Any cheap 110 cameras with sharp lenses? Other than Pentax Auto 110?

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ic-racer

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16mm B&W negative film is available in bulk rolls, if one does not want to split. Price is pretty reasonable. This single perf film works in all 16mm still cameras of which I am aware.

I use either the Jobo 16mm reels or the single-spiral Stainless Steel reels. The nice thing about the SS reels is that if you load it so the perforations are toward the spiral, the image portion does not touch anything. Yes, two of the 16mm reels fit nicely in a 35mm SS tank.

Screen Shot 2020-11-14 at 10.37.33 AM.png
 
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Craig75

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16mm B&W negative film is available in bulk rolls, if one does not want to split. Price is pretty reasonable. This single perf film works in all 16mm still cameras of which I am aware.

I use either the Jobo 16mm reels or the single-spiral Stainless Steel reels. The nice thing about the SS reels is that if you load it so the perforations are toward the spiral, the image portion does not touch anything. Yes, two of the 16mm reels fit nicely in a 35mm SS tank.

View attachment 259400

Theres a number of 16mm cameras that need double perf and sadly some of those are at the top of the line models.

Mec 16 does and i think minicord does too.
 

ic-racer

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Good pickup, thanks for the corrections. Looks like indeed, the film drive of the minicord uses both sets of sprocket holes. The sad thing about cameras that use the double perf 16mm is the opening is not much bigger than Minox (which expects film with no perfs.) 10mmx10mm vs 8mmx11mm.
I'd probably restate that the cameras with some sort of cam to space the frames can use the single perf film.

Screen Shot 2020-11-14 at 1.40.51 PM.png
 

ProgramPlus

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That Kodak bulk film above does indeed seem like a pretty good deal. All the cameras I would use dont require perforated film. Do the perf show up on the scan? What iso is that? The Pentax Auto 110 use iso 100 and 400 I believe so presumably if this were a lower iso I guess I’d be underexposed.
 

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I will confirm that the Minolta 16 family cameras (turns-counter film advance with a cam) work equally well with unperfed, single perf, or double perf, though you'll get some intrusion of the perfs in the image area with double perf in the larger frame versions. With single perf, load the film with the perf edge toward the cassette bridge (that was the way Minolta did it, back when they still sold preloaded cassettes -- those were loaded with single perf universally, in my experience).

Oh, and I'd like to thank all of you guys for enabling. Today I bought a Pocket Instamatic 60 from eBay and four roll of Lomography 110 film (two Tiger color neg 200 and two Orca B&W 100). With luck, I should be able to reload those cassettes for a good while.

Looks like I'll have to improvise battery power, though -- unless it comes with one, the supply of K battery shells (i.e. dead batteries) seems to have dried up. I was looking at dimensions, though, and reading up, and came across a video from someone who made an external battery pack to connect 2xAA alkalines through a K shell -- apparently the camera works well on 3V if it's from cells that won't drop voltage too much when the auto exposure draws current; that means I can probably improvise a battery from 2xAAA -- they'll be tight in the chamber one direction, if they fit at all, but they aren't too long and I think I can shave the compartment a little if I have to. Hot glue or silicone a pair of cells with a strap soldered across to put them in series, add a strap to replace the side contact and an angle cap for the other; they should easily outlast the 3x357 that were in the original battery.
 

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That Kodak bulk film above does indeed seem like a pretty good deal. All the cameras I would use dont require perforated film. Do the perf show up on the scan? What iso is that? The Pentax Auto 110 use iso 100 and 400 I believe so presumably if this were a lower iso I guess I’d be underexposed.

I can never use kodaks site to save my life but if you go to this link that has a link to the official datasheet
https://www.frame24.co.uk/online-st...ack-&-White-Negative-100ft-33m-7222-p99568810

Someone will know better but i do think the perfs get into frame on 110.

Its 250 in daylight so you can shoot it at 100 with the traditional extra stop for luck or shoot it at 400 and peobably get away with some very sharp exposure. Small films really need a thin negative to maximise the quality so shooting a smidge under might work really well; either setting though should get you a shot.
 

ProgramPlus

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Just from pics online the K battery was short and fat right? Might have better luck taping together some 3v lithium watch style batteries +\- spacers.

Because of this thread I also made a purchase. Just bought a Minolta 16 PS that comes with a film cartridge.

I want to get a Minolta 16 QT and/or MG-S. Are cds meters pretty likely to be still working? I’d typically try to avoid selenium metered cameras like the regular MG but figure that these types of cameras are more likely to have been little used and spent their lives in cases (vs other selenium meter cameras).
 

