A Kiev-88 -- everything you didn't know about it...

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itsdoable

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Why then users replaced those seals by same stuff and did not mount a strip of velvet instead? ...
I'll point out that the Hasselblad dark slide light seal system includes a velvet strip, along with the foil and foam. The velvet strip also wears out. If you replace the foil and foam with another velvet strip, you will get light leaks.

OEM replacement seals came with a replacement velvet strip. Most after market kits do not.


<snip> ...While on the mid 60s, Rollei made it (SL66) already had a reliable FP MF camera (SL66)...
I have not worked on an SL66 yet, but every service tech I know that has work on both (Hasselblad V's and Rollei SL66's) tell me they do not want to work on the Rollei - you need +2x more time and spare parts.

Re: reliable shutter: yes, but the Rollei version came out ~20 years later, and takes up much more space, resulting in a larger camera. There are multiple patents held by Hasselblad to get that shutter into that body and maintain shutter speeds.


Re Kiev 88's:
- My Kueb-88 feels like I'm grinding walnuts when I wind it, but it keeps working. (in contrast, my Hasselblad 1000f is very smooth)
- My Hartblei version has stopped working, it needs the lube replaced as it dried out and the pneumatic vane does not engage.
- My Kiev-88cm with cloth shutter curtains has been working fine since new. (I'd better knock on wood... :wink:
 
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SL66 is indeed heavier and bigger than both Hasselblad and Kiev 88 (at least it feel that way to me). They are very nice cameras but if they start to fail it is not easy (or cheap) to fix it. Also very few technicians that service them. Moved from SL66 when it started to fail on me. My main body had a disconnected shutter button and probably curtain replacement. I was close to $900 for that.

Glass is amazing though. Really liked them; 40mm, 50mm and 80mm where my favorites.

Marcelo
 

Sirius Glass

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SL66 is indeed heavier and bigger than both Hasselblad and Kiev 88 (at least it feel that way to me). They are very nice cameras but if they start to fail it is not easy (or cheap) to fix it. Also very few technicians that service them. Moved from SL66 when it started to fail on me. My main body had a disconnected shutter button and probably curtain replacement. I was close to $900 for that.

Glass is amazing though. Really liked them; 40mm, 50mm and 80mm where my favorites.

Marcelo

I was interested in the SL66 and the Hasselblad and Samy's camera convinced me that service, parts and lenses were much more available with the Hasselblad, and the rest is history.
 

Chan Tran

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So the Kiev cameras were made where Ukraine is now right? So are they considered Ukrainian cameras or Russian cameras?
 
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well, neither actually. They are soviet cameras. They where created by order of the Soviet Union. Factory just happened to be on Ukraine (Kiev or kyiv, whatever you choose).

Correction ; Soviet Union.
 
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I was interested in the SL66 and the Hasselblad and Samy's camera convinced me that service, parts and lenses were much more available with the Hasselblad, and the rest is history.

I suppose that was the achilles heel of the whole concept. Hasselblad was the industry standard by the time Rollei ( Franke & Heidecke) jumped into the SLR wagon, Also, as stated before, F&H had to reinvented the wheel due to Hasselblad shutter and general camera design patents. (similar to Contax vs Leica design) Between the two, if SL66 parts and repair was as readily available as Hasselblad, I would choose the SL66. IMHO it covers both field and studio work better that Hasselblad (due to the bellows and some movement).
 

4season

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I liked SL66 when I had it, but quality seemed uneven, as if they had spent so much time fussing over details like the tilt mechanism and depth of field indicators, that they needed to make up for lost time by skimping on other details, like the lens locking mechanism, which didn't work very well, and the shutter release itself, which tended to have a loose, sloppy feel.
 
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I liked SL66 when I had it, but quality seemed uneven, as if they had spent so much time fussing over details like the tilt mechanism and depth of field indicators, that they needed to make up for lost time by skimping on other details, like the lens locking mechanism, which didn't work very well, and the shutter release itself, which tended to have a loose, sloppy feel.

