110/16mm Camera Image Quality

[xkaes]

 

[Huss]

A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, my son received a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 110 camera for his birthday. The results were not, how shall I say, cowabunga.

I had the rebadged Barbie version. New old stock in the plastic shrink wrap for $10. I used it in perfect conditions - 2pm Socal w sun behind me and the pics were miserable. Just a blurry mess. In comparison the disposable Kodak Fling gave outstanding results.

 

[ericB&W]

I had the rebadged Barbie version. New old stock in the plastic shrink wrap for $10. I used it in perfect conditions - 2pm Socal w sun behind me and the pics were miserable. Just a blurry mess. In comparison the disposable Kodak Fling gave outstanding results.

Huss, i've seen that you test many mini format cameras,
i wanted to know what is , in your opinion, the sharpest
among Pentax 110, Minolta 16, Rollei .
I'm now trying to resume my Meopta Microma 16mm but
i have to find a way to cut in a stable simple way the strips of 16 mm from a
normal 35 mm film.

 

[xkaes]

In terms of quality, here are the best ten lenses to be found on subminiature cameras -- at least according to William White, who wrote the Book on Subminiature Photography. They are listed in chronological order, NOT by quality. And remember, the size and type of film play at least an equal (or even more important) role in the final product. In other words, we are taking about the quality of the LENS, which is very different from the quality of the RESULT. That may sound strange, but it isn't. A simple example, is that a particle
If YOUR camera's lens isn't included, don't panic -- I'm sure it's number ELEVEN on the list! P.S. Since White did not consider half-frame cameras to be subminis, none of the many, superb half-frame optics were even considered for his list.

---

• 1951 -- 25mm f2.0 Goerz Helgor on the Minicord​

  
  Six element TLR lens stopping down to f11 and focusing down to 12 inches. "This is one of the top three subminiature cameras; it is a precision instrument of high optical and mechanical quality, capable of outstanding results."
  
  

• 1953 -- 25mm f1.9 Esamitar on the GaMi​

  
  Six element, rangefinder-coupled lens stopping down to f11 and focusing down to 13 inches. "The best subminiature camera ever made, and the all-time favorite of subminiature photographers."
  
  

• 1958 -- 15mm f3.5 Complan on the Minox B​

  
  Four element, fixed aperture lens focusing down to 8 inches.
  
  

• 1960 -- 25mm f2.8 Rokkor on the Minolta 16 II​

  
  Four element, fixed-focus lens stopping down to f16. The point of focus is about nine feet from the camera. Focusing to 21 inches with add-on closeup lens, or at infinity with a add-on distance lenses. "This model is one of the premier subminiatures ever designed. Its simplicity and durability have rarely been matched, and it has every feature really required for good quality still photography of any format."
  
  

• 1960 -- 25mm f2.8 Tessinon on the Tessina​

  
  Six element TLR lens stopping down to f22 and focusing down to 10 inches. "The camera is well-made like the proverbial 'fine Swiss watch'."
  
  

• 1963 -- 25mm f2.8 Zeiss Tessar on the Rollei 16​

  
  Multi-element lens stopping down to f22 and focusing down to 15 inches with additional closeup, wide-angle and telphoto adapters. "Let us confess here our unabashed prejudice that this was, and still is, the best German-made 16mm format camera of them all."
  
  

• 1980 -- 25mm f2.8 Minotar on the Minox 110s​

  
  Multi-element lens stopping down to f16 and focusing down to 24. "The best all-around camera in its format in the early 1980s."
  
  

• 1980 -- 25-87mm f3.5 Macro-Zoom Rokkor on the Minolta Mark II​

  
  Multi-element SLR zoom lens focusing down to 3 inches!. "This was without a doubt the finest integrated SLR 110 manufactured. This camera achieves as fine a result as any other Japanese 110 camera."
  
  

• 1983 -- 24mm f2.8 Pentax on the Pentax Auto 110 Super​

  
  Multi-element, interchangeable, focusing SLR lens with various close-up lenses. "It was a breakthrough design and for the general photographer, all the subminiature he or she would need in a lifetime. In fact, even the sophistcated viewer cannot tell whether the enlargement was from a 35mm or a 110."
  
