9x12 Plate holders 1

mferrarini · Mar 23, 2009

Sorry i can't post any pictures but I don't have a digital camera yet. I have a Certotrop 9x12cm. The Certo holders are very similar in appearance to Ian's Orion/Rodenstock holders way back in the beginning of this discussion. The measurements are 100mm wide by 150mm long with a 5mm locating lip. I also have Kodak and Zeiss Ikon 665/7 holders that fit, each having the same dimensions as the Certo holders, although there is a slight variation on the way the long edges are formed. Instead of a plain flat edge, the Kodak and Zeiss holders have a groove running along each side up to 5mm or so from the top, where the locating lip would be on the Certo holders. Different appearance, same functionality.
My Patent Etui 9X12cm takes 100mm by 140mm holders with a tiny 1mm locating lip at the top. Although the overall width is the same as the Certo, Kodak, and Zeiss holders, the latter holders will not slide freely into the Patent Etui because the width of each tracking edge is fractionally larger. I am using 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 inch film sheaths because I cannot find 9x12cm sheaths here in the US. I also have been unable to find 9x12cm "IDEAL" holders for an ICA 225 and Zeiss Ikon Ideal that I also have. I keep checking the auction site and specialty dealers here but haven't had any luck. Does any one know of other sources in in this great big world that may be able to help?

Ian Grant · Mar 24, 2009

All the 9x12 holder I have that will fit my Orion Werks & Rodenstock, (and scrap Ernemann) cameras will fit both my Patent Etui's.

In a couple of weeks when I'm back in the UK the idea has been to start a swap thread for 9x12 holders to pass on the spares we have that don't fit our own cameras and hopefully get ones that do in return. I'm fairly sure I have one for Søren

Also I'm looking at getting a few 9x12 film sheaths fabricated, they aren't difficult to make, there was some discussion in another thread. It's taken me three years of searching to find some sheaths, I only need 6 maybe a dozen more.

Ian

mferrarini · May 6, 2009

Ian, if you do succeed in fabricating the 9X12 sheaths, what are the chances of making a few 10x15cm? I have six double sided plate holders for my Toska 550 but have only been able to find three film sheaths (courtesy of Ole) in three years of sporadic looking. Unfortunately I am not very handy at any kind of fabrication. In addition, I am now the proud owner of an Ica Ideal 525 (10x15cm) but do not have any holders for it. I wonder how many years it will take to find those.

Ian Grant · May 6, 2009

You've just reminded me I left an adapter with a sheet metal compan 2 weeks ago, they felt they should be easy to make. I'll check it out tomorrow or Friday.

Ian

Ian Grant · May 26, 2009

mferrarini said:
Ian, if you do succeed in fabricating the 9X12 sheaths, what are the chances of making a few 10x15cm?

The company I've used for sheet metal work for the past 20 or so years couldn't make the adapters because they just don't work with metal that thin. I had to go elsewhere hence the delays, plus in the UK there were many holidays for Easter, Mayday etc, and much of the time I was away from base.

You need 0.3/0.4mm sheet to fabricate adapters, and a former of hardened steel approx 0.25mm to simulate the film and bend the edges around. The problem I ran into was the fabricators didn't have the sheet in stock & so it wasn't economic as they had to buy a whole sheet and I needed less than 2% of a sheet to make quite a number of adapters. If I'd visited a few other fabricators I might have struck lucky unfortunately my time was limited. I did get some new blades made for a 20"x24" Beard Masking frame and that cost me £2 ($3.20) so it can be done.

My dalliance with 9x12 blows hot/cold because of weight restrictions when flying, I still need to bring a developing tank and plate holders etc, and my baggage is always over weight, but once they are here I can start using them in earnest.

Ian

Subversive Mk II · Jun 13, 2009

I've just acquired a Welta 9x12 and need to know what film holders would go with it. From what I can make out, it seems the narrow edged lip is the deciding factor and might be the one known as the "normalfalz", is this right?
I attach a couple of pics of the GGS holder and would like to draw attention to the step at the bottom of it - this step rides up onto a lip at the bottom of the camera back - does this make it an odd one out, or is this normal?
Many thanks for all pointers.

Subversive Mk II · Aug 21, 2009

Welta holders

I recently bought another Welta which came with two Rhaco holders that fit the first one, although there's a difference in length, they being a bit short for the first camera.
Dimensions are 100mm wide x 138mm long with a 1mm lip on the long edges. Thumbnails one and two are of a Rhaco short plate.

Thumbnails three, four and five are of an AP Paris film holder that fits the Welta long body, but a slightly tight fit that will probably get a bit better with use and some candle wax on the edges. They have the internal dimensions for a 9x12 plate and not, as I first suspected, an old Imperial size. Overall size is 100mm wide and 150mm long with an edge lip of 1mm.