That was my experience as well. It actually dissengaged due to a small drop (less that a feed, on my table) and fixing was like $450.00. I think the problem was not quality but the design itself.
 

AgX

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So the Kiev cameras were made where Ukraine is now right? So are they considered Ukrainian cameras or Russian cameras?

"Where Ukraine is now"?

Ukraine did not move, it still is where it was in 1945, actually it was founded in 1917.


Well, in the past I repeatedly urged to call those cameras either soviet or to use the right republic as origin, and was belittled for this.

Now, with suddenly international interest in Ukraine, such question arises by others...
In general concerning the USSR there was large influence by Russians on other, especially the rather small republics, so that a question like yours may be answered differently depending on subject.
 
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"Where Ukraine is now"?

Ukraine did not move, it still is where it was in 1945, actually it was founded in 1917.


Well, in the past I repeatedly urged to call those cameras either soviet or to use the right republic as origin, and was belittled for this.

Now, with suddenly international interest in Ukraine, such question arises by others...
In general concerning the USSR there was large influence by Russians on other, especially the rather small republics, so that a question like yours may be answered differently depending on subject.

I suppose yeah, if you speak about geographical, it would be ukranian. On the other hand, it does says "MADE ON USSR".
 

AgX

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As I said, call these soviet cameras or name the republic of origin.


However I tried to discuss such matter of origin or soviet identity with young people from former soviet republics and they did not even understood what I was talking about...
 

itsdoable

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3 decades of Kiev 88's...

3Decades_of_Kiev88s.JPG


Soviet on the left, and 2 Ukraine versions.
 

guangong

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I had a 1000F as my original Hasselblad. The entire shutter mechanism, as I later learned, was designed by a Swedish watchmaker,, and not up to the stresses of a camera shutter. As I remember, winding and firing shutter required a very strict sequence of manipulation. After my 1000F died in early 1960s, no Hassy until 2000FCM came out. The advantages at the time for me were that with a selection of Kilfit adapters I could use my Leitz, Zeiss, and Nikon lenses. Until digital created collapse of photo prices, I owned only a 60mm Hasselblad lens.

The success of the Hasselblad as a MF SLR system is how it fits comfortably into the hands. No matter whatever seals, etc.defects, no other MF SLR comes close.
 
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flavio81

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I was interested in the SL66 and the Hasselblad and Samy's camera convinced me that service, parts and lenses were much more available with the Hasselblad, and the rest is history.

Sounds like a reasonable choice. And of course he was right.
 
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flavio81

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The success of the Hasselblad as a MF SLR system is how it fits comfortably into the hands. No matter whatever seals, etc.defects, no other MF SLR comes close.

Um... i'd say the Bronica ETR series with the Speed grip and prism is as comfortable, Or more. And surely the more advanced Contax 645 MF SLRs should be more comfortable...

My Pentax 67 is also very comfortable with the small 90/2.8 lens,a right hand grip, and the chimney viewfinder. Weight is reasonable with this combination.
 
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Can confirm ETR series fits very comfortably on hand. Also, like stated, Speed grip and prism makes for a delightful experience. Not heavy and pretty balanced.
 
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flavio81

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Can confirm ETR series fits very comfortably on hand. Also, like stated, Speed grip and prism makes for a delightful experience. Not heavy and pretty balanced.

Forgot to mention that some weeks ago I tested a Pentacon Six with the Biometar 80mm and a WLF, and it was very light, easy to hold.
 

guangong

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Um... i'd say the Bronica ETR series with the Speed grip and prism is as comfortable, Or more. And surely the more advanced Contax 645 MF SLRs should be more comfortable...

My Pentax 67 is also very comfortable with the small 90/2.8 lens,a right hand grip, and the chimney viewfinder. Weight is reasonable with this combination.

