A Kiev-88 -- everything you didn't know about it...

[flavio81]

When my 1000F died, there were no regrets, except for no longer being able to use my Leitz, Zeiss, Kilfitt, and Nikon lenses via adapters. When Hasselblad introduced 2000FCM able to use lenses.

Leitz? This is the first time I hear the mention of Leitz having manufactured a medium format lens.

As far as I know Leitz only manufactured amateur-format lenses.

 

[flavio81]

I just received a Kiev 88 (Kueb 88). I'm pairing it to a Kodak Ektar 80mm preset lens from the 1600f/1000f era (1949). A 4/3 Tessar that's presumably better than the Zeiss that followed it. Had to relube the helicoid on the Ektar, it was very stiff.

Shot a roll despite the back having issues (sigh... at least the shutter is ok). The lens needs to go past the lock and focuses a bit passed infinity. Looks pretty good at infinity and need to test it further for portraits.

@flavio81 how did your test go? If you have pointers on how to service the back it would be great. Mine also feels crunchy like @itsdoable , plus the manual winder doesn't work. And how did you check for focus accuracy?

If you're fitting such a luxury, famous, high-performance, zeiss-pounding lens such as a KODAK EKTAR, make sure to calibrate the focusing screen height to the particular back you're going to use.

The "Kiev survival site" has documentation on how to disassemble the back. If you don't find it, write me.

 

[OAPOli]

Thanks @flavio81 . I looked at the archived "Kiev Survival Site" but there was no info about the Kiev 88? At any rate I was able to disassemble the back. Now I have to figure out what I'm looking at. I did make a thread about my issues; I'm not even sure what is the correct behaviour for the back!

I'm also trying to check for focus accuracy. I put a clear piece of film on the pressure plate with some markings on it, inline with the peephole. With a second camera with lens at infinity (the collimator) I can check when the marking are sharpest. 50ft on the lens, but on the screen a distant object is a bit further on the scale.

 

[Kino]

I have 1 x 88CM and 2 x 88 bodies winging their way back from Arax and war-torn Ukraine as I type. Been waiting years to have them serviced, so I had all 3 CLA'd, the bodies flocked and new Titanium Shutters installed.

I also splurged for an adapter and the modified bayonette ring to use my 88 "screw mount" lenses on my Kiev 60 body.

Soon, I will be able to shoot with my Arsat 30mm lens that has been gathering dust for several years, never-used. The week I purchased this lens, the sole functioning 88 body jammed-solid and I never got to shoot with it!

Shout-out to Gevorg Vartanian and the others at ARAX! Working in a war zone must be brutal, but they endure...

Merry Christmas to myself, indeed!

 

[guangong]

Leitz? This is the first time I hear the mention of Leitz having manufactured a medium format lens.

As far as I know Leitz only manufactured amateur-format lenses.

Believe it or not, the 90mm Elmarit, the 180mm, and the 400mm Telyt do cover the Hassy format. My only Hassy lens for a very long time was the 60mm, otherwise Kilfit 90mm Macro-Kilar and other non Hasselblad lenses on my 2000FCM. Some were also used earlier on my1000F. I only acquired other Hassy lenses when I bought a CM camera. I bought 80, 150, and 250 on eBay. Seller was closing an estate sale and these lenses were an unforeseen bargain.

 

[flavio81]

Thanks @flavio81 . I looked at the archived "Kiev Survival Site" but there was no info about the Kiev 88? At any rate I was able to disassemble the back. Now I have to figure out what I'm looking at. I did make a thread about my issues; I'm not even sure what is the correct behaviour for the back!

I'm also trying to check for focus accuracy. I put a clear piece of film on the pressure plate with some markings on it, inline with the peephole. With a second camera with lens at infinity (the collimator) I can check when the marking are sharpest. 50ft on the lens, but on the screen a distant object is a bit further on the scale.

Réparation d'un dos amovible de Kiev 88

Kiev 88 back repair

www.suaudeau.eu

You're welcome

 

[OAPOli]

Réparation d'un dos amovible de Kiev 88

Kiev 88 back repair

www.suaudeau.eu

You're welcome

Thanks!

 

[itsdoable]

Leitz? This is the first time I hear the mention of Leitz having manufactured a medium format lens.

As far as I know Leitz only manufactured amateur-format lenses.

200mm f/4

They also make a series of S lenses for medium format (... the cropped digital version, anyways...)

 

[flavio81]

200mm f/4
View attachment 324562

They also make a series of S lenses for medium format (... the cropped digital version, anyways...)

