go though the full body scanner. I set off an alarm as that machine detected my medical implant. (It’s made of silicone with a VERY small part of titanium and is in my groin. It’s an AMS800 for those curious.) They told me we should go to a private room. I asked if I had to disrobe and was told that I didn’t but they were going to do a very intense pat down in that region. I told them to just get on with it. They did and I passed but wondered what do you tip for that kind of attention. ;-)

Next time take a digital camera…!

 

[VinceInMT]

Yes, I see it, and the Lab readings on the digital file confirm a slight difference. It's not something that would show up in the images unless they all occupy only the toe of the film curve and are boosted extremely heavily in printing or digital post processing.
These airports, are they using the regular x-ray machines or newfangled CT's?

They both looked like the one in Post #103.

 

[koraks]

They both looked like the one in Post #103.

Which one? The round, tubular one? The square one with the rounded corners? Or the box-like one?

And were you allowed to bring bottled water in your bags and did you have to remove laptops and other electronic devices?

 

[VinceInMT]

Next time take a digital camera…!

I did, my iPhone 14 Pro. I use it to document all my runs, which in Mesa show little but beige houses and No Trespassing signs. Anything not paved in that place is labeled off limits.

 

[VinceInMT]

Which one? The round, tubular one? The square one with the rounded corners? Or the box-like one?

And were you allowed to bring bottled water in your bags and did you have to remove laptops and other electronic devices?

The round tubular one. No, with TSA-Pre I just put my carry on bag and my small backpack through the scanner. My phone, iPad, extra battery, all stay in the bags. No liquids. I keep my jacket and shoes on and just do the metal detector (except coming back from Mesa this time.)

 

[koraks]

The round tubular one.

OK, that seems to be CT for sure, also going by the fact that you can leave your electronics in the bag.

I just watched the Instagram thing that Lina Bessanova assembled with her experiments with CT and xray. She used the CT scanners at Amsterdam Airport and sure enough those aren't 'film-safe' (she calls them 'pure evil' and 'evil incarnate').

Anyway, my experience earlier this year with xray damage on 250-speed film has put me off of further plans to travel with film. I'll shoot digital next time we fly. It's just not worth it anymore for me, until some EU-wide regulation comes into effect that entitles people to hand checks.