Craig75

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Good pickup, thanks for the corrections. Looks like indeed, the film drive of the minicord uses both sets of sprocket holes. The sad thing about cameras that use the double perf 16mm is the opening is not much bigger than Minox (which expects film with no perfs.) 10mmx10mm vs 8mmx11mm.
I'd probably restate that the cameras with some sort of cam to space the frames can use the single perf film.

View attachment 259407

I dont know whether they used the double sprockets and the pressure plate to hold the film as tight and flat as possible. Mec prided themselves on the extremely high quality photos it could take, plus the lens was a focusing f2 rodenstock so it was a beast of a machine in specs (and size... its huge)

I dont think gami did tho and they were regarded as the ultimate 16mm cameras so im not sure how they did it but i think the italian military were quick off the mark with using subminiature cameras in modern warfare and surveillance so a lot of money was thrown at the problem.
 

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Not to get too far off of topic but I've found that the Pratika MTL3 runs 16mm just fine. It gives some very interesting results. I used it all summer with my lineup of screwmount lenses. 24mm will give you a really nice pano look.

So, it's not a 110 camera but it is cheap and takes 16mm film.
gvSpjDZ.jpg
 

AgX

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Not to get too far off of topic but I've found that the Pratika MTL3 runs 16mm just fine.

Would not all common 35mm SLRs do so ?
There is nothing special about the Praktica L-series on the matter of transport.
 

Cholentpot

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Would not all common 35mm SLRs do so ?
There is nothing special about the Praktica L-series on the matter of transport.

Nope.

Most will not run as there needs to be something engage a sprocket. Otherwise the film won't advance. The Praktika will just pull the film out of the canister regardless.
 

ciniframe

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Donald; would an N size 1.5v alkaline fit better? They are shorter than AAA but I'm not sure about the diameter.

Cholentpot; Wouldn't the 16mm film be running to close to the lens? With 35mm the edges of the film sit on the inner film rails which are usually a few thousands above the film gate. I would think that at larger apertures the image focus would not agree with the focusing screen focus.
 
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ProgramPlus

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With regards to the Kodak’s K battery I saw this on a Flickr post
“The Kodak Pocket Instamatic 60 takes a "K" battery which is no longer made. To make a replacement battery I taped three #357 button cells together and added aluminum metallic tape to the positive end to make contact with the camera. See subsequent photos for details. Verify that the camera is working by half-pressing the shutter and seeing if the aperture opens up in low light.”
 

AgX

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Nope.

Most will not run as there needs to be something engage a sprocket. Otherwise the film won't advance. The Praktika will just pull the film out of the canister regardless.

Thus you refer to the slitting of the take-up spool, that enables to feed a strip even in center? Otherwise all common SLRs have similar kind of friction clutch to drive the take-up spool.

Concerning the focusing, I forgot about the unfit perforations, and thus thought the strip would run with one rebated over the rail, but wondered why there was no effect of ill-focus at the opposite site.

If the strip runs center, showing off-focus effct, one could patch smooth tape at the sides of the film gate to lift up the film to proper height.
 
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Donald Qualls

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Someone will know better but i do think the perfs get into frame on 110.

The image area on 110 is offset slightly; if you load the perfs on the correct edge of the film it won't intrude in your image area. Whether you can do this and have your camera function correctly, however, depends on the camera; some use the stop finger to cock the shutter as well as stop the film advance; for those, you have to load the perfs to ride over the stop finger, and live with covering the lens and firing to advance four times per frame.

Just from pics online the K battery was short and fat right? Might have better luck taping together some 3v lithium watch style batteries +\- spacers.

I want to get a Minolta 16 QT and/or MG-S. Are cds meters pretty likely to be still working? I’d typically try to avoid selenium metered cameras like the regular MG but figure that these types of cameras are more likely to have been little used and spent their lives in cases (vs other selenium meter cameras).

The AAA cells are about 19mm shorter than the K battery -- overall length is 64+ mm, as I recall, while AAA are 45+. AAAA are the cells inside a 9V transistor battery; same length as AAA, I think, but about 1/3 smaller. If I can't make AAA work, AAAA is the backup plan. I might even be able to fabricate a drop-in battery case for 3xAAAA cells to run that camera.

The CdS cell in a QT is likely to still work, but in the one I have, the rest of the electronics appear to have failed -- I shelled out good money for a fresh 3V lithium cell the correct dimension to replace the 2-cell 3V mercury battery originally specified, but nothing worked even so, no lights, no needle movement. If you get one with good electronics, it should be possible to either fake a mount for a CR2032 or dig through Google and find the cell size for that lithium cell that will run that camera. The MGs uses the same selenium cell setup as the MG, as I recall.

