Choices for IR film?

[Sirius Glass]

yesterday I shot 6 rolls, 3 RR80 and 3 RR400. I find a lot of the speed depends on HOW you meter. if you use an in camera meter, you will get different speeds than using a hand held meter. I use an Incident meter. I use ISO 4 for RR80 and 8 for RR200, using a 720 filter, so 5 stops, then develop for my normal speed for the emulsion. when I took the rolls out to hang to dry, I always forget, for a second, and think how under exposed they images are. then remember that the negs will look thin because of the IR effect. just scanned yesterday, but I love this time of year. the oak trees look great with IR shots

john

It is very important NOT TO meter the sky, especially when using IR films.

 

[Helge]

It is very important NOT TO meter the sky, especially when using IR films.

There’s a simple and valuable piece of advice I wish someone would have told me before. X-)
Why isn’t this Shoot IR Film 101 first sentence?

 

[destroya]

It is very important NOT TO meter the sky, especially when using IR films.

yeh, its funny how the in camera meter really tries hard to bring a black sky back to middle grey. i got an ISO of .5 when I metered with an in camera meter just using the standard "meter by what you want in the picture" approach.

 

[destroya]

here is a simple small resize. hand held, shot at ISO 4, so F4.5 1/60 as metered with incident meter. Stanford Dish trail. this time of year the oaks just look great with IR. always hoping I get a secret IR something when I shoot the radio telescope. alas, another year, another no message

another thing that really helps, A rangefinder! shot with a contax G1. side sun and still get that great glow!
john

 

[MattKing]

another thing that really helps, A rangefinder!

Or a TLR

 

[Helge]

here is a simple small resize. hand held, shot at ISO 4, so F4.5 1/60 as metered with incident meter. Stanford Dish trail. this time of year the oaks just look great with IR. always hoping I get a secret IR something when I shoot the radio telescope. alas, another year, another no message

another thing that really helps, A rangefinder! shot with a contax G1. side sun and still get that great glow!
john

View attachment 271116

Beautiful!

I’m actually trying to get down to 1/30, as I want to use bulb flash for the foreground some of the time. Bulbs have quite a kick in the IR spectrum. It also of course lets you get slightly better DoF.

There a rangefinder also helps a lot.

I’m using an Retina Automatic III so far. Good lens, with no apparent hotspot or flare with a good shade.

I’d go so far as to say that handheld IR only really works with rangefinders and TLRs.

 

[AgX]

What is actually the fastest IR film available?

You first have to define speed.
For instance sensitivy at longest wavelenght or at a certain wavelength.

 

[fs999]

Pentax 645N • Pentax FA 645 75mm f:2.8 ED with no name R72 infrared filter
Rollei Retro 80S developed in Caffenol CL 50min stand @ 20°C
Scanned with Epson Perfection V500 at 3200dpi and Betterscanning MF Film Holder

80 ISO, Av mode, 4" F8 +1Ev.



80 ISO. Av mode, 2" F22 0Ev



Caffenol CL
500 ml Filtered Water
8gr Anhydrous Washing Soda
5gr Vitamin C
20gr Instant Coffee ("Winny")
Slow agitations the first minute and then let stand for 49 minutes

 

[Helge]

You first have to define speed.
For instance sensitivy at longest wavelenght or at a certain wavelength.

Well, that would be 700 to 750nm as that is what IR film covers today.
There will be sensitivity a bit before and after. That also matters in IR of course. But the aforementioned band is where Wood effect kicks in and where Rayleigh scattering rolls off.

 

[markjwyatt]

here is a simple small resize. hand held, shot at ISO 4, so F4.5 1/60 as metered with incident meter. Stanford Dish trail. this time of year the oaks just look great with IR. always hoping I get a secret IR something when I shoot the radio telescope. alas, another year, another no message

another thing that really helps, A rangefinder! shot with a contax G1. side sun and still get that great glow!
john

View attachment 271116

Interesting shot of oaks. I shot Rollei IR 400 w/720nm filter, and the oaks respond much less strongly than grasses and other types of trees (typically lighter green leaves). Here is one. See the oaks on the left side of the distant hill, and the gorge below. There is a little response, but not compared to the [green] grasses, and for instance the tree on the right. Sun was pretty high in the sky. Were the grasses green or dry in your shot? TLR helps for sure!

