CatLABS X FILM 320 Pro now available in 35mm and 120

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Moose22

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so I shoot 1600 and consider 3200 to be push.

I think of it that way, too. It's very much the true case.

But in practice I usually just do something like shoot P3200 at 3200 and develop it at the time that worked well for me last time.

I'm the same with HP5. I tend to use it when I want higher speed than the 400 in the box, and it's a lower contrast film that pushes well, so in practice I just shoot at 800 and use the time I got good results when when I was testing it last winter.

Matt and a few others schooled me on the "real" iso of high speed films and all of that when I first dove into them, which was wonderful. I find that stuff super interesting in theory.

But in the end I just want a negative I can use and like the look of.
 

Oldwino

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I really don't care who made it. I only care that it is really a new emulsion and not just a repackaged film. Too many "new" films out there which are repacked.
It appears that it is something new, which is exciting, and I am looking forward to seeing what it can do. I've received my 10 rolls, first one in the II-D @200.
 

aparat

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This is interesting and useful. Thanks for doing the tests and sharing your findings.

It would also be useful to compare the real-world results that you get with i) manufacturer's recommendations vs ii) your experimentally determined EI + developing time. If you plan to do this comparison, please do share your results.

Thanks again.

Yes, it would be very useful to do a photographic test. However, I don't have a film scanner, and using a phone to digitize film is not ideal. I need to wait a bit longer until I am able to make silver gelatin prints. Then, I will do such a test.
 

faberryman

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There's always non disclosure agreements, do not analyze agreements. Etc. This is ordinary and completely normal. Previous job we dealt with plastics and chemicals. If something was marked "business confidential" you didn't make copies, share even internally by email.

Not always. CatLABS hasn't claimed they are subject to an NDA. They're just being coy about it.

I don't see why people care who makes it???

I don't see why some people collect Hummel figurines, but if they want to do so, it is okay with me.
 
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Huss

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And this is more of a pet peeve than anything else, but in my mind the examples posted are much better demonstrations of the vision of a particular photographer and use of interesting light than something that would tell me about how the film performs in a variety of situations and types of light.

Well then the obvious answer is to spend $6.99 and try it out!

I’m going to rate it at ISO 200 and shoot it in bright light, in dim light, indoors, outdoors…

For all those skeptics, it is only $6.99! Suck it up, bite the bullet, tighten your belt, do whatever you have to do to afford that one measly roll…

Then rate it at ISO 20 because that is what your tests say it actually is, and complain about how crappy your results are.
 

faberryman

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I’m going to rate it at ISO 200 and shoot it in bright light, in dim light, indoors, outdoors…

Thanks for the link! Looks great and surprise surprise ISO 200-250…. Like what CatLabs says on its website.

Good thing you don't look at the box because the box says "EI ISO" 320. Admittedly, it's only a half a stop or so difference, Some people's shutter speeds are off more than that, so it's no big deal. Whatever.
 
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MattKing

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Well then the obvious answer is to spend $6.99 and try it out!

That is an answer to a (sort of) different question.
My comment was about the tendency to use dramatic and memorable photos, rather than mundane but technically revealing photos, to demonstrate the technical qualities of a new film.
Dark, weighty and relatively detail free shadows are great for drama, but not so great for showing much about the film!
Sort of like the car commercials that show family SUVs in environments that look great but aren't very revealing about how easy it is to load your groceries and toddlers when you've finished shopping at the supermarket.
 

Huss

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That is an answer to a (sort of) different question.
My comment was about the tendency to use dramatic and memorable photos, rather than mundane but technically revealing photos, to demonstrate the technical qualities of a new film.
Dark, weighty and relatively detail free shadows are great for drama, but not so great for showing much about the film!
Sort of like the car commercials that show family SUVs in environments that look great but aren't very revealing about how easy it is to load your groceries and toddlers when you've finished shopping at the supermarket.

Isn’t the whole point to take dramatic and memorable photos? That actually is what I want film to be good for. If I wanted mundane, I’d use my phone.
 

faberryman

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[/QUOTE]
Isn’t the whole point to take dramatic and memorable photos? That actually is what I want film to be good for. If I wanted mundane, I’d use my phone.

Most of my photos aren't dramatic. Platinum/palladium prints don't really lend themselves to dramatic. I'd like to think my prints are subtle. That's what I am aiming for with static subjects and a long tonal scale and everything. But maybe my prints are just mundane. That's certainly a possibility. As far as memorable, sometimes I look through a box of my prints and say: "Wow, I forgot all about that one." So in addition to being mundane, I guess my prints aren't very memorable either. Anyone want to buy a camera?
 
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MattKing

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Isn’t the whole point to take dramatic and memorable photos? That actually is what I want film to be good for. If I wanted mundane, I’d use my phone.

I like film that works well for the dramatic, works well for meaningful memories, and works well for the mundane but in need of recording.
I really enjoy seeing people use a film creatively - the example photos do that well. But if I wanted to convince people to switch to my new film, I'd show more examples of how well it does many of the other things too.
As an example, nothing in the examples shown at the beginning of the thread reveal how the film behaves at a beach scene with lots of high key tones - something that might be interesting to you, I would think.
 

Moose22

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That is an answer to a (sort of) different question.
My comment was about the tendency to use dramatic and memorable photos, rather than mundane but technically revealing photos, to demonstrate the technical qualities of a new film.

I have a lot of pictures of a liquor store.

I also shoot a few of the same subjects when I test. I kind of wish I had a proper target of some variety, but I haven't gotten around to that. However, I know what the cactus in my front yard looks like what the liquor store looks like, what the funny purple house looks like, etc... I KNOW the light there at certain times, and I have 10 old pics from doing the same test on other film.