Donald; would an N size 1.5v alkaline fit better? They are shorter than AAA but I'm not sure about the diameter.

No reason to need an N size here -- length isn't the fitment issue, it's diameter (2xAAA is almost a millimeter over the size of the K shell, which might or might not cause a problem in the camera).

With regards to the Kodak’s K battery I saw this on a Flickr post
“The Kodak Pocket Instamatic 60 takes a "K" battery which is no longer made. To make a replacement battery I taped three #357 button cells together and added aluminum metallic tape to the positive end to make contact with the camera. See subsequent photos for details. Verify that the camera is working by half-pressing the shutter and seeing if the aperture opens up in low light.”

Yep, I saw that. I'm after something that will be easier to find, cheaper, and have longer life than button cells. AAAA cells have more than three times the internal volume (=> chemistry capacity) of 357 button cells, AAA are bigger still. And I can buy AAA in regulated lithium form, if I'm willing to spend way too much to get absolute maximum battery life.
 

Cholentpot

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Donald; would an N size 1.5v alkaline fit better? They are shorter than AAA but I'm not sure about the diameter.

Cholentpot; Wouldn't the 16mm film be running to close to the lens? With 35mm the edges of the film sit on the inner film rails which are usually a few thousands above the film gate. I would think that at larger apertures the image focus would not agree with the focusing screen focus.

Never had a problem with focusing honestly. Even at wider apertures.

Thus you refer to the slitting of the take-up spool, that enables to feed a strip even in center? Otherwise all common SLRs have similar kind of friction clutch to drive the take-up spool.

Concerning the focusing, I forgot about the unfit perforations, and thus thought the strip would run with one rebated over the rail, but wondered why there was no effect of ill-focus at the opposite site.

If the strip runs center, showing off-focus effct, one could patch smooth tape at the sides of the film gate to lift up the film to proper height.

Most cameras have some sort of clutch that unless engaged the take-up spool won't pull. The MTL has no such thing.

Seems pretty sharp to me here. Then again, I don't really expect much from doing this. It's just a fun thing to do.
z8U8bUO.jpg
 

AgX

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Most cameras have some sort of clutch that unless engaged the take-up spool won't pull. The MTL has no such thing.

I have not come across a model where the take-up spool is not driven the moment the winding lever is engaged.
 

ProgramPlus

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Sounds like you’ve researched it pretty well. I saw the YouTube video where a guy cobbles together a harness using the case of an old battery or that people refill the old battery case with small cells. Just a quick search of ebay shows that it’s not too hard to find a camera with a battery still in it if that’s the route someone wanted to go (but maybe increase the chance that the camera is damaged from a battery leak). I like your solution better. I wondered if 2 aaa or a 123A battery would fit, then some combination of metal strip, hot glue and tape would complete a battery pack that fit without rattling around and made proper battery contact.
 

ProgramPlus

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The problem with the K battery had me thinking about other options in that style of camera. I know the Canon 110 ED has a great reputation but still seems to cost about $100 which is more than I wanted to spend. Anyone know how the Minolta Autopak camera’s compare to the Instamatic 60 for sharpness?
 

Cholentpot

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I have not come across a model where the take-up spool is not driven the moment the winding lever is engaged.

All I can say is try it yourself. I've got a couple dozen SLRs. Aside from the 90's whizbang autos that will eat anything the manual SLRs don't seem to work with film that is too small.

Look up unperforated film on this site. Same issues.
 

Quendil

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My favourite is the Minolta Mk2 110 zoom which I prefer over my Pentax 110. I don't think I paid more than £25 for it
 

AgX

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All I can say is try it yourself. I've got a couple dozen SLRs. Aside from the 90's whizbang autos that will eat anything the manual SLRs don't seem to work with film that is too small.
As said I did come across any such camera, and it does not make sense either, But a problem that I see and already hinted at is, that some take-up spools do not take small strips at center and/or need a peforation hole to arrest at a hook. This already will disqualify some 35 SLRs as "alternative" for a type 110 camera.
 

Cholentpot

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As said I did come across any such camera, and it does not make sense either, But a problem that I see and already hinted at is, that some take-up spools do not take small strips at center and/or need a peforation hole to arrest at a hook. This already will disqualify some 35 SLRs as "alternative" for a type 110 camera.

None of the manual Nikon, Pentax, Canon and Minolta cameras I have work so far with 16mm film. Argus C3 does though. I have not tried Olympus as of yet.
 
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