18% Grey Card. To use it or not.

[Sirius Glass]

Since you have one you might as will try it. Maybe you can learn something useful. I have not had the need for one, but I have used the palm of may hand for exposures when I took skiing photographs.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Incident metering falls apart if the subject is very dark or very light, such as a snow scene. The subject needs to be an average of ~18% reflectance with normal contrast for incident metering to work- but then most subjects fit this criteria.

The meter does not need to be up against the subject, the meter just needs to be illuminated by the same light. In a studio, where the light sources are close to the subject, that does mean the meter is close to the subject.

+
It doesn't matter how far or close the studio light is to the subject. They could be either. The point is, you have to take the incident reading next to the subject to read the actual light falling on the subject. Any other place could be higher or lower in brightness. I'm sure that's what you meant.

 

[runswithsizzers]

"Tempted to assume" can get you electrocuted by lightning when your side or the canyon is under inky black clouds, and the other side is still in brilliant sunlight.

So true! Imagine my disappointment if I find myself on the edge of a canyon in a thunderstorm looking across at the opposite rim where Saquatch, Elvis, and Amelia Earhart are conversing with space aliens under a beautiful sunny blue sky -- and me with no spot meter! ;-)

 

[Paul Howell]

But not a feature on any film cameras....

What about the Leica R with digital back. Of course the user would need to switch the digital back film back, on the other hand not sure if the digital back had a histogram.

 

[MattKing]

+
It doesn't matter how far or close the studio light is to the subject. They could be either. The point is, you have to take the incident reading next to the subject to read the actual light falling on the subject. Any other place could be higher or lower in brightness. I'm sure that's what you meant.

Not always necessary.
It isn't uncommon to have one side of a river be in exactly the same light as the other.
You have to observe carefully in order to check for differences, but you can often do that check reliably just by looking at the scene.

 

[Vaughn]

"Tempted to assume" can get you electrocuted by lightning when your side or the canyon is under inky black clouds, and the other side is still in brilliant sunlight.

...

I learned to meter under the redwoods. As one is wandering along the creek or trail, the amount of available light can change significantly in ten paces when it has to filter through a couple hundred feet of foliage (much more or much less). Deepest shadow values can also vary by a couple stops.

How I sometime envy those of the grand landscape! When I have escaped the temperate rainforest and headed to the winter warmth of Death Valley, not only did the legs of my Ries start to slide easily and the insides of my 8x10 turn into a Turkish Bath the first time set up in the sun, but all my meter readings seemed to be the same! I still metered out of habit.

My Pentax Digital Spot hit the creek in Yosemite...it was the meter or the 8x10...I chose wisely. Got it before too long and not too far. It was to be my last photo on my way out of the Valley after a long busy week. A sign, obviously, that I needed to get on the road for the 10-hr drive home. Dried it out and it's been fine these past 8 or 10 years. I have a non-digital Pentax Spot as back-up. It is a great tool for the way I work.

I have used a gray card and spot meter to make 35mm slides of student work (back in the day). Very helpful to balance the light on the large oil paintings and such.

 

[Vaughn]

What about the Leica R with digital back. Of course the user would need to switch the digital back film back, on the other hand not sure if the digital back had a histogram.

Always exceptions, but then, one can use a digital camera for its meter/histogram to determine the exposure for film. There will be some issues, but through experience, one could probably translate how the digital camera handles light into the data one needs for the film exposure. But that seems like scratching ones left ear by reaching over ones head with the right hand.

 

[Taylor K Nankervis]

Using a grey card with a matrix or evaluative, multi-pattern meter is not really sensible. These meters have their own reference points – in fact for a person unsure of how to use a grey card, the chances are the on-board meter will have a very good idea of the exposure! Would I use a grey card with my vintage EOS 1N evaluative meter? No. Absolutely not at all.

But with hand-held incident or spot meters, it is very useful as a set reference point around which other values are balanced.
I lock-in a grey car value before 'sweeping' a tonally varied scene with a multispot meter, then balance all values to the grey card, shifting values up or down if necessary. This is but just one of many ways to employ a grey card.

