backing paper numbers show on negatives.

Prof_Pixel

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If you look at the links in Old-N-Feeble's recent posting, it's been going on for a long time in other manufacturers' products
 
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Punker

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I wish I'd have seen this thread last night after I developed a roll of Ektar. Though in my case it may just have been the fact that I started this roll in August last year and it sat in the camera in my occasionally hot room (no A/C) for all these months... That could also explain the odd color shifts.

 

pentaxuser

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What are the odd colour shifts? Thanks

pentaxuser
 

Old-N-Feeble

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PE, google searches will find the very same problem with both color and monochrome films from multiple manufacturers and has been happening for a very long time. IMO, (I'm speculating) this is purely an issue caused by whatever company makes the backing papers. That stated, the responsibility still sits with the company who's name is on the film box.
 

Old-N-Feeble

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Photo Engineer said:
I agree! Completely!

OTOH, you do not know how complex and vague the tests can be.

PE
Click to expand...

That's very true, PE. However, even circumstantial evidence can eventually accumulate to a point that virtually no other conclusions may be drawn.
 

RattyMouse

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Wow....Ektar too.
 

Photo Engineer

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Note from the references to other forums that other manufacturers are having the same problem. The reports seem to have started about one year ago which indicates that film from about 2 years ago are involved and it spreads over 3 manufacturers at the minimum.

PE
 

Old-N-Feeble

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Yes, and it I'll wager it's more widespread than that. At least this crisis isn't as extreme as THIS ONE
 

Old-N-Feeble

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Tomfrh, apparently you don't know PE very well. He'll be the first to suggest Kodak make good on this issue and has done so many times despite his loyalty to EKO. Other brands have indeed experienced the very same problem and it's not just black-and-white films. It's my opinion that this issue is cause solely by the paper/ink. That doesn't excuse Kodak/Alaris or any other film manufacturer but it does (maybe) let us know what caused the problem.
 

tomfrh

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I agree with you Old-n-feeble.

I was just imagining how the kodak people would be feeling knowing they're not alone.
 

Old-N-Feeble

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I'm sure I missed this information: Is there more than one company making paper backing for 120 roll film? If so, does anyone know which company is making the papers for what film makers and particular films? Is there more than one paper manufacturer having this problem?
 

MattKing

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It appears that there is only one remaining supplier. That supplier has never been identified in anything I have seen - possibly because that is closely held information?
 

RPC

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The link to photo.net provided by Old-N-Feeble indicate the problem was occurring as long ago as 2010.
 

MattKing

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The problem has been around ever since numbers were printed on backing paper. Historically, wrapper offset happens when the film and backing paper get old and/or are exposed to heat and humidity that is significantly divergent from the recommended storage conditions. The current large increase in incidence of the problem is almost certainly due to a change in paper and/or ink formulation, but the older papers and inks still remain susceptible to wrapper offset resulting from storage and handling problems.

This is what complicates the matter. Examples posted on the internet may be due to interaction between the emulsion and the 2nd most recent ink/paper, may be due to interaction between the emulsion and the 2nd most recent ink/paper plus improper handling and storage or may be due solely to improper handling and storage. You cannot tell by just looking at an internet image. The formulation of the film may also be important - the emulsion of one film may make it more susceptible to interaction with the ink and paper than the formulation of another.

I could certainly understand why Kodak Alaris would not want to undertake the expense to recall Ektar 100, as an example, if its emulsion is such that only severely mistreated film would suffer from wrapper offset - i.e. if there was no greater susceptibility for that film than with the older ink and paper.
 

Photo Engineer

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Kodak is being foolish in not acknowledging this problem in public and not recalling all suspect film. I guess it is too costly. However, this has been an endemic problem with film since day 1 except for Agfa, Fuji, Ilford and Kodak. Now, it seems to have spread to these as well. They may have just changed over recently to outsourced paper. IDK.

PE
 

MattKing

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PE

When I worked in retail back in the 1970s and 1980s I used to see it back in the day with Kodak film as well. It wasn't common, but it was always the typical "left in the glove compartment in our rental car during our vacation in Hawaii" type of film.

And the customer always blamed Kodak, of course.
 

Punker

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pentaxuser said:
What are the odd colour shifts? Thanks

pentaxuser
Click to expand...

There seems to be a magenta cast along the outer edges and a green one at the top. Color balancing the building in the back to white turned the sky a weird color so I left it the way you saw it.

PE, who do I contact at Kodak? Thanks.
 

Photo Engineer

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Punker, the upper edge of your picture seems to be a stain of some sort due to irregular agitation or perhaps contact with a reel.

I'll guess that the process you used had a blix and not a bleach then fix. Am I right?

If so the building color is explained, but if not it just reinforces the process problem.

With a blix, silver metal can be left behind leaving odd colors to whites.

PE
 
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