Choices for IR film?

[Sirius Glass]

Why do you assume my age?
What’s more I think the split is at least fifty percent “young” whatever that is, that shoot and are enthusiastic about film.
I’ve met far more stodgy older men, why are dead set on digital. And who are very critical and not understanding about the why and how to use film.

That was not aimed at you. It was aimed at others who do not have any experience with film.

 

[JWMster]

Sirius: FWIW, when I came back to film - my life's experience... by which I mean to say when I dropped a 5 year dalliance with digital and restricted it mostly to camera scanning, I think I was surprised at how hard initially it seemed to be to find things like B&W contrast filters. Filter companies generally don't advertise film filters any more.BW contrast filters are what we all grew up with. Duh. But I never shot IR film. So the same holds true in trying to find IR filters for film. So my question is whether folks know if some of the IR filters made for digital (which I don't have because IR digital involved a lot of expense in "fixing" your sensor to do it right) will work with film... because the digital IR filters are what's advertised. Any idea?

 

[reddesert]

You can get a red filter basically equivalent to a Wratten #25, or an IR 720 nm, or a 760 nm filter, all relatively easy to find on ebay or at large photo retailers. It makes no difference whether the package says digital on it or not.

Whether the filter is suitable for your choice of film (or digital), lighting, scenery, and weather takes some experimentation. Other people can give you hints, like buying an 850nm filter for a film that is advertised to have extended red sensitivity out to 720nm will probably be disappointing. But ultimately you have to try it and not expect your first exposure to come out perfect.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Sirius: FWIW, when I came back to film - my life's experience... by which I mean to say when I dropped a 5 year dalliance with digital and restricted it mostly to camera scanning, I think I was surprised at how hard initially it seemed to be to find things like B&W contrast filters. Filter companies generally don't advertise film filters any more.BW contrast filters are what we all grew up with. Duh. But I never shot IR film. So the same holds true in trying to find IR filters for film. So my question is whether folks know if some of the IR filters made for digital (which I don't have because IR digital involved a lot of expense in "fixing" your sensor to do it right) will work with film... because the digital IR filters are what's advertised. Any idea?

I have no idea.

For film I use R25, R29 and 720 [R72] depending on how strong effect is desired. I have a R23 which I could use for IF film, but I have not used it and will not.

 

[JWMster]

Thanks guys. THat helps a lot.

 

[Paul Manuell]

Anon Ymous: THanks! Of course I thought Agfa ding dang died. It lives?

The question of "will a filter for IR digital" work for IR film remains open. I tend to use Lee's 100X100 filters, but these can get expensive. So figuring this out is kind of important. Hoya R72 might be a better bet, huh? Yes, this means I'm thinking of ordering some IR film.

Don't buy a Hoya IR72, they're expensive cos you're paying for the name. I bought mine from SRB Photographic; they're a fraction of the cost of Hoya's and work perfectly

 

[fs999]

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" and the added benefit is that it works on all other days as well as St Crispin's day

I'm drinking a stout on that

 

[Helge]

Is the Washi 400 NIR a repackaging of the old Agfa aerial 400 film?
There is no real datasheet on it.

How about Adox HR-50 Speed Boost? Is that also a rebrand?
The curve looks a lot like a smoothed version of the S80 curve and has a clear base suitable for SCALA.

Looks like a pretty nice film and they claim to have “Speed boosted” it whatever that is?

Team Adox do you have any comments?

 

[pentaxuser]

I'm drinking a stout on that

I like your style. Stout was a popular drink here in the U.K. before the world turned lax and sour we oldies say You hardly ever hear of anyone who drinks it now.

pentaxuser

 

[ProfessorC1983]

Just wanted to say thanks to all for the great info and beautiful images in this thread... it has inspired me to order some Rollei Retro 400S and an 89B filter so I hope to join the party soon.

 

[fs999]

You hardly ever hear of anyone who drinks it now.

Oh some weird people in the far north of Scotland still seem to abuse it

 

[Helge]

Just wanted to say thanks to all for the great info and beautiful images in this thread... it has inspired me to order some Rollei Retro 400S and an 89B filter so I hope to join the party soon.

Why 400S when it’s been repeated many times over that it’s really just 200S?
I mean why encourage that kind of flimflam?

Not that it will mean much difference to you personally. I’m just interested whether you knew, and if I have misunderstood something?

Also what filter did you order and where?

 

[ProfessorC1983]

Why 400S when it’s been repeated many times over that it’s really just 200S?
I mean why encourage that kind of flimflam?

Not that it will mean much difference to you personally. I’m just interested whether you knew, and if I have misunderstood something?

Also what filter did you order and where?

Yes, I based that decision on the info in this thread, to the best of my comprehension, that many Rollei films are based on the same Aviphot 200 stock and so I simply went with the one that was available and least expensive at the time I placed the order. I also noted based on the curves posted above that the Rollei/Aviphot seems to have somewhat more IR sensitivity than SFX200. (Though of course I might be misinterpreting.) That said, I suspect I'll also try SFX200 and make my own comparisons, especially since there is no published reciprocity failure data for the Rollei/Aviphot and so that may add some unwelcome guesswork to longer exposures.

