A Kiev-88 -- everything you didn't know about it...

[SMD]

The Mamiya 645 would be a good platform for Kiev 60 and 88 lenses, because of its focal plane shutter and short flange to film distance. Relatively inexpensive adapters are available for this purpose.

I found adapters for Pentacon Six/Kiev60 lenses to the Mamiya 645 but never for adapting Kiev 88 lenses.

 

[SMD]

I also splurged for an adapter and the modified bayonette ring to use my 88 "screw mount" lenses on my Kiev 60 body.

Wait... you use K88 lenses on a K60? Changed the mount on the K60?

 

[reddesert]

I found adapters for Pentacon Six/Kiev60 lenses to the Mamiya 645 but never for adapting Kiev 88 lenses.

You might need to adapt the K88 lenses to the K60/Pentacon Six mount and then to the M645. Arax sells an adapter for Kiev 88 lenses to Kiev 60 / Kiev 88CM / P6. My understanding is that Arax thinks you should replace the breechlock ring on the K60 to fit Kiev 88 lenses and also sells that replacement ring, but I've never actually bought that adapter.

 

[itsdoable]

Wait... you use K88 lenses on a K60? Changed the mount on the K60?

The K88 and P6 mounts are very close, the open aperture pin is in the same location (although not always the same travel). Since the K88 threads are a smaller diameter than the P6 breech mount, you can make an adapter to fit a K88 lens into a P6 breech mount. Here is my K88-P6 adapter.

Here it is mounted on the lens.

I've never had a K60, so no idea if you need a replacement lock ring.

 

[SMD]

The K88 and P6 mounts are very close, the open aperture pin is in the same location (although not always the same travel). Since the K88 threads are a smaller diameter than the P6 breech mount, you can make an adapter to fit a K88 lens into a P6 breech mount.

I know those adapters. The problem is they cost the same as a lens with P6 bayonet. At least if you are in Europe and buy the lens here but have to import the adapter from overseas.
Therefore the only method I see to exploit the price gap between equivalent P6 vs. K88 lenses is to change the mount of a Pentacon Six or Kiev 60. So far nobody did this, therefore I was wondering if Kino did it.

 

[SMD]

Arax thinks you should replace the breechlock ring on the K60 to fit Kiev 88 lenses and also sells that replacement ring, but I've never actually bought that adapter.

I did not know about that. Searched it. You mean this: https://araxfoto.com/accessories/arax-ring/
Unfortunately it still requires an adapter on every K88 lens, and that eats up the price gap between the going prices for P6 vs. K88 lenses.

 

[Kino]

Wait... you use K88 lenses on a K60? Changed the mount on the K60?

Sorry, on the road and didn’t see this.

I changed the mounting ring and use the very thin adapter ring. Very simple modification that won’t affect the “normal” operation.

Don’t remember it being terribly expensive but that’s been a while ago.

It’s worth it to me, as I only have one lens for the 6C, but about 6 for the 88. Now I can use the lenses on both.

I only have one ring and just change it with the lens.

 

[neilt3]

I know those adapters. The problem is they cost the same as a lens with P6 bayonet. At least if you are in Europe and buy the lens here but have to import the adapter from overseas.
Therefore the only method I see to exploit the price gap between equivalent P6 vs. K88 lenses is to change the mount of a Pentacon Six or Kiev 60. So far nobody did this, therefore I was wondering if Kino did it.

The adapter is about £30 , I have one .
I'd like to know where you can buy the 30mm fisheye lens for £30 , or most of the others for that matter .
It's no big deal to move the adapter from one lens to another , so if you already have the lens in a Kiev 88 mount , as most of mine are , why would I buy an extra lens of each that I own to use on my Kiev 60 I bought some years later ?

Over a the years I picked up most lenses for the Kiev 88 after buying it about twenty years ago .
No point doubling up lenses for the k60..

 

[SMD]

I changed the mounting ring and use the very thin adapter ring. Very simple modification that won’t affect the “normal” operation.