I would be careful using just any old card, including low quality Chinese knock-offs. Calibrite, Kodak, Ilford and Hama, among others, make hue-correct grey cards. Kodak has A4 cards easily cut down to multiple card-sized pieces that fit to ID tag holders.
When not in use they should be stored away from moisture, heat and sun. My own cards are credit card-sized that are well suited to the similarly sized viewfinder shapenof a Sekonic L758DR multispot meter.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

A found in a box a 18% grey card and it made me think this:

Nowdays with digital cameras we can do almost everything but with film...things change.

A have a Nikon F100 and I shoot photos using the matrix mode. Until now, it works well for me but, can we improve the technical quality of the photos?

I tried spot metering using the 18% grey card and more than 50% of the takes are 1 stop under or overexposed if I use the matrix mode.

From your knowlegde and experience, does it matter? I mean the fidelity of color, grain, etc... Exposure affects the density of the color layers, so, it must be important, right?

from my experience, the Nikon matrix metering is extremely accurate. I doubt that the use of a gray card, in your case, will improve the technical quality of your images. I'd trust Nikon matrix metering in almost all cases.

 

[wiltw]

A found in a box a 18% grey card and it made me think this:

Nowdays with digital cameras we can do almost everything but with film...things change.

A have a Nikon F100 and I shoot photos using the matrix mode. Until now, it works well for me but, can we improve the technical quality of the photos?

I tried spot metering using the 18% grey card and more than 50% of the takes are 1 stop under or overexposed if I use the matrix mode.

From your knowlegde and experience, does it matter? I mean the fidelity of color, grain, etc... Exposure affects the density of the color layers, so, it must be important, right?

Every scene is different, and you might change your mind about 'what is most important in the scene?'.

Photo 1 was metered with a spotmeter on the 18% gray card, because 'correct exposure' of the gray card was the most important thing to get...the gray card is reproduced as a midtone.

Photo 2 was metered with evaluative metering becajse the blue sky and the clouds was an important element, and 'correct exposure' of the gray card was not essential.

 

[BMbikerider]

That's unfortunate because the Histogram feature is really useful.

Quite but we are talking about an F100 FILM camera where you have to know what you are doing which a lot of those who cut their photographic teeth with digital do not often understand. One has to think what they are doing and not let the camera do it for you.

 

[BMbikerider]

What about the Leica R with digital back. Of course the user would need to switch the digital back film back, on the other hand not sure if the digital back had a histogram.

Well in that case it is a digital camera and a film camera. Which version of the 'R' series are you talking about here.

 

[BMbikerider]

There was a saying from the distant past 'Expose for the shadows but let the highlights take care of themselves' This is fine for negative film because highlights can always (well nearly always) be burnt in when printing, but as the digital image does not have a negative stage you reverse the saying to be 'Expose for the highlights and let the shadows take care of themselves'

Principally with digital you can usually recover a lot of detail from shadows which are underexposed using software, a little more difficult (but do-able) with film if there is detail

 

[gary mulder]

from my experience, the Nikon matrix metering is extremely accurate. I doubt that the use of a gray card, in your case, will improve the technical quality of your images. I'd trust Nikon matrix metering in almost all cases.

This shot was taken with Nikon matrix metering in Program mode. Scan from FB print. Camera Nikon F6 , Film T-max 100, developed in FX-37.

 

[bjorke]

A found in a box a 18% grey card and it made me think this:

Nowdays with digital cameras we can do almost everything but with film...things change.

A have a Nikon F100 and I shoot photos using the matrix mode. Until now, it works well for me but, can we improve the technical quality of the photos?

I tried spot metering using the 18% grey card and more than 50% of the takes are 1 stop under or overexposed if I use the matrix mode.

From your knowlegde and experience, does it matter? I mean the fidelity of color, grain, etc... Exposure affects the density of the color layers, so, it must be important, right?

unless you're filling the frame with the gray card, matrix metering will pretty much be guaranteed to be wrong. Maybe then, too.

Are you metering and then using the result manually, or shooting in auto-exposure mode? If the latter, don't worry about the gray card. If the former, you can use it as a bit of info but really it's just one bit. It's not a bible. What you get will depend on what you want from the. picture, in terms of tones, and manual exposure is a good way to get that. If you're shooting auto, the gray card is just a fiddly nuisance.

