Bulk film loader

[kate swart]

Hi, I received a King bulk film loader today but cannot find any information on it. Is it any good ?

 

[Donald Qualls]

I don't know of any genuinely bad bulk loaders -- there are basically two types, the Watson style and the Lloyd style.

Do you have a picture of the one you got?

 

[AgX]

There are differences. Both in features they bear, but also in design of the light trap.

Bulk loader as such have benefits and shortcomings. They are not necessary for bulk-loading.

 

[AgX]

The King loader has two meters, both for the number of fra,es loaded, and the resting film. Thus being better equipped.

One way of meteringh the resting length of film is done from the thickness of the roll, which is depending on the core and thickness of film-base.
At the King this is instead seemingly done by counting frames.

 

[faberryman]

I have an old Lloyds which doesn't have all the fancy counters but still loads film fine provided you can count to 31. I load cassettes until I run out of film and then put another spool of film in and continue along my way. And no, I don't have scratches on my film from the felt light trap because I don't store it in a used vacuum cleaner bag. Of course, you can store the newer ones with the counters and stuff in a used vacuum cleaner bag if you want to because they are better designed. Just don't store your film cassettes in there too.

 

[mgb74]

One advantage of the Lloyds felt trap type is that you lose less film. The Watson type, if loading in the light, will fog what the camera thinks is the last frame. (Which will be, of course, the best shot on the roll.) So you need to pay attention to what the camera counter says.

 

[mshchem]

I have an old Lloyds which doesn't have all the fancy counters but still loads film fine provided you can count to 31. I load cassettes until I run out of film and then put another spool of film in and continue along my way. And no, I don't have scratches on my film from the felt light trap because I don't store it in a used vacuum cleaner bag. Of course, you can store the newer ones with the counters and stuff in a used vacuum cleaner bag if you want to because they are better designed. Just don't store your film cassettes in there too.

 

[cmacd123]

One advantage of the Lloyds felt trap type is that you lose less film. The Watson type, if loading in the light, will fog what the camera thinks is the last frame. .

I normally always turn out the lights for the switch of Cassettes, Just for that reason. (I use an Alden 200, which is more substantial and also has a larger lighttrap.)

the Lloyd stile loaders do have the felt trap which touches the film, the Alden/Watson etc loaders in theory allow the film to pass the light trap, only touching it when the door is open. I have never seen a Bobinquick loader in the flesh, so I don't know what that style uses for a trap.

one thing to watch for, I have a couple of Watsons that came as part of random darkroom equipment that have a chip in the bakelight, would wold make a nasty mess of a roll of film. so check out any used loader very carefully.

 

[pentaxuser]

The King loader has two meters, both for the number of fra,es loaded, and the resting film. Thus being better equipped.

At the King this is instead seemingly done by counting frames.

AgX have you got a links to this loader and instructions as to how it is loaded. In my case this question is prompted by curiosity but in the case of the OP I think the OP is looking for help in how to load this bulk loader

So far it seems the OP hasn't had much help in this aspect

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[AgX]

I learned of it just to today. And my wisdom so far is based on photos on its outer, thus Kate's knowledge on it will be more than mine.
One question by Kate was "Is it good?". And all I can say is that its obvious features are good.

 

[cmacd123]

two dials make me think of the https://www.freestylephoto.biz/27326-Arista-35mm-Bulk-Film-Loader-Bobinquick-Junior bobinquick.

MACO has a Utube video showing the use of the Kaiser Version of the bobinquick... (they were all made by AP in Spain) Note that the video metions what steps MUST be done in teh dark, and also I belive that he cuts the film leder exactly on te wrong side, but compair with a factory loaded film to get that step right.

 

[AgX]

(they were all made by AP in Spain)

Kaiser and AP had/have some products in both their offers and it is not clear in those cases which is made by whom. But I assume the mechanical ones are made by Kaiser.

 

[Nitroplait]

two dials make me think of the https://www.freestylephoto.biz/27326-Arista-35mm-Bulk-Film-Loader-Bobinquick-Junior bobinquick.
...
(they were all made by AP in Spain) Note that the video metions what steps MUST be done in teh dark, and also I belive that he cuts the film leder exactly on te wrong side, but compair with a factory loaded film to get that step right.