Is the mount on the K60 not shimmed?

Will it work on a Pentacon Six too? What is the reason for the thinner mounting ring?

How good does all this fit together? I am a bit reluctant to the one ring for all lenses; as we all know the tolerances on soviet gear are not exactly tight in praxis. I am ok to fit the ring so that it works and it remains on that lens, but not to fummble around with changing it from one lens to another. Often the lenses themselves have to be arranged, sometimes the iris actuator pin is some mm not where it is on another lens, sometimes it is shorter, etc.

Sorry for the many questions.

 

[SMD]

The adapter is about £30 , I have one .

The adapter is $34 + $44 shipping + 20% VAT + customs handling fee.

I'd like to know where you can buy the 30mm fisheye lens for £30 , or most of the others for that matter .

Never paid more than 50€ for a Kiev88 lens when bought individually. At the moment I know some for 60€ but if you buy them all, probably the seller will go down in price. I thought about buying the 65 mm (Mir) as that is the only one I don't own. But I guess I can live without. Do you recommend it?

I bought my K88 gear 2006 for 100€ in an 80 cm high photo backpack, only that worth that money. It included one working and one non-working body but both with the standard 80 mm (Arsat) lens, two 45 mm, one 120 mm (Vega), one 150 mm (Kaleinar) and the extremly rare 500 mm APO. Also with 6 backs 6x6, a pistol grip, a left side grip, an original (aka labeled for) K88 Polaroid back. Later I bought both 250 mm (Jupiter-36 and don't ask me the other's name, the newer one), each corresponding to 40€. Then I somehow got a Vega-12 90 mm and I think it is a way better lens compared with the Arsat. For a long time than I looked for a 6x4,5 back but never used it once.
All completly irrelevant as today the prices are different.

I had the opportunity to buy the Zodiak multiple times in all of the price phases of which I see 3: first one when nobody knew about it and it cost the same as every other P6/K88 lens; second one when it became discussed on newsgroups and it became the most expensive lens of the lot but still relativeley cheap; the third when the price skyrocketed.
I always declined as I consider it a shitty lens. I want straight lines to be straight, not bent.
In an unexpected turn of things now I got one as a bybought with some Yashica TLRs and Praktica VLC. Only problem, the previous owner modified it for his Hasselblad by turning the mount on a lathe. Need to construct it back or buy a Hassi.

It's no big deal to move the adapter from one lens to another , so if you already have the lens in a Kiev 88 mount , as most of mine are , why would I buy an extra lens of each that I own to use on my Kiev 60 I bought some years later ?

Over a the years I picked up most lenses for the Kiev 88 after buying it about twenty years ago .
No point doubling up lenses for the k60..

I described why I fear this process of swapping the adapter from one lens to the other in my answer to Kino.

 

[itsdoable]

<snip>I thought about buying the 65 mm (Mir) as that is the only one I don't own. But I guess I can live without. Do you recommend it?<snip>

I have the Mir38 version, optically it's good, but mechanically, mine is pretty sad - the apertures are completely off.

<snip>the extremly rare 500 mm APO.<snip>

Cool - always wanted that one!

<snip>Then I somehow got a Vega-12 90 mm and I think it is a way better lens compared with the Arsat<snip>

I have 2 copies of the Vega12, and neither are very good. I have 3 copies of the Arsat/Volna3 which are all better, but the older Volna I have is not as good as the 2 newer Arsats. Typical variability in the old FSU lenses.

<snip>I had the opportunity to buy the Zodiak .... Only problem, the previous owner modified it for his Hasselblad by turning the mount on a lathe. Need to construct it back or buy a Hassi.

You should be able to sell the Hasselblad converted Zodiak for a better price and get a b/C mount as a replacement, I know several people (me included) that were looking for a converted lens, it's a lot cheaper than the Hasselblad F-Distagon.

 

[SMD]

Cool - always wanted that one!