Looking at the size of that 200, i don't think the wide open performance at the corners would be as good as a real 6x6 200/4mm lens.

I have a 200/4.5 lens for the Bronica ETR system (6x4.5 format, smaller than 6x6). This is a lens for a smaller format and slower, yet it's bigger than the 200/4 Leitz pictured.

The fact that it covers 6x6 doesn't mean it would do it as well as a real 6x6 lens.

So, I know this lens conversion is doable, however... why? why?!?! For the Hasselblad one has the Zeiss lenses which are as good as they can be. Kodak lenses, even better. And IMO Zeiss (the ones made in germany) > Leitz, always.

 

[choiliefan]

The old Leitz 135mm Hektor is supposed to cover 4X5 so 6X6 shouldn't be a problem with it either, coverage-wise at least.

 

[relistan]

Good thread, thanks @flavio81! To note is that the later 88CM has a black cloth curtain for both less shake and better anti-reflection properties, and is fully flocked in the light box. Gevorg at ARAX can install a better fitting Pentacon six mount that enables all P6 lenses. The original Kiev version won’t even fit a Biometar 80mm. The later NT backs don’t have the red window and are fully automatic. They also have a slot to stick the dark slide when shooting. Alas, same garbage light seals.

 

[flavio81]

Good thread, thanks @flavio81! To note is that the later 88CM has a black cloth curtain for both less shake and better anti-reflection properties, and is fully flocked in the light box. Gevorg at ARAX can install a better fitting Pentacon six mount that enables all P6 lenses. The original Kiev version won’t even fit a Biometar 80mm. The later NT backs don’t have the red window and are fully automatic. They also have a slot to stick the dark slide when shooting. Alas, same garbage light seals.

The NT backs are reported to be much more problematic, reliability-wise.

As for the P6 mount, yes it's good if you have Pentacon Six lenses, but there are very good lenses on the regular Salyut/K88 mount, use a Vega 90/2.8 or an Arsat 80/2.8 and you won't miss the Biometar too much.

 

[relistan]

The NT backs are reported to be much more problematic, reliability-wise.

As for the P6 mount, yes it's good if you have Pentacon Six lenses, but there are very good lenses on the regular Salyut/K88 mount, use a Vega 90/2.8 or an Arsat 80/2.8 and you won't miss the Biometar too much.

Yes, I have had a Kiev 88CM for many years, bought new. I was just trying to add some additional information that wasn't mentioned in the post. I have both the Arsat 80mm and 45mm, an 80mm Biometar, and a 50mm Flektogon. The Volna/Arsat 80mm is a nice lens. The Biometar 80mm is a nice lens. For $45 from ARAX you can use both. I have had to repair both of my Arsat lenses due to sticking aperture blades. I have never had to repair the Zeiss Jena lenses. One of my NT backs was serviced by ARAX but the other has been problem free for many years.

 

[itsdoable]

The NT backs are reported to be much more problematic, reliability-wise.

As for the P6 mount, yes it's good if you have Pentacon Six lenses, but there are very good lenses on the regular Salyut/K88 mount, use a Vega 90/2.8 or an Arsat 80/2.8 and you won't miss the Biometar too much.

Oddly, my NT back has been more reliable, the old version’s manual wind clutch spring would always break. The NT also worked on the Hasselblad, allowing you to start a little past the beginning of the film without screwing up the spacing. Useful for daylight processors.

I have a Vega 2.8/90 and 2 Volna 2.8/80s, as well as 2 Biometar 2.8/80s, and the Biometar are definitely better, especially off center at larger apertures. I also have 2 Vega 2.8/120 and 2 Biometar 2.8/120s and again, the Biometars are better, although here the difference is less. The Vega is smaller and heavier, the Biometar is sharper and has smoother bokeh.

The Leitz 4/200 above has better image quality than the Volna’s I have, and is close to the Biometars. At the time the Leitz 4/200 was produced, there wasn’t much available for the Hasselblad (135 sonar), so it was a viable option.

 

[flavio81]

Oddly, my NT back has been more reliable, the old version’s manual wind clutch spring would always break. The NT also worked on the Hasselblad, allowing you to start a little past the beginning of the film without screwing up the spacing. Useful for daylight processors.

I have a Vega 2.8/90 and 2 Volna 2.8/80s, as well as 2 Biometar 2.8/80s, and the Biometar are definitely better, especially off center at larger apertures. I also have 2 Vega 2.8/120 and 2 Biometar 2.8/120s and again, the Biometars are better, although here the difference is less. The Vega is smaller and heavier, the Biometar is sharper and has smoother bokeh.