I externally metered at ISO 6 w/720nm filter on. Looked at incident and reflective (avoiding sky).


Little Tree by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr

 

[destroya]

Interesting shot of oaks. I shot Rollei IR 400 w/720nm filter, and the oaks respond much less strongly than grasses and other types of trees (typically lighter green leaves). Here is one. See the oaks on the left side of the distant hill, and the gorge below. There is a little response, but not compared to the [green] grasses, and for instance the tree on the right. Sun was pretty high in the sky. Were the grasses green or dry in your shot? TLR helps for sure!

I externally metered at ISO 6 w/720nm filter on. Looked at incident and reflective (avoiding sky).


Little Tree by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr

all the white leaves in my pict are from new growth leaves. old leaves on other types of oaks will not give me white leaves either. only new growth leaves give off strong wood effect.

 

[markjwyatt]

all the white leaves in my pict are from new growth leaves. old leaves on other types of oaks will not give me white leaves either. only new growth leaves give off strong wood effect.

The light green (new growth) seems to be key. Was the grass dry or green?

 

[Finn lyle]

The light green (new growth) seems to be key. Was the grass dry or green?

Color infrared was used to research crop health and water stress wasn’t it? From what I can remember from plant physiology, plants with healthy amounts of chlorophyll and which are not water stressed will reflect the most amount of Near IR light (due to active photosynthesis and inner leaf anatomy).

 

[dietersairplanes]

Ilford's SFX is a good film, but the Rollei IR product is a bit better. Both are at their best if exposed through a Hoya R72 filter rather than a standard dark red. Here is an example of the Rollei Infrared film in 4x5 format:
View attachment 244608

Here is the Rollei IR film in 35mm format:
View attachment 244609

What a GREAT picture.

 

[markjwyatt]

Color infrared was used to research crop health and water stress wasn’t it? Plants with healthy amounts of chlorophyll and which are not water stressed will reflect the most amount of Near IR light (due to active photosynthesis and inner leaf anatomy).

What about this? Look at this succulent. But note that it's trunk is also reflecting a lot of near IR. Even more interesting, there are two wood dowels holding the plant up (the plant is wrapped around one, and there is another right next to it leaning to the right). They may be pine dowels. They also seem to be reflecting a lot of near IR! Maybe they are just re-reflecting light from the succulent? In infrared imaging, you have to watch out for emission sources that can misinform you about a nearby object's temperature. To the right, in the distance you will see other trunks, and other pieces of wood holding a pant up, but they do not reflect near IR to any excessive degree.


Potted Plant by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr

You can see one of teh dowels in an earlier standard B&W image. It is pretty light in color with a MedY filter.


Plant by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr

 

[Finn lyle]

What about this? Look at this succulent. But note that it's trunk is also reflecting a lot of near IR. Even more interesting, there are two wood dowels holding the plant up (the plant is wrapped around one, and there is another right next to it leaning to the right). They may be pine dowels. They also seem to be reflecting a lot of near IR! Maybe they are just re-reflecting light from the succulent? In infrared imaging, you have to watch out for emission sources that can misinform you about a nearby object's temperature. To the right, in the distance you will see other trunks, and other pieces of wood holding a pant up, but they do not reflect near IR to any excessive degree.


Potted Plant by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr

You can see one of teh dowels in an earlier standard B&W image. It is pretty light in color with a MedY filter.


Plant by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr

I almost want to say it would work better on C3 plants like potato, so one could use EIR to detect wilts. Interestingly thermal IR coupled with near-IR has been investigated for sensing when to irrigate crops (here). Interesting though, the dowel may well be very reflective as pine is a pretty light colored wood. It wouldn't be surprising if the stem of that succulent is photosynthesizing as well, they've got some pretty crafty mechanisms to survive in dry conditions. Anyway, I digress! That's a neat picture with some real fantastic wood effect Mark, it really makes me want to try doing some IR imaging of my garden this year. What film did you use for those?