A word of warning: The coating of the front lens (and perhaps of the internal ones too) is a powder. Mine had a little spot and I wanted to clean it. The moment I touched it with destilled water it cleaned away. Not the spot but the coating.

I have 2 copies of the Vega12, and neither are very good. I have 3 copies of the Arsat/Volna3 which are all better, but the older Volna I have is not as good as the 2 newer Arsats. Typical variability in the old FSU lenses.

Could be that technically the Vega12 is not as good as the Volna3. But I like its oof rendering a lot better. I have various Volna3 and Vega12 both in K88 and K60 mounts.
The Vega 12 has an ingenious mechanism to close the apperture. A rod with a longitudinal slit rotates, the inner actuator of the apperture blades being captive in this slit. Problem is, when it escapes that slit I have no idea how to put it back. Therefore one of my copies is condemned to be used open apperture only.

You should be able to sell the Hasselblad converted Zodiak for a better price and get a b/C mount as a replacement, I know several people (me included) that were looking for a converted lens, it's a lot cheaper than the Hasselblad F-Distagon.

As far as I understand it, I just have to make a ring on a lathe so it bring back the flange to the original state.

 

[itsdoable]

You should be able to sell the Hasselblad converted Zodiak for a better price and get a b/C mount as a replacement, I know several people (me included) that were looking for a converted lens, it's a lot cheaper than the Hasselblad F-Distagon.

Click to expand...

As far as I understand it, I just have to make a ring on a lathe so it bring back the flange to the original state.

Ah, I think I miss-understand. Your Zodiak has been modified for the Hasselblad 1600/1000 series? With the similar screw mount? I have on that was modified for Hasselblad V (500,200 series)

The threads on the Kiev lens start closer to the flange than the Hasselblad 1600/1000 lens thread, so if you screw in a Kiev Lens to a Hasselblad, only a 1/4" of the thread engages. Since the flange distance is the same, if you ware careful, you can take pictures like this (but the lens has not latched, so it can fall off easily). Machining the flange so it can threads in till it latches causes it to focus beyond infinity - but you can re-adjust that. I found it better to just switch the mounts from a Kiev 88 to a Hasselblad F1000. A few other things need to be done, like shortening the latch pin, and adjusting/removing the aperture pin so it does not jamb into a cavity in the Hasselblad body, etc...

 

[Kino]

Is the mount on the K60 not shimmed?

Will it work on a Pentacon Six too? What is the reason for the thinner mounting ring?

How good does all this fit together? I am a bit reluctant to the one ring for all lenses; as we all know the tolerances on soviet gear are not exactly tight in praxis. I am ok to fit the ring so that it works and it remains on that lens, but not to fummble around with changing it from one lens to another. Often the lenses themselves have to be arranged, sometimes the iris actuator pin is some mm not where it is on another lens, sometimes it is shorter, etc.

Sorry for the many questions.

The mount itself is not replaced; only the mounting ring. Unscrew a small grub screw, unscrew the ring, replace it with a slightly thinner mounting ring and tighten the grub screw. Place the thin ring with a stud for the aperture actuator on the lens you wish to use and mount it.

Will it work on a Pentacon Six? I haven't the least idea...

For the most part, everything fits together fine and functions acceptably. I don't recall any particular problems with the screw mount lenses I have used on the 6C and I do tend to remember problems, but I did not do a comprehensive study of all of my lenses and functions. The 30mm Arsat, 45mm Mir, 65mm Mir, 80mm Arsat C and Kaleinar 3B 150mm all work properly as I recall, but don't remember about any beyond those focal lengths.

One thing I have noticed in general, on the longer focal length lenses, regardless of adapter or not, is that you should return the aperture ring to wide open before removing the lens or risk bending the internal aperture mechanism on the lens itself.

Hope that helps...

 

[reddesert]

I think if you have questions about the Kiev 88 to 60 mount adapter and the mounting ring, you could ask Arax. I haven't ever emailed with them but my understanding is they are good about answering questions.