 

[arturo_rs]

unless you're filling the frame with the gray card, matrix metering will pretty much be guaranteed to be wrong. Maybe then, too.

Are you metering and then using the result manually, or shooting in auto-exposure mode? If the latter, don't worry about the gray card. If the former, you can use it as a bit of info but really it's just one bit. It's not a bible. What you get will depend on what you want from the. picture, in terms of tones, and manual exposure is a good way to get that. If you're shooting auto, the gray card is just a fiddly nuisance.

Nikon F100 with spot metering selected. A gray card right next to a flower. The center is where the camera meters spot also where the grey card is. For the example, the photo uploaded.

 

[Chan Tran]

If you fill the frame with the gray card when using matrix it would most of the time gives the same exposure as spot except under very bright condition (above EV15@ISO100) then the Matrix would give more exposure as it deems there is nothing that bright.

 

[koraks]

Nikon F100 with spot metering selected. A gray card right next to a flower. The center is where the camera meters spot also where the grey card is. For the example, the photo uploaded.

Not shown:
* light source(s), nature and directionality
* angle between greycard and line of camera/sight
* information on surface of greycard; i.e. how shiny/matte is it?
If you put a grey card somewhere in a scene and angle the camera in different ways at it, it's perfectly easy to end up with meter readings that are all over the place, depending on how the scene is illuminated.

 

[arturo_rs]

Light source: The sun (sunny day), left corner up. The sun iluminates the flower from the left.
Angle between graycard and camera sight. Both parallel. The light incides a little from the left.
Surface, matte.

@koraks about: "If you put a grey card somewhere in a scene and angle the camera in different ways at it, it's perfectly easy to end up with meter readings that are all over the place, depending on how the scene is illuminated" It is a heache, not practical. I will have to use the matrix mode of the camera and do bracketing.

This post is not for a particular scene. I wanted to know the experience from people, what was the use and if really matter today with "new"color negative films.

 

[Chan Tran]

Nikon F100 with spot metering selected. A gray card right next to a flower. The center is where the camera meters spot also where the grey card is. For the example, the photo uploaded.

That is fine except that as someone said if you angle the card you get different readings. The gray card when use straight on to the camera then it's good for flat object. For 3 dimensional object you need to angle it toward the light source to simulate the effect of the dome on an incident meter.

 

[koraks]

I wanted to know the experience from people, what was the use and if really matter today with "new"color negative films.

OK, in that case - I just use whatever metering system the camera has, use it sensibly and generally don't have any problems with exposure. If I use a camera without inbuilt meter, I use a handheld meter, either incident or spot. I never carry a grey card and I've never felt the need to do so. I don't think doing so would somehow improve the photos I make.

 

[Ian C]

Used correctly, a gray card is useful with a reflected-light meter.

https://www.kodak.com/content/products-brochures/KODAK-Gray-Card-R27-brochure.pdf

 

[arturo_rs]

Used correctly, a gray card is useful with a reflected-light meter.

https://www.kodak.com/content/products-brochures/KODAK-Gray-Card-R27-brochure.pdf

Thank you

 

[Chan Tran]

OK, in that case - I just use whatever metering system the camera has, use it sensibly and generally don't have any problems with exposure. If I use a camera without inbuilt meter, I use a handheld meter, either incident or spot. I never carry a grey card and I've never felt the need to do so. I don't think doing so would somehow improve the photos I make.

I would rather carry an incident meter than a gray card. Very difficult to use the gray card in the field.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

+
It doesn't matter how far or close the studio light is to the subject. They could be either. The point is, you have to take the incident reading next to the subject to read the actual light falling on the subject. Any other place could be higher or lower in brightness. I'm sure that's what you meant.

Err, no.

Lets say the subject is in sunlight, but far away. A meter illuminated with the same sunlight, and pointing at the camera, will have the same reading as it will located at the subject - same sunlight, same direction. In a studio, taking an incident reading at the subject location and at the camera location isn't going to work very well.

Sorry to be belaboring an obvious point.