9x12 Plate holders 1

Renato Tonelli · May 10, 2021

This thread is causing me to miss my Voigtlander 9x12! I left it in Italy where it was getting the most usage.

I am going to start looking for Bergheil 9x12 (13.5cm lens + holders), in nice condition - if anyone has some leads to share, I would be grateful.
The holders are more of a problem than the camera, as attested by this thread.

Ron (Netherlands) · May 11, 2021

Lots of them for sale on the great bay - however If I'm correct these camera's are al working only with slide in holders - which can be a pain if they are not straight anymore or in winter....
why not compare the Bergheil with the more advanced ICA/Zeiss camera's which had the pop-on pop-off holders, at least the more luxurious models like the Ideal and Universal Jewel.

Renato Tonelli · May 11, 2021

Ron (Netherlands) said:
Lots of them for sale on the great bay - however If I'm correct these camera's are al working only with slide in holders - which can be a pain if they are not straight anymore or in winter....
why not compare the Bergheil with the more advanced ICA/Zeiss camera's which had the pop-on pop-off holders, at least the more luxurious models like the Ideal and Universal Jewel.

Excellent suggestion. Thank you Ron.

Donald Qualls · May 11, 2021

Ron (Netherlands) said:
the more advanced ICA/Zeiss camera's which had the pop-on pop-off holders, at least the more luxurious models like the Ideal and Universal Jewel.

I have two working Ideals -- one Zeiss (13.5 cm f/4.5 Tessar) and the other Ica (15 cm f/4.5 Tessar). Both have the bayonet plate on the shutter and the mount hardware on the front standard, but the shutters, hence bayonets, are different sizes, so don't interchange -- but they use the same plate holders. The Zeiss one is a little more up-market model than the Ica I have; rise, shift, backward front tilt to compensate the drop bed. Nice cameras for 1920s vintage. You won't mistake one for a field camera, but they were originally made as press cameras (same niche the Speed Graphic and Pressman eventually filled).

Ron (Netherlands) · May 11, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
I have two working Ideals -- one Zeiss (13.5 cm f/4.5 Tessar) and the other Ica (15 cm f/4.5 Tessar). Both have the bayonet plate on the shutter and the mount hardware on the front standard, but the shutters, hence bayonets, are different sizes, so don't interchange -- but they use the same plate holders. The Zeiss one is a little more up-market model than the Ica I have; rise, shift, backward front tilt to compensate the drop bed. Nice cameras for 1920s vintage. You won't mistake one for a field camera, but they were originally made as press cameras (same niche the Speed Graphic and Pressman eventually filled).

Very fine camera's indeed. For a while I had these 3, two Zeiss and one Ica, all with the matching double plateholders (sorry for the big picture) - the one on the right is for 10x15cm holders ....
the holders can be seen in post #117

Renato Tonelli · May 12, 2021

Any shutters I should try to stay away from?
The Compur I know from experience to be reliable and serviceable.

Ian Grant · May 13, 2021

Renato Tonelli said:
Any shutters I should try to stay away from?
The Compur I know from experience to be reliable and serviceable.

Vario's are 3 speed so not so desirable, Ibsor or Ibso are fine, the Ibso is like a Compound pneumatic, the Ibsor is like the early Prontor, self cocking.

I have NIB Gauthier shutters but nor for sale . I collect shutters, a Video son. . . . . .. . . .

Ian

Renato Tonelli · May 13, 2021

Ian Grant said:
Vario's are 3 speed so not so desirable, Ibsor or Ibso are fine, the Ibso is like a Compound pneumatic, the Ibsor is like the early Prontor, self cocking.

I have NIB Gauthier shutters but nor for sale . I collect shutters, a Video son. . . . . .. . . .

Ian

Thanks Ian - I saw some with the, to me unfamiliar, Ibsor shutter.

Ron (Netherlands) · May 15, 2021

...I guess much can be discussed about lens/shutter combo's although it might be better to keep this thread on info about plateholders...
you could open a new thread on lens/shutter combo's for your German plate camera.

Renato Tonelli · May 15, 2021

Ron (Netherlands) said:
...I guess much can be discussed about lens/shutter combo's although it might be better to keep this thread on info about plateholders...
you could open a new thread on lens/shutter combo's for your German plate camera.

You’re right.

Renato Tonelli · May 21, 2021

From a link to a PDF of Rada Film Holders in this thread, it would seem that they made 9x12 (and other) film holders for sheet film. I have seen plenty of Rada Roll Film Holders but never the sheet film holder. Seems odd.

lobitar · May 24, 2021

They certainly made cut film holders. In fact I ordered a few from the factory in Germany in the late seventies. Sadly I ordered the 'NormalFalz'-type with built-in sheet-holder: They are really no good due to bad focus accuracy. I really should have ordered the Zeiss/Ica snap-on type that were still in stock then. The 9x12 type should still be quite common in Europe, as Linhof and Plaubel-holders from the fifties basically were Rada holders.