I don't know that those photos are really a good comparison for anyone but me, especially as I don't share 20 pictures of an agave and a palm tree to compare, but for me the similar stuff helps.

As an aside, my old boss at work joked that he knew the liquor store by heart from all of the photos we shared. But then they painted over the mural (the reason I shot it the first time was the mural) and when I sent him a post mural pic he didn't even notice. Heh.
 

brbo

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Thanks for the link! Looks great and surprise surprise ISO 200-250…. Like what CatLabs says on its website.

Not much detail in shadows, though.

I don't shoot BW much, but shots from that review remind me of what I got from a few rolls of Rollei Retro 400S that I shot and quite liked the look (for some shots).



Interestingly, those who care about those things came up with EI not even close to 400 for Rollei Retro 400S.

So, you might like the look of CatLABS 320 Pro and some people might find that it's not close to 320 and you both could be right. I don't see a point in telling people how wrong they are (even if @aparat did mess something up, he clearly stated that being a possibility). Especially, since I don't see people telling you that you should like the look of this film shot at ISO 320 or 200.
 

AgX

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Did someone say it has a clear base?
I have some Adox 35mm with clear base. It is made in Germany according to the label.
Who makes ADOX?

Did Catlabs say "Germany"? They say "EU" instead.

If one understands "made in" as emulsion and coating made in the EU, and both done by same manufacturer, then these firms remain:

Adox
Agfa
Foma
Inoviscoat


Adox at the moment not even coat films of their own. They instead making a film for a competitor seems not likely. Not sure on them PET-base coating in Germany.
 
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faberryman

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Did Catlabs say "Germany"? They say "EU" instead.

If one understands "made in" as emulsion and coating made in the EU, and both done by same manufacturer, then these firms remain:

Adox
Agfa
Foma
Inoviscoat

Adox at the moment not even coat films of their own. They instead making a film for a competitor seems not likely. Not sure on them PET-base coating in Germany.

CatLABS says it's not Foma.

This film has nothing to do with Foma.
 

Nitroplait

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Did Catlabs say "Germany"? They say "EU" instead.

If one understands "made in" as emulsion and coating made in the EU, and both done by same manufacturer, then these firms remain:

Adox
Agfa
Foma
Inoviscoat


Adox at the moment not even coat films of their own. They instead making a film for a competitor seems not likely. Not sure on them PET-base coating in Germany.

You failed to see the question in the post. Who makes ADOX?
Whoever does that is in the EU and can deliver film on a pet base. And may therefore be a candidate.
 

aparat

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Thank you for posting the link to the review! It's nice to see people enjoying the film.

As I mentioned, I have no reason not to like this film. I think it has an interesting "punchy" kind of look, when exposed and developed according to the instructions on the box. It's also great to see that one's personal EI works out very well for them. That's what it's all about.

Testing film in a controlled environment is kind of different from finding one's preferred parameters with actual, real-world photography. There has been some discussion in the film sensitometry literature over the years emphasizing the role of subjective negative and print assessment, rather than analysis purely by the numbers, so keep that in mind, please.

I am attaching the results of my analysis as a PDF so you guys can see the them more clearly. Please, feel free to pick holes in my analysis. I want to learn to do a better job in the future!

There are a few things I need to mention first.
1. The film is underexposed, so the curves have a very unusual shape. Modeling such curves is a challenge. There is some extrapolation involved, which, any statistician will tell you, is a big no-no :smile:. The extrapolated bits are marked with black dotted lines.
3. I considered giving the film more exposure, but that would involve significant contribution from reciprocity, which would make the analysis a lot less reliable, without knowing the actual reciprocity failure values from the manufacturer.
4. All of the numbers computed here are done entirely by algorithm, so they are approximate. It is particularly true of Gamma where finding the "straight portion of the curve" is typically subject to interpretation by the photographer. Here, Gamma is computed by finding the straight line statistically (the green dotted line). Fractional gradient is somewhat similar in that regard. Other parameters are also subject to some variability, but should, nevertheless, get you in the ballpark.
5. On page 3, I overlaid the curve from expired Fujifilm Neopan 400, exposed the same way as the Catlabs 320 Pro and processed in the same tank for 8 minutes. You can see much higher B+F density due to the type of film base itself and increased fog due to the the film aging.
6. The "ISO curve" and triangle are marked in pink on p. 3
7. There is a lot more detail that's not printed in the PDF, so please free to ask questions.
8. The plots on pages 8-10 are similar to those you get in the BTZS-type of anlalysis and are available in the application called WinPlotter. It's an old piece of software, but it has some really interesting functionality.
 

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mshchem

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Did Catlabs say "Germany"? They say "EU" instead.

If one understands "made in" as emulsion and coating made in the EU, and both done by same manufacturer, then these firms remain:

Adox
Agfa
Foma
Inoviscoat


Adox at the moment not even coat films of their own. They instead making a film for a competitor seems not likely. Not sure on them PET-base coating in Germany.

Switzerland isn't in the EU, correct?? I wonder if Adox is doing something? Maybe not this particular film. I think the business model of Adox is getting better, trying to find younger talent is I'm sure a challenge. The former Cibachrome outfit is pretty cool!
 

AgX

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You failed to see the question in the post. Who makes ADOX?

I did not fail to see the question, I just did not answer it as it should not be a problem for you to answer it yourself...
But likely I know will be blamed for talking like Catlabs...
 

pbromaghin

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Mr. Hecht, I do wonder why it is rated at 320 but recommended to shoot at 200. Why not just rate it at 200?
 
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...if I wanted to convince people to switch to my new film, I'd show more examples of how well it does many of the other things too...

I wouldn't be surprised if Omer started this thread for the pure entertainment value of seeing how self-important PHOTRIO members would react, rather than with any serious expectation of convincing anyone to switch to it from other films. :smile:
 
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