I also have a Rada rollfilm back that fits the second (short) camera, but because the Rada's got a groove instead of a lip the matching groove on the long body Welta is slightly too thick to accept it. This is a bit of a pita, as the Rada back would centre properly on the long body, whereas it's always a bit too far up on the short one.

renes · Sep 10, 2009

Hi,

I have 6 film holders 9x12 (Zeiss Ikon, Voigdlander) with sheaths and it seems they are all made by someone and they look grate. I have not yet use them with my new Voigdlander Bergheil but all exterior sheaths size are 89x120mm. So 1mm less than nominal 9x12 film size (interior about 1,5mm less).

Does it matter for keeping film flat or for film loading?
Does nominal film size are exactly 90x120mm?

Ian Grant · Sep 10, 2009

You need the film sheaths because the glass plates were held differently, you can use card but it's awkward, So it matters for both reasons.

Nominal size is 9x12 actual size maybe slightly less, there will be an ISO standard, now.

Ian

mferrarini · Jan 7, 2010

Unknown 9x12cm plate holders

I acquired these 9x12cm plate holders in order to obtain the film sheaths that were inside them. Although not quite up to the standards of Zeiss or ICA, these double sided holders are nevertheless precision built and have similar design features. They won't fit into any of my cameras. The larger model measures 111 x 167 x 15mm. The smaller is 111 x 158 x 12mm. Both have a 2mm wide lip along each long side. Both have small notches in the valley between the sides, to receive a locking pin on the camera body. Each dark slide is locked in place by a spring type mechanism that is squeezed to release it. The dark slides on the smaller model have metal "tongues" that fit into notches in the holder body. On the larger model two screws with round heads protrude from the body. The holders have metal handles with rectangular cut outs that "catch" the screw heads. Squeezing the handle releases it. Can anyone help to identify these holders?

Perry Way · Apr 27, 2010

Having just acquired a very good condition Voigtlander Avus in 9x12 configuration and seeing some very lovely photos taken with another Avus on the internet (while researching this camera), now I want some film holders. Since I don't do plates, it is important to me to get holders that have those special sheaths Ian talks about.

So, anyone know if the Leitz Wetzlar anlegefalz 9x12 holders will work for a Voigtlander Avus? I've gone through all the other listings for sale and ruled everything else out. If anyone knows the answer to this question... then maybe I can get my hands on ONE film holder. Here's a photo of the one in question (this came from the seller).

JPD · Apr 28, 2010

Perry Way said:
So, anyone know if the Leitz Wetzlar anlegefalz 9x12 holders will work for a Voigtlander Avus?

It doesn't look so. I understand that you're eager to start using the camera, but relax and check eBay every day and you will soon find original Voigtländer plate holders. I bought around twenty 6,5x9 plate holders for my Voigtländer Bergheil within a few months after getting the camera, and nine 9x12 after I bought my 9x12 Avus (and later also bought another Avus plus a Bergheil 9x12).

They are fine cameras and fun to use.

Anton Lukoszevieze · May 28, 2010

9x12 holders with film sheaths do come up, I was frustrated for a while, but then found 12 very good Kodak ones. I love my 9x12 camera, 4 different lenses + Rada roll film back
and masks for 6x4.5, 6x6 and 6x9, it's a really wonderful system. Sometimes I miss the squarer 4x5 format, but 9x12 is very elegant. I like the ground glass and find that I take more time
for fotos and am happier with the results.

Perry Way · May 28, 2010

Anton Lukoszevieze said:
9x12 holders with film sheaths do come up, I was frustrated for a while, but then found 12 very good Kodak ones. I love my 9x12 camera, 4 different lenses + Rada roll film back
and masks for 6x4.5, 6x6 and 6x9, it's a really wonderful system. Sometimes I miss the squarer 4x5 format, but 9x12 is very elegant. I like the ground glass and find that I take more time
for fotos and am happier with the results.

I got three from one of those buy-it-now sellers on eBay for $20! Just shot them yesterday first time with some hand cut HP5. Developed last night, got a little light leak going on, but I gotta say those Kodak holders are pretty well engineered but cumbersome in the darkroom. I need to bend one of mine back to normal. Then I'm going to sand down the gritty roughness of the dark slides and clean out the rust on the springs and anywhere I can find it, and then I'm going to repaint the items that were painted black, and dry lube the channel the dark slide goes down so the dark slide will be super slippery once it is pulled past the end clasp.

Anton Lukoszevieze · May 29, 2010

The Kodak holders I use have a frame that leans out to fit the film sheet under and then this pushes down to hold the film in place. You don't have to slide the sheet in
like European holders, it is a little tricky but with practice quite straight forward. I also like that the contact prints I make have a clean border, no film notch 9x12cm may seem small for contacts
but they are jewel-like in their intensity. Have fun with your camera.