Everyone ,can pick what works for them. I can’t identify the various Bronica models, but at the time that my Hasselblad 1000F died, Bronica at that time did not have a great reputation for reliability, although much better than 1000F. I played with the Pentax 67 for a while in the old Willoughby store on 48th st (can you imagine a time when camera stores had branches 16 blocks away?) trying out a variety of focal lengths that I use, and, for me, found it to be unwieldy. They are well built reliable cameras, and am glad you found a combo that works for you. Couldn’t afford Hassy until 2000FCM and could use lenses already on hand.
 
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flavio81

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Ok, i've since bought via Ebay a Salyut-S camera, so i'll report when it arrives.

Meanwhile, more information that some times is ommited.

Models:


1. The original Salyut. This camera has in fact many variants, the first had the self timer, and then the release of the self-timer went through variations as well. The later ones came without self timer. The lenses use a semi-automatic diaphragm (needs to be cocked). First versions have 1500 top speed, later ones 1000 top speed.,

2. Salyut-S. This one allows use of lenses with automatic diaphragm. But, also, allos the older Salyut lenses to be fitted. The mechanism incorporates improvements similar to the ones that Hasseblad did when upgrading from the 1600F to the 1000F.

3. Kiev-88. This one is essentially similar to a Salyut-S, with some internal mechanical modifications and the mount will not support Salyut lenses anymore: it lacks the extra groove for the old aperture actuator. Includes hot shoe. On later models the X-F flash selecton has been omitted.

Mechanical modifications: "The Kiev 80/88 saw a further redesign of the winding mechanism, introducing a small pin which engaged with a sprung dog. This pin took the full load of winding the shutter curtains and was prone to wear/snapping, the symptoms being the shutter releasing as it is wound, or just the mirror being set as the shutter knob is wound on" (source)

Lens mount

Lens went through two distinct phases:

a. Semi-automatic diaphragm lenses for the Salyut
b. Fully-automatic lenses for the Salyut-S and Kiev-88

The lens mount is similar to the one in the Hasselblad 1600F/1000F. The lenses can be modified to fit the hassys. Probably hasselblad 1600/1000F mount can be modified to mount on Kievs too.

The semi-automatic lenses (a) cannot be mounted in the Kiev-88 unless the diaphragm actuator at the rear of the lens is removed.

The lenses can be adapted to Pentacon Six mount by use of an adapter ring, but not the other way around.

Standard lenses

In short the list in chronological order:

1. Industar-29 80/2.8. Tessar design (4/3 optical schema), single coated, semi-automatic diaphragm.
2. Vega-12B 90/2.8. Xenotar/Biometar design (5/4). Single coated, auto-diaphragm.
3. Volna-3B 80/2.8. Deluxe Gauss design (6/5). Multicoated
4. Arsat 80/2.8. In theory, same as (3).

Also there's the Vega-28 120/2.8, multicoated, contemporary to (3)

Backs

Essentially two type of backs:

1. Original back - spacing depends on film thickness and thus should be recalibrated.
2. NT ("New Technology") back. Entirely different, has provision for multiple exposure, measures how far the film has actually traveled so doesn't rely on film thickness. Has film label compartment in the back.

It is reported that early Hasselblad 1600F backs will fit.

Backs came with the same serial number as the camera, and the secondary back (part of the kit) had also the same number with an "A" at the end.

Also, it's guaranteed that backs of the type (1) will leak light if they haven't been serviced, this due to the light seal foam for the dark slide deteriorating. Service is easy, you can do it yourself.

Viewfinders

This is not an exhaustive list, but this is what i've found

1. Waist level finder
2. Prism finder without meter.
3. TTL meter
4. TTL meter, including spot meter.

There are variations on the TTL meter taking three (3) different kind of batteries.

Finders can fit the Hasselblad 1600/1000F and even the 500C series and viceversa.

Other accesories

1. Pistol grip
2. Lateral (L) grip.


In space

Just like their swedish ancestors, the Salyut cameras went to space several times, in 1964, 1966, 1967, maybe other years.

Pictured is the Salyut-1B

1654924367664.png
 
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Tel

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I had a Salyut-S maybe 15 years ago. A nice enough camera and mine had been well maintained so it was pretty reliable. But in the end it convinced me to buy a Bronica.
 
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