  

• 1987 -- 30mm f5.0 Xenagon on the Robot SC​

  
  Fixed aperture lens stopping focusing down to 31 inches. "The Robot SC was tested under a variety of conditions and with a number of different emulsions and found to be a star performer."

 

[ericB&W]

Ebay is full of Minolta 16 but almost all without cartridge,
at least here in Europe.

 

[Huss]

In terms of quality, here are the best ten lenses to be found on subminiature cameras -- at least according to William White, who wrote the Book on Subminiature Photography. They are listed in chronological order, NOT by quality. And remember, the size and type of film play at least an equal (or even more important) role in the final product. In other words, we are taking about the quality of the LENS, which is very different from the quality of the RESULT. That may sound strange, but it isn't. A simple example, is that a particle
If YOUR camera's lens isn't included, don't panic -- I'm sure it's number ELEVEN on the list! P.S. Since White did not consider half-frame cameras to be subminis, none of the many, superb half-frame optics were even considered for his list.

---

• 1951 -- 25mm f2.0 Goerz Helgor on the Minicord​

  
  Six element TLR lens stopping down to f11 and focusing down to 12 inches. "This is one of the top three subminiature cameras; it is a precision instrument of high optical and mechanical quality, capable of outstanding results."
  
  

• 1953 -- 25mm f1.9 Esamitar on the GaMi​

  
  Six element, rangefinder-coupled lens stopping down to f11 and focusing down to 13 inches. "The best subminiature camera ever made, and the all-time favorite of subminiature photographers."
  
  

• 1958 -- 15mm f3.5 Complan on the Minox B​

  
  Four element, fixed aperture lens focusing down to 8 inches.
  
  

• 1960 -- 25mm f2.8 Rokkor on the Minolta 16 II​

  
  Four element, fixed-focus lens stopping down to f16. The point of focus is about nine feet from the camera. Focusing to 21 inches with add-on closeup lens, or at infinity with a add-on distance lenses. "This model is one of the premier subminiatures ever designed. Its simplicity and durability have rarely been matched, and it has every feature really required for good quality still photography of any format."
  
  

• 1960 -- 25mm f2.8 Tessinon on the Tessina​

  
  Six element TLR lens stopping down to f22 and focusing down to 10 inches. "The camera is well-made like the proverbial 'fine Swiss watch'."
  
  

• 1963 -- 25mm f2.8 Zeiss Tessar on the Rollei 16​

  
  Multi-element lens stopping down to f22 and focusing down to 15 inches with additional closeup, wide-angle and telphoto adapters. "Let us confess here our unabashed prejudice that this was, and still is, the best German-made 16mm format camera of them all."
  
  

• 1980 -- 25mm f2.8 Minotar on the Minox 110s​

  
  Multi-element lens stopping down to f16 and focusing down to 24. "The best all-around camera in its format in the early 1980s."
  
  

• 1980 -- 25-87mm f3.5 Macro-Zoom Rokkor on the Minolta Mark II​

  
  Multi-element SLR zoom lens focusing down to 3 inches!. "This was without a doubt the finest integrated SLR 110 manufactured. This camera achieves as fine a result as any other Japanese 110 camera."
  
  

• 1983 -- 24mm f2.8 Pentax on the Pentax Auto 110 Super​

  
  Multi-element, interchangeable, focusing SLR lens with various close-up lenses. "It was a breakthrough design and for the general photographer, all the subminiature he or she would need in a lifetime. In fact, even the sophistcated viewer cannot tell whether the enlargement was from a 35mm or a 110."
  
  

• 1987 -- 30mm f5.0 Xenagon on the Robot SC​

  
  Fixed aperture lens stopping focusing down to 31 inches. "The Robot SC was tested under a variety of conditions and with a number of different emulsions and found to be a star performer."

no examples of pics taken with these cameras showing the lens quality? No sale…. For me photography is all about seeing is believing.

 

[Huss]

Huss, i've seen that you test many mini format cameras,
i wanted to know what is , in your opinion, the sharpest
among Pentax 110, Minolta 16, Rollei .
I'm now trying to resume my Meopta Microma 16mm but
i have to find a way to cut in a stable simple way the strips of 16 mm from a
normal 35 mm film.

I did a lot of research when I was looking to get into 110, and picked the Rollei A110 and the Pentax Auto 110 as having the best lenses. All the pics I have posted on this thread have been taken by those two cameras.