Renato Tonelli · May 25, 2021

lobitar said:
They certainly made cut film holders. In fact I ordered a few from the factory in Germany in the late seventies. Sadly I ordered the 'NormalFalz'-type with built-in sheet-holder: They are really no good due to bad focus accuracy. I really should have ordered the Zeiss/Ica snap-on type that were still in stock then. The 9x12 type should still be quite common in Europe, as Linhof and Plaubel-holders from the fifties basically were Rada holders.

That's excellent information.

Renato Tonelli · May 29, 2021

Check this out:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/284184149052?hash=item422ab1fc3c:g:uE4AAOSwgulgKTwF

Interesting concept; I have no idea which camera(s) it would fit.

Ron (Netherlands) · May 30, 2021

Renato Tonelli said:
Check this out:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/284184149052?hash=item422ab1fc3c:g:uE4AAOSwgulgKTwF

Interesting concept; I have no idea which camera(s) it would fit.

Renato, that is a filmpack holder; not so much of interest since filmpacks are since long not available anymore - and since it is made of metal, I doubt whether it could be to any use for wetplate photography

Ian Grant · May 30, 2021

The only thing they are useful for is if you need to amke a focuss screen holder if the camera is missing it's own. I have quite a few and ahve thought of using them a s print frames - when I get time . . . . . . .

Flat sided fit a few makes inc Linhof

Ian

Renato Tonelli · Jun 9, 2021

How does one identify the Rada Rollfilm Adapters?
I have two and neither has a Model No. or Name that I can find. The one on the left has the 'lip' which will slide onto the back of my Voigtlander 91x12; the one on the right does not have the 'lip' and seems intended to lock onto some other camera system - but which one?

BTW - I could not upload a larger file-size image.

Ian Grant · Jun 10, 2021

I have a Rada RF back 6.5x9 and the original box and there's no identifying markings to denote what cameras it fits, Pictures of the other side would yield more information,

Ian

Renato Tonelli · Jun 11, 2021

Ian Grant said:
I have a Rada RF back 6.5x9 and the original box and there's no identifying markings to denote what cameras it fits, Pictures of the other side would yield more information,

Ian

With front and with the covers open.

fabulousrice · Dec 15, 2021

Does someone know where I can find roll film holders for the smaller Voigtlander (Avus?)

Ian Grant · Dec 19, 2021

fabulousrice said:
Does someone know where I can find roll film holders for the smaller Voigtlander (Avus?)

What do you mean by smaller ? the 6.5x9 Avus.

Ian

stiganas · Jan 10, 2022

New to plate cameras and holders. I read a lot about the special clip-on holders for Zeiss/Ica Ideal cameras and search to see one in action on youtube but found nothing. I don't know/understand how they work. Can you show me a schematic/picture or even better a youtube clip ? Thank you, Stefan

Donald Qualls · Jan 10, 2022

I have two Ideal cameras and a dozen plate holders.

Most plate cameras use a holder that has a thin edge and slides under a lip (folded over sheet metal) on the long edges of the camera back. The Ideal (and, IIRC, the Juwell as well, both originally Ica designs) have holders that have a lip on one edge (short edge for the Ideal, long edge for the Juwell), and notches at the opposite corners. To mount the holder, you put the lip into a slot in the camera back, then tip it up to bring the free end into contact, at which point spring loaded latches on the camera back clip into the notches -- just as the back comes tight against the reference surface. This is, in my experience (compared to a KW Patent Etui which uses slide-in holders) is much easier to get right, and more secure around a tight dark slide pulling the holder out of position and causing light leak.

Conversely, the Ideal's holders have both velvets for the dark slide caught within the soldered-shut holder, so the velvets (now above 90 years old) are very hard to replace.

stiganas · Jan 10, 2022

Thank you, now I get it. Looking back to (almost) the only clip on youtube with Zeiss Ideal I understand what you say, funny the guy doing the clip didn't know about this feature and struggled to put the GG holder back (no offense to anybody, probably he is a member here - otherwise good clip.

Ron (Netherlands) · Jul 29, 2022

stiganas said:
Thank you, now I get it. Looking back to (almost) the only clip on youtube with Zeiss Ideal I understand what you say, funny the guy doing the clip didn't know about this feature and struggled to put the GG holder back (no offense to anybody, probably he is a member here - otherwise good clip.

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9x12 Plate holders 1

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