I think the point of the replacement breechlock ring for the Kiev 60 for adapted lenses, is that it's thinner to avoid binding on the lens body. And that it's not necessary for the Pentacon Six. But Arax could answer this without guessing.

 

[Cheveuxroux]

Apologies if I am interrupting the thread.

A very interesting thread for a Kiev 88 / Kiev 60 newbie.

I would like to ship Kiev 88 / Kiev 88CM bodies off to Arax for refurbishment and adjustment but am uncertain about transport due to the current war.

Very happy to find a source of repair info here.

It gives me a hint at what is involved in disassembly and repair along with the Arax You Tube Video.

 

[Kino]

I sent 2 bodies and 4 magazines to Arax over 2 years ago when the situation was much more dire and had zero problems. The Ukrainian Postal Service is top notch; just worry about USPS getting to them...

 

[Cheveuxroux]

The Ukrainian Postal Service is top notch; just worry about USPS getting to them...

I very much worry about USPS getting to them!

A MINOX camera I purchased last year disappeared from the USPS tracking system for two weeks and the best answer a local USPS manager would give me was-
essentially-
"tough beans".

Fortunately, the camera re-appeared and was delivered.

The Minox was much less expensive than two refurbished Kiev bodies and I would prefer to rely upon Fed-X or UPS,
but I will need to contact ARAX via their web page form for particulars.

 

[neilt3]

I very much worry about USPS getting to them!

A MINOX camera I purchased last year disappeared from the USPS tracking system for two weeks and the best answer a local USPS manager would give me was-
essentially-
"tough beans".

Fortunately, the camera re-appeared and was delivered.

The Minox was much less expensive than two refurbished Kiev bodies and I would prefer to rely upon Fed-X or UPS,
but I will need to contact ARAX via their web page form for particulars.

Maybe shipping both the Kiev 88 and Kiev 88CM bodies together will make them harder for USPS to lose, being bigger and heavier than the Minox ?

 

[xya]

I agree, Ukrainian Postal service is top. At the height of the war they moved my parcel several time around Ukraine, but it left in the end withou being lost a single day. Just take an insurance up to the real value. If it gets lost, you will be refunded.

 

[Cheveuxroux]

Maybe shipping both the Kiev 88 and Kiev 88CM bodies together will make them harder for USPS to lose, being bigger and heavier than the Minox ?

Doubtful.

 

[Cheveuxroux]

I agree, Ukrainian Postal service is top. At the height of the war they moved my parcel several time around Ukraine, but it left in the end withou being lost a single day. Just take an insurance up to the real value. If it gets lost, you will be refunded.

I believe you.
Nevertheless, I would be happier if it were possible for ARAX to ship to me using Fed-X or UPS and avoid USPS.

 

[Kino]

I believe you.
Nevertheless, I would be happier if it were possible for ARAX to ship to me using Fed-X or UPS and avoid USPS.

Email ARAX and discuss the shipping possibilities. They might be able to arrange FedEx or UPS end delivery. It's the only way you are going to find out...

 

[Cheveuxroux]

Email ARAX and discuss the shipping possibilities. They might be able to arrange FedEx or UPS end delivery. It's the only way you are going to find out...

I intend to ask when I fill out their online form.

 

[Dr. no]

Apologies if I am interrupting the thread.

A very interesting thread for a Kiev 88 / Kiev 60 newbie.

I would like to ship Kiev 88 / Kiev 88CM bodies off to Arax for refurbishment and adjustment but am uncertain about transport due to the current war.

Very happy to find a source of repair info here.

It gives me a hint at what is involved in disassembly and repair along with the Arax You Tube Video.

I sent two bodies on 2 July, got them back mid-September. The only (trackable) delay was apparently when Ukrainian PO attempted delivery without leaving a slip or something and they had to go find it at their post office. (Part of the irony was that I was in Romania part of the time, could have saved a lot by mailing from there).

DSL was better than FedEx, for Europe especially. No more...