Perry Way · May 29, 2010

Anton Lukoszevieze said:
The Kodak holders I use have a frame that leans out to fit the film sheet under and then this pushes down to hold the film in place. You don't have to slide the sheet in
like European holders, it is a little tricky but with practice quite straight forward. I also like that the contact prints I make have a clean border, no film notch 9x12cm may seem small for contacts
but they are jewel-like in their intensity. Have fun with your camera.

Yes I have a few right here, but I can't share them because my scanner is <cough> needing an ink refill. Imagine! I found I had to go about 40-50 magenta on the color head of the Omega D5XL for the perfect, rich and saturated yet crisp look. I'll share when I get these scanned. Have fun with your camera too! I am already loving my Voigtlander

rhmimac · Jun 20, 2010

film holders

I got hold of 3 plate holders for the 9x12 cm plate camera which I still don't have identified properly. Short: compur shutter ZDM/IBT with "DF" marked on the front of the shutter time wheel / rodenstock f3.5-13,5cm lens #321392. I will put up some pics to question that issue in another thread.
Holders are 101x150mm x 4mm thick, edges 2mm 3 way around.

Novice 9x12 question: do I need to replace the green glass and put in a 9x12cm filmsheet to use the holder or do I put the filmsheet on top of the glass?

tnx for your answer!

rhmimac

Ian Grant · Jun 20, 2010

The green glass is a plate, ruined by now

You need film inserts to convert the plate holders although a piece of black card will work.

There were many manufacturers of 9x12 cameras often very similar and quite a few used Rodenstock lenses, & |Rodenstock made cameras as well - I have one, my other an Orion Werks also has a Rodenstock lens, both take similar plate holders to yours.

The I is instant whatever shutter speed is set, the B is bulb, shutters open while the shutter release is depreseed (or cable realease) T is time, forts press opens the shutter, the second closes - usually used for focussing, or like B long exposures. (ZDM is the same but German symbols). DF is because the shutters made by Friedrich Deckel who also part owned Linhof.

Ian

rhmimac · Jun 20, 2010

Many thanks Ian.

I'm really up to ordering some Ilford HP5+ 9x12 sheets in order to get some LF negs out of it which I will use for contact prints.

The green glass is a plate, ruined by now

You need film inserts to convert the plate holders although a piece of black card will work.

Just replace the glass with a card and put the film on it? The card must have some thickness to have the springs underneath pushed down I presume. Anything other special to have light leaks countered?

The I is instant whatever shutter speed is set, the B is bulb, shutters open while the shutter release is depreseed (or cable realease) T is time, forts press opens the shutter, the second closes - usually used for focussing, or like B long exposures. (ZDM is the same but German symbols). DF is because the shutters made by Friedrich Deckel who also part owned Linhof.

I assumed the above by playing with the shutter a bit.

rhmimac

Ian Grant · Jun 20, 2010

What ever you do always rotate the shutter speed dial in the direction the arrow points when changing shutter speed, the wrong way and the shutter can be badly damaged and won't function.

Ian

Subversive Mk II · Jun 20, 2010

rhmimac said:
I'm really up to ordering some Ilford HP5+ 9x12 sheets in order to get some LF negs out of it which I will use for contact prints.

Or use Fomapan, much cheaper and available in 9x12. www.fomafoto.com

Just replace the glass with a card and put the film on it? The card must have some thickness to have the springs underneath pushed down I presume. Anything other special to have light leaks countered?

Or you could use a smear of jam to stick the film to the card or thin glass. I've not tried it, but another poster here has and it works.

puderse · Sep 13, 2010

Need Holder help!

I have these three plate cameras that I traded with a Dutch Sergeant at Sheppard AFB back in the 80's. They seem to be w/o name except on the lenses. One of the larger ones has the name "HELFIX" on the bed but I can't get that to correspond to a brand name. One of the larger has an unmarked plate holder. The plate holder and the ground glass seem to interchange between the larger cameras. W/o a brand name I don't know what to look for in more plate holders. Should I be looking for plate holders based on measurements and style?

I think I might find a roll film holder for the smaller.

Subversive Mk II · Sep 13, 2010

The Ihagee looks as if it's the same holder as my Ihagee (which was a fairly common holder, shared by several makes). Most of them don't have any particular identifying names or marks, you'll just have to go by auction photographs of them or ask the vendor the size. The thin lipped ones (as you have) vary in length and how snugly they fit down in the slot. It's really just trial and error until you find enough to get you going. Best of luck finding film inserts for them - most of them seem to have got chucked out or lost.

puderse · Sep 14, 2010

Roll film back?

Would it perhaps be easier to find a 120 back to fit this camera? (The middle one)

Subversive Mk II · Sep 14, 2010

Oh, they're still around, I've seen a few on ebugger, but you still have to take a chance on what will fit.

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