The Leitz 4/200 above has better image quality than the Volna’s I have, and is close to the Biometars. At the time the Leitz 4/200 was produced, there wasn’t much available for the Hasselblad (135 sonar), so it was a viable option.

Thanks for this info, much appreciated.

 

[Mandibela]

What a good thread, thanks for you all. Now to find a thread for kiev-88 repair…

 

[SilenWin]

This is my 1983 KueB body with a Phase-One P30 digital back. It triggers off the FP shutter sync, which none of my later bodies have (they only have "X"), so I get full functionality. I had to widen the film gate a bit, as the original Hasselblads (1600f & 1000F) had a smaller film gate which was copied by Kiev - the Hasselblad backs fit all the bodies, but the P1 digital backs require the larger film gate.

Eventually, I'll modify my 88cm to an FP sync, that way I can use the better Zeiss lenses. The above setup is let down by the optical quality of the original K88 lenses - which are good but not great.

Then I'll modify a Hasselblad 2000 series for FP shutter sync so I can use a 2/110 - and look for a P45/P65, and...

Sorry for bump, but I'm curious about your experience with Kiev88.

I inherited a Kiev88 camera with an X-Fp switch, and I would like to know how you adapted it to work with the Phase One P30.
Do I need to modify the camera itself?
What kind of sync cable did you use?

There is a Phase One P30 digital back for sale in my city now, but I don't know if it will work with the Kiev88. Here is a photo from the seller:

I would be very grateful for any information or help.

 

[itsdoable]

Sorry for bump, but I'm curious about your experience with Kiev88.

I inherited a Kiev88 camera with an X-Fp switch, and I would like to know how you adapted it to work with the Phase One P30.
Do I need to modify the camera itself?
What kind of sync cable did you use?

There is a Phase One P30 digital back for sale in my city now, but I don't know if it will work with the Kiev88. Here is a photo from the seller:

View attachment 380357

I would be very grateful for any information or help.

Unfortunately no, that is a digital back for a Hasselblad-H camera, you need a back for the Hasselblad-V bodies, as the Kiev is a close copy of one of the early models.

 

[SilenWin]

Oh well... Thank you!

Unfortunately no, that is a digital back for a Hasselblad-H camera, you need a back for the Hasselblad-V bodies, as the Kiev is a close copy of one of the early models.

Do you have any photos of your P30 back for reference?

 

[itsdoable]

Oh well... Thank you!

Do you have any photos of your P30 back for reference?

The P30 pictures I have are in this thread.

But I'm guessing you are interested in the interface of the back, which can be seen on the internet by searching "Hasselblad V" and "Hasselblad H" digital backs. Here are 2 pictures off the internet:

Hasselblad V digital back

Hasselblad H digital back

These image are links to current eBay listings, so they will not stay around for long.
{Moderator's note - see following post}

The Hassleblad V digital backs are unique in that they have a mechanical wake-up sensor when the shutter button pin enters the back.

 

[MattKing]

Screen grabs of the above images, for longevity:

Hasselblad V digital back:

Hasselblad H digital back:

 

[abruzzi]

So the moderator screengrabs images of digital backs so this thread in the analog section doesn't lose them?

Not that I care since my digital backs are both Mamiya/Phase 5 mount. (One goes on my Arca Swiss F-Classic 6x9, and the other goes on my Mamiya 645DF+)

 

[MattKing]

So the moderator screengrabs images of digital backs so this thread in the analog section doesn't lose them?

Not that I care since my digital backs are both Mamiya/Phase 5 mount. (One goes on my Arca Swiss F-Classic 6x9, and the other goes on my Mamiya 645DF+)

If there is more discussion, we can create a new thread, and copy and/or move them.

 

[itsdoable]

So the moderator screengrabs images of digital backs so this thread in the analog section doesn't lose them?

Not that I care since my digital backs are both Mamiya/Phase 5 mount. (One goes on my Arca Swiss F-Classic 6x9, and the other goes on my Mamiya 645DF+)

Hee hee.. and here we are discussing this on a digital platform.

Conversations wander, and dipping your toes into digital sometimes brings you back to film. I guess that's why we are Photrio, instead of APUG...

 

[MattKing]

Hee hee.. and here we are discussing this on a digital platform.

But in the wrong location on Photrio.
If it continues, we will have to move it here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/forums/misc-hybrid-discussions.394/