I have an identical one; HANSA branded - it says Made in Japan. I'd be surprised if there were more than one factory producing these.
The model is sold under many more names: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/which-bulk-film-loader.156562/#post-2031924
If buying new, one should pay a little attention as there may be quite a price difference between brands.

 

[kate swart]

I don't know of any genuinely bad bulk loaders -- there are basically two types, the Watson style and the Lloyd style.

Do you have a picture of the one you got?

This is the one I got. Seems nice. I did put a roll of film through it and it scratched the film, maybe im just loading it wrong since the instructions is in Japanese.

The roll also came out blank but I believe that is because my developer is expired.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Okay, that's essentially a Lloyd type. If it's scratching, the felt lining the (double curved) film passage from the bulk roll chamber probably has grit in it (or your cassette velvets do). The sticky edge of a Post-It does a pretty good job on cassette velvet; I haven't yet had occasion to clean the felt in a Lloyd style loader.

BTW, there's a table around (or you can copy off eBay listings) for Lloyd loaders telling how many crank turns are needed for a given number of frames.

 

[Nitroplait]

Okay, that's essentially a Lloyd type. If it's scratching, the felt lining the (double curved) film passage from the bulk roll chamber probably has grit in it (or your cassette velvets do). The sticky edge of a Post-It does a pretty good job on cassette velvet; I haven't yet had occasion to clean the felt in a Lloyd style loader.

How do you determine that? To me it looks more advanced - like the Kaiser type with exposure- and remaining stock counters. I don't see any felt trap inside: https://aucview.aucfan.com/yahoo/w1036489361/

 

[kate swart]

How do you determine that? To me it looks more advanced - like the Kaiser type with exposure- and remaining stock counters. I don't see any felt trap inside: https://aucview.aucfan.com/yahoo/w1036489361/

The only felt type thingy I see is on the drum or cover but it looks clean to me. It seems like a nice loader with both frame and stock counter.

 

[kate swart]

Okay, that's essentially a Lloyd type. If it's scratching, the felt lining the (double curved) film passage from the bulk roll chamber probably has grit in it (or your cassette velvets do). The sticky edge of a Post-It does a pretty good job on cassette velvet; I haven't yet had occasion to clean the felt in a Lloyd style loader.

BTW, there's a table around (or you can copy off eBay listings) for Lloyd loaders telling how many crank turns are needed for a given number of frames.

The person who gave it to me told me he used it once but it scratched the film thats why hes not using it anymore. Im sure there must be a way to fix the scratching. From what I see some people are having no problems with scratching or bulk loaders and others dont recommend it so not sure what to think of it. I would love to sucessfully load my own film rolls.

 

[AgX]

I would love to sucessfully load my own film rolls.

Then forget about this and any loader, and load without such.

 

[Donald Qualls]

How do you determine that? To me it looks more advanced - like the Kaiser type with exposure- and remaining stock counters. I don't see any felt trap inside: https://aucview.aucfan.com/yahoo/w1036489361/

I hadn't seen the auction photos previously. They weren't linked up thread.

This, then, is not quite either a Lloyd or Watson type -- Lloyd shaped, but Watson operation. Scratching can come from failing to open the film gate while winding into the cassette or dragging the film over the counter sprockets, just as it would in a Watson/Weston. There are videos on YouTube showing how to operate that style of loader.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Then forget about this and any loader, and load without such.

I've been loading my own successfully with Watson type loaders for years. Just got a Lloyd type, don't expect any different results.

 

[pentaxuser]

Frankly Kate I cannot see your loader clearly enough to tell what kind it is. Is it possible to brighten the very dark picture and show us the other side as well?
When you open it does it have a number of corners in the path from the bulk roll to the outside? If it has then it is probably a labyrinthine type which doesn't need any felt as light cannot turn enough corners to affect any of the film except close to the mouth of the loader

With labyrinthine ones they are more difficult, in my experience to load in the dark but they avoid any dust and grit sticking and scratching the film

pentaxuser

 

[AgX]

I loaded all my films for years without even knowing of a loader. I have posted so much about this, just again in detail the last days, hinting at benefits and shortcomings of loaders that meanwhile I get tired by this.
I sent Kate a PM...

 

[Donald Qualls]

Those who have a changing bag but no darkroom will likely find it hard to roll film directly into cassettes without a loader (it's annoying enough to get the bulk roll into the loader's chamber in a bag). Just saying.

 

[AgX]

I did not know of a changing bag either.... and I did not have a darkroom...