Out of the Rollei and the Pentax, I favor the Rollei only because it has that spy camera vibe and I prefer the zone focusing w symbols in the VF instead of using a split image screen which for me just seems to take longer as I keep adjusting it to get the “best” focus. The Pentax is easier to advance the film with the 2stroke wind lever compared to the Rollei which is a one time push pull action with a slippery body!


Rollei A110







Pentax Auto 110

 

[xya]

Anyone shot the MEC 16 SB?

I have two of them, but I’ve never gotten around to procuring some suitable film for them.
On paper they look like possibly the greatest 16mm still camera ever.

View attachment 308297

f2 6 element Heligon. 30mm min focus. 1000th of a second max shutter. TTL selenium metering.

It’s quite hard to find example shots online, done with fine grain film and scanned well.

I’d think it would shine with Ektachrome and… yeah, what fine grained black and white film is actually available in 16mm?
Apart from Foma that is.

The build in filter slot and the fast lens begs for shooting IR. Any kind of Aviphot like film available in 16mm?

Yes I have used this camera, and yes, it's the best that I know of. You need the 2 cassettes, they are Identical. The camera needs perforations for film advance. You can use single perf film if the perfs are towards the bottom of the camera, the camera opens from the bottom and lies on its top if taken out. The film is easy to load, but try to limit yourself to 16 or 20 exposures. Longer film strips may jam.

Have a look at my page in case of... https://www.subcompactcam.com/16mm_mec_16_sb.htm

 

[Huss]

Yes I have used this camera, and yes, it's the best that I know of. You need the 2 cassettes, they are Identical. The camera needs perforations for film advance. You can use single perf film if the perfs are towards the bottom of the camera, the camera opens from the bottom and lies on its top if taken out. The film is easy to load, but try to limit yourself to 16 or 20 exposures. Longer film strips may jam.

Have a look at my page in case of... https://www.subcompactcam.com/16mm_mec_16_sb.htm

No photos taken with the camera?

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

No guacamole goes unphotographed...

Steky II, 25mm w/ +3 diopter
Vision3 500T, ECN-2

Mamiya 16 De Luxe, closest focus
Vision3 500T, ECN-2

Steky II, 25mm w/ +3 diopter (multiple exposures)
Vision3 500T, ECN-2

I think the Steky is the only submini I've got that will allow for multiple-exposures. Those 2 frames were 5 or so exposures each while moving the camera (not the lime!).

 

[Helge]

Yes I have used this camera, and yes, it's the best that I know of. You need the 2 cassettes, they are Identical. The camera needs perforations for film advance. You can use single perf film if the perfs are towards the bottom of the camera, the camera opens from the bottom and lies on its top if taken out. The film is easy to load, but try to limit yourself to 16 or 20 exposures. Longer film strips may jam.

Have a look at my page in case of... https://www.subcompactcam.com/16mm_mec_16_sb.htm

I have a bunch of cassettes, so no problem there.
Do you know of any good example photos?
What film do you use?
Does it take single perf?

 

[xkaes]

I think the Steky is the only submini I've got that will allow for multiple-exposures.

You should check out 17.5mm cameras. I can't think of ONE that DOESN'T allow for multiple exposures.

http://www.subclub.org/shop/175mm.htm

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

Ebay is full of Minolta 16 but almost all without cartridge,
at least here in Europe.

The two late model Minoltas I purchased on ebay (MG-s & QT) both had a film cassette/cart inside that wasn't mentioned by the seller. It doesn't hurt to ask them to check if you find a camera in otherwise working order.

There is at least one source of 3D printed cassettes for purchase, but printing your own for a minolta or any other camera is a possibility. I have a pair of the 3D printed ones; they are more prone to light leaks and more resistant to tape adhesion than an original cassette but can work well when used with care.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

Mamiya 16 De Luxe (1/200s @ f16)
Vision 3 500T unfiltered daylight, E-6 style color reversal; D-19 1st developer, ECP-2 2nd/color developer
Uncorrected positive scan

Uhhhh.... I'm a bit stunned by this TBH. The positives are still too blue even through the ECN-2 integral orange mask. If you filter for daylight (or shoot daylight balanced stock) this process probably produces balanced positives through the integral mask

 

[Cholentpot]

I finished a roll of 16mm Tri-X reloaded in a Fling. I'll get the photos up at some point when I develop. No clue how light tight the whole thing was because it was a reloaded cart. I did shove it back in the cardboard box that it came in for maybe a little more protection. Fun little thing to use. Kodak would make a bundle selling these things now at $20 a pop.