As regards "encouraging flimflam," I absolutely see what you're getting at, but generally speaking I'm just not the type to put a lot of moral weight on small consumer purchases. Though I completely understand and respect those who do. I simply doubt my buying 5 rolls is going to make or break any business regardless of their shady marketing, especially when a bit of research (as evidenced by this thread) provides the truth about the underlying product, and that's what I'm paying for. Again, just my $0.02.

I bought an Ednalite 89B from filterfind.net, who I'd highly recommend.

 

[Helge]

Yes, I based that decision on the info in this thread, to the best of my comprehension, that many Rollei films are based on the same Aviphot 200 stock and so I simply went with the one that was available and least expensive at the time I placed the order. I also noted based on the curves posted above that the Rollei/Aviphot seems to have somewhat more IR sensitivity than SFX200. (Though of course I might be misinterpreting.) That said, I suspect I'll also try SFX200 and make my own comparisons, especially since there is no published reciprocity failure data for the Rollei/Aviphot and so that may add some unwelcome guesswork to longer exposures.

As regards "encouraging flimflam," I absolutely see what you're getting at, but generally speaking I'm just not the type to put a lot of moral weight on small consumer purchases. Though I completely understand and respect those who do. I simply doubt my buying 5 rolls is going to make or break any business regardless of their shady marketing, especially when a bit of research (as evidenced by this thread) provides the truth about the underlying product, and that's what I'm paying for. Again, just my $0.02.

I bought an Ednalite 89B from filterfind.net, who I'd highly recommend.

Yes, one small purchase is not going to make a difference, but a thread like this can cascade and influence for decades.
Thanks for the address!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I just found 40 sheets of 8x10 Efke IR. I forgot that I moved it to another box, as the original one got wet and moldy, after the freezer decided to defrost on me. Luckily the film was dry. Now if all this bloody smoke from the US would bugger off, I might be able to use it!

 

[grat]

I picked up an inexpensive 720nm filter for my digital camera-- and it's terrible. Allows in far too much of the "visible" red. This is more critical for digital than film, in my opinion (unless you modify the camera to remove the IR cut filter).

Replaced it with a genuine Hoya R72 and it works much better. I expect it will work better for film as well.

 

[pentaxuser]

I just found 40 sheets of 8x10 Efke IR. Now if all this bloody smoke from the US would bugger off, I might be able to use it!

What about the mirrors that go with it? Does that make it worse?

To all them folks below the 49th - Just kidding

pentaxuser

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

What about the mirrors that go with it? Does that make it worse?

To all them folks below the 49th - Just kidding

pentaxuser

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks Andrew It is only that occasional laughing face you give me that stops me taking to heart the comment about my stupid jokes and then blowing my brains out. To be honest however I need to add that finding a gun store is also quite difficult here in the U.K.

pentaxuser

 

[Helge]

I was thinking, might triplet lenses actually be better than lenses with more elements for IR?

Fewer surfaces. And the lenses and their coatings are never corrected for internal reflections in the NIR spectrum. So a shorter barrel and less dispersion.

Chromatic aberrations which is usually what causes much of the corner problems with triplets is a non issue here.

Anyone with experience in that regard?

 

[bluechromis]

Is the Washi 400 NIR a repackaging of the old Agfa aerial 400 film?
There is no real datasheet on it.

How about Adox HR-50 Speed Boost? Is that also a rebrand?
The curve looks a lot like a smoothed version of the S80 curve and has a clear base suitable for SCALA.
View attachment 256362
Looks like a pretty nice film and they claim to have “Speed boosted” it whatever that is?

Team Adox do you have any comments?

HR-50 does indeed have good IR sensitivity. It also has remarkably fine grain, more so that any IR film I know. The Speed Boost technology is rumored to be a preflashing technique to reduce contrast, kick shadows off the toe.

 

[pentaxuser]

. The Speed Boost technology is rumored to be a preflashing technique to reduce contrast, kick shadows off the toe.

I take it that you mean that Adox pre-flash the film. This prompts a question: My understanding is that if you pre-flash paper then there is a kind of a latent pre-flash problem in that it disappears after a short period(days?) so has to be used within that period.

If this is the case then what is it about film that stops the same thing happening given that the film may not be used for weeks, months or even a couple of years?

Thanks in advance to any and all who know the answer

pentaxuser

 

[Helge]

HR-50 does indeed have good IR sensitivity. It also has remarkably fine grain, more so that any IR film I know. The Speed Boost technology is rumored to be a preflashing technique to reduce contrast, kick shadows off the toe.

I’d like to do the pre-flashing myself.
It’s much better done right at the moment of capture or just before or after.
Is there any of their film that is the same emulsion, just without preflash?

Preflash plus push processing, is the only readily attainable way to have a real speed increase with film.
It’s very dependent on the situation though, and is not something that can just be done brainlessly.

The ultimate solution would be to have a camera with build in concurrent adaptive flashing.
But until that day, I’ll do it myself, thankyouverymuch.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I have pre-flashed Rollei IR in the field. Zone II without filter. Nice boost to the shadows.

 

[pentaxuser]

So, can Adox pre-flash the film and maintain its beneficial effects for a long enough to make it useful for a user of this film?

Looks like we need an answer from Team ADOX on this. I wonder if it is still maintaining a presence here so it will see this question and answer it?

pentaxuser