 

[markjwyatt]

I almost want to say it would work better on C3 plants like potato, so one could use EIR to detect wilts. Interestingly thermal IR coupled with near-IR has been investigated for sensing when to irrigate crops (here). Interesting though, the dowel may well be very reflective as pine is a pretty light colored wood. It wouldn't be surprising if the stem of that succulent is photosynthesizing as well, they've got some pretty crafty mechanisms to survive in dry conditions. Anyway, I digress! That's a neat picture with some real fantastic wood effect Mark, it really makes me want to try doing some IR imaging of my garden this year. What film did you use for those?

Thanks, @Finn lyle ! It was Rollei IR400 in 120. I describe what I did above: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/choices-for-ir-film.174757/page-10#post-2404196

I have 4 more rolls of it (expired 2015, frozen). I suspect it is the same as the new film Rollei still supplies (not sure it is still made in Belgian Agfa plant, but may be). I look forward to finding some more interesting shots.

 

[YoIaMoNwater]

What about this? Look at this succulent. But note that it's trunk is also reflecting a lot of near IR. Even more interesting, there are two wood dowels holding the plant up (the plant is wrapped around one, and there is another right next to it leaning to the right). They may be pine dowels. They also seem to be reflecting a lot of near IR! Maybe they are just re-reflecting light from the succulent? In infrared imaging, you have to watch out for emission sources that can misinform you about a nearby object's temperature. To the right, in the distance you will see other trunks, and other pieces of wood holding a pant up, but they do not reflect near IR to any excessive degree.


Potted Plant by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr

You can see one of teh dowels in an earlier standard B&W image. It is pretty light in color with a MedY filter.


Plant by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr

I recently shot a roll of EIR with Wratten 12 filter and surprisingly the smaller/newer tree branches were pink whereas the trunk was blue. I suppose that the new branches/stems of plants reflect more IR just like you are seeing.

 

[MattKing]

The process also involves absorption of IR - with old branches absorbing more.

 

[Animalcito]

Reading through the thread I have not seen Fomapan 400 mentioned - not a dedicated IR film but obviously capable of some 'wood-effect': https://emulsive.org/reviews/film-r...ews/fomapan-400-arista-edu-ultra-400-infrared

 

[Helge]

Reading through the thread I have not seen Fomapan 400 mentioned - not a dedicated IR film but obviously capable of some 'wood-effect': https://emulsive.org/reviews/film-r...ews/fomapan-400-arista-edu-ultra-400-infrared

Wow that’s very interesting. Foma is cheap as chips where I am. Will definitely try it.

 

[markjwyatt]

Reading through the thread I have not seen Fomapan 400 mentioned - not a dedicated IR film but obviously capable of some 'wood-effect': https://emulsive.org/reviews/film-r...ews/fomapan-400-arista-edu-ultra-400-infrared

Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out. In addition to just buying some expired Rollei IR 400, I also bought some Fomapan 400 in 120 (during the recent sale). I may try a few shots now that I have the 720 nm filters.

Looking at this image The Fomo 400 effect at ISO 1.5 (ISO +2) is similar to IR 400 at ISO 6. So IR 400 has roughly 8x more near IR sensitivity.

 

[grat]

I'd seen that as well, but the data sheet clearly shows the sensitivity taking a nosedive around 675nm, and bottoming out at just under 700nm. They even say it can be processed in infrared-- leaving me very confused.

 

[markjwyatt]

I'd seen that as well, but the data sheet clearly shows the sensitivity taking a nosedive around 675nm, and bottoming out at just under 700nm. They even say it can be processed in infrared-- leaving me very confused.

The datasheet I have (Fomapan 400) shows it crossing 700 on the way down, and it is not clear where the x and y axis cross. Also, it clearly has enhanced red sensitivity peaking around 680-690 nm so much of the drop from the peak brings it back in line to blue sensitivity. I think would need a more detailed curve to really make a judgement on IR sensitivity.

 

[grat]

I was looking at this: https://www.foma.cz/en/fomapan-400

Comparing the two, Freestyle's copy is from 2012, and Foma's was last update 2017-- and the emulsive article is from 2016, so it's possible the emulsion was tweaked in 2017.