 

[Huss]

Rollei A110, can't remember what film I used....

 

[Huss]

I finished a roll of 16mm Tri-X reloaded in a Fling. I'll get the photos up at some point when I develop. No clue how light tight the whole thing was because it was a reloaded cart. I did shove it back in the cardboard box that it came in for maybe a little more protection. Fun little thing to use. Kodak would make a bundle selling these things now at $20 a pop.

When I tested my Fling by reloading it with a fresh 110 cartridge, the results were surprisingly satisfactory. I didn't put it back into the box, just shot it au naturelle which looked real weird as it was basically a 110 film cartridge with a lens attached!

 

[Sergey Ko]

Veniamin 3y3m_s1 by Sergey Kozlov, on Flickr

Taken with soviet 16mm reflex camera Narzis (Нарцисс)
Kodak Microfilm ESTAR base + Glicin HUBL developer 1:75 22C 10min
The best films for small format photography is ADOX-20 & Spur
Also the technical Kodak & Fuji films are exellent
I have only a few photos in 16mm format, but a lot of Minox 8x11. Although this is off topic of the post, you can see them here:

Flickr Search — “8x11”

www.flickr.com

 

[Cholentpot]

When I tested my Fling by reloading it with a fresh 110 cartridge, the results were surprisingly satisfactory. I didn't put it back into the box, just shot it au naturelle which looked real weird as it was basically a 110 film cartridge with a lens attached!

Reloaded 110 carts are a different matter - altogether -

You need to slit the seams open and it's not a perfect click back together.

 

[Cholentpot]

Veniamin 3y3m_s1 by Sergey Kozlov, on Flickr

Taken with soviet 16mm reflex camera Narzis (Нарцисс)
Kodak Microfilm ESTAR base + Glicin HUBL developer 1:75 22C 10min
The best films for small format photography is ADOX-20 & Spur
Also the technical Kodak & Fuji films are exellent
I have only a few photos in 16mm format, but a lot of Minox 8x11. Although this is off topic of the post, you can see them here:

Flickr Search — “8x11”

www.flickr.com

очень хорошо! Very nice Serg!

 

[Huss]

Reloaded 110 carts are a different matter - altogether -

You need to slit the seams open and it's not a perfect click back together.

Yup, there seems to be big chance of leaks with that!

 

[Huss]

Rollei A110

 

[Cholentpot]

Yup, there seems to be big chance of leaks with that!

Paper backing does mitigate it a little but not much.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

Pinholes galore from Orca 100 this time; the first through a Canon 110ED 20. It might just be this camera, but I had to destroy the cartridge to get the film onto a reel. The film advance ratchets the spool so tightly (or something) I was unable to withdrawal the film from the take-up chamber.

Pyrocat-MC 1+1+100 12'

Mamiya 16 De Luxe
Vision 3 500T unfiltered daylight, E-6 style color reversal; D-19 1st developer, ECP-2 2nd/color developer

Vision3 processed in this way seems to behave like a slide film with very durable highlights, although these frames are mostly underexposed. The scans don't really do justice to how these look in person. You'd never know there was an orange mask in the film. It's no ektachrome, but damn is it close.

 

[Huss]

Pinholes galore from Orca 100 this time; the first through a Canon 110ED 20. It might just be this camera, but I had to destroy the cartridge to get the film onto a reel. The film advance ratchets the spool so tightly (or something) I was unable to withdrawal the film from the take-up chamber.

Pyrocat-MC 1+1+100 12'
View attachment 308498

Mamiya 16 De Luxe
Vision 3 500T unfiltered daylight, E-6 style color reversal; D-19 1st developer, ECP-2 2nd/color developer
View attachment 308499

Vision3 processed in this way seems to behave like a slide film with very durable highlights, although these frames are mostly underexposed. The scans don't really do justice to how these look in person. You'd never know there was an orange mask in the film. It's no ektachrome, but damn is it close.

View attachment 308500